Can ideas be held accountable?

[Falvlun]

We can trace effects back to causes, but I don't think that the concept of "accountability" works unless we're talking about people.

But we talk of "bad" and "good" ideas all the time.

Does no one here really think that some concepts are inherently more dangerous, or more beneficial, than others?

 

[Storm]

But we talk of "bad" and "good" ideas all the time.

Does no one here really think that some concepts are inherently more dangerous, or more beneficial, than others?

That's criticism, not accountability.

The latter implies agency.

 

[Thief]

no...


there is a difference between a troll and someone who doesn't put up with insults by turning it into a form of entertainment. but some can't see it that way because of the shallow assumptions they make of others...rather than just staying on topic.

So turning a discussion into entertainment...you stay on topic?
And the focus of the topic is entertainment?

And this helps you to be accountable for what you say?

I thought the topic here was....accountability.
Should we...and we do...hold others accountable?

No time in your life...you have never heard the words?....
"Who's bright idea was this?!"

 

[Falvlun]

I like the comparison of guns with ideas, because both are potential weapons.

Ideas clearly cannot be held responsible directly, in the sense that a person espousing them can. The apportioning of blame between people and ideas, for atrocities that result from said people acting on said ideas, is a labor of Hercules.

The argument can be made that without the idea, the person would not have acted as they did.

Yet the argument can also be made that a person inclined to commit certain acts would find ideas to so motivate them.

When you bring in atrocities committed on a grand scale, such as the Nazi Regime's Holocaust, you're throwing additional ingredients into the pot. The ideas espoused by Hitler were spread to so many, not solely [or perhaps even primarily] on their own merits or because all of those people were inclined to embrace them, but because of Hitler's charisma.

Ideas are one branch of a virus; take out that branch, and you have a good chance of killing the virus.
In short, I believe that ideas are partially responsible for the actions of those who embrace them; they are not necessarily protagonists or antagonists, but they play important supporting roles.

my bolding
I think bain hit it on the head. Obviously, beliefs cannot do anything by themselves, but they are certainly tools, implements which aid in the creation of action.

 

[waitasec]

So turning a discussion into entertainment...you stay on topic

And the focus of the topic is entertainment?

And this helps you to be accountable for what you say?

the topic has been flushed down the toilet by that point
because one person decided to assume the intent of the other person...

so yes by turning the discussion into a form of entertainment tells the one who assumed the intent that they are being held accountable for assuming intent...


edit:
curious,

I thought the topic here was....accountability.
Should we...and we do...hold others accountable?

No time in your life...you have never heard the words?....
"Who's bright idea was this?!"?

are you of the opinion that ideas are new?

 

[Thief]

the topic has been flushed down the toilet by that point
because one person decided to assume the intent of the other person...

so yes by turning the discussion into a form of entertainment tells the one who assumed the intent that they are being held accountable for assuming intent...


edit:
curious,


are you of the opinion that ideas are new?

Well, since you're asking....

Accountability cannot be avoided.
"Who's idea was this?"...can be answered by reading your banner.

What was that about intent?
No consequence for what we post?

 

[waitasec]

Well, since you're asking....

Accountability cannot be avoided.
"Who's idea was this?"...can be answered by reading your banner.

What was that about intent?
No consequence for what we post?

whom ever decided to assume the opponents intent for mentioning the idea is the one held accountable for derailing ...
why not just stick to discussing the idea?

 

[Thief]

whom ever decided to assume the opponents intent for mentioning the idea is the one held accountable for derailing ...
why not just stick to discussing the idea?

Why not drop the trophy hunt?
Why not sharpen your intent?

 

[waitasec]

Why not drop the trophy hunt?
Why not sharpen your intent?

who are you to judge that of others?


the point of discussing an idea IS to sharpen different aspects of oneself...

savvy?

 

[Thief]

who are you to judge that of others?


the point of discussing an idea IS to sharpen different aspects of oneself...

savvy?

So you DO understand....

 

[waitasec]

So you DO understand....

did you assume i didn't?

 

[Thief]

did you assume i didn't?

Did not assume anything.

You made a long winded effort to promote topic and rhetoric.
Refusing to allow note of intent.
As if it's not about 'you'...just the topic

THEN you say..."to sharpen aspects of oneself".

So it is about...'you'....and your intent.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't think ideas can be held accountable for anything. That kind of logic encourages book burning and ignorance.

While I tend to agree with you, many people have idea's that contain plans to cause great harm.

They go to jail for these ideas so they are held accountable.

 

[waitasec]

Did not assume anything.

yes you did...
the statement was implicit..

You made a long winded effort to promote topic and rhetoric.
Refusing to allow note of intent.
As if it's not about 'you'...just the topic

watch it now you're defeating your own argument

THEN you say..."to sharpen aspects of oneself".

So it is about...'you'....and your intent.

how can one know what they don't know, exactly?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

While I tend to agree with you, many people have idea's that contain plans to cause great harm.

They go to jail for these ideas so they are held accountable.

Ideas hold no power without a desire to spread or act on them in some way...I've certainly had ideas that if acted on would land me in prison...

 

[waitasec]

the day we can figure out how to hold a moonbeam in our hands is the day we can hold ideas accountable..

 

[Falvlun]

That's criticism, not accountability.

The latter implies agency.

But what is the criticism saying? If we say that an idea is dangerous, don't we mean that not just as a criticism of the concept, but also as a statement of the likely effects such a concept will have?

And I don't think accountability necessarily implies agency. I see it as more of a cause-and-effect relationship. We can say the the moon is responsible for the tides, even though the moon is not self-aware.

Humans ultimately choose whether to utilize various tools available to them, but certain tools are inherently more dangerous-- or more likely to result in a nasty outcome-- than others.

the day we can figure out how to hold a moonbeam in our hands is the day we can hold ideas accountable..

If the moonbeam can be shown to cause an action, or to be involved in the bringing about of it, I don't see why the moonbeam couldn't be implicated any less than an idea could be.

 

[Storm]

OK, I see where you're coming from.

 

[waitasec]

If the moonbeam can be shown to cause an action, or to be involved in the bringing about of it, I don't see why the moonbeam couldn't be implicated any less than an idea could be.

a moonbeam reflects light intentionally?

 

[Nichole_R]

Yes, because ideas can change the mindset and thoughts of a person. Like it or not, once an idea (particularly wrong and harmful ones) takes hold, some action will be produced: doing something and/or not doing something, saying something and/or not saying something.