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Can Mysticism Serve as an Alternative to Religion?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
katiafish
consciousness incarnate
Perhaps all sentient beings, specifically human. :rainbow1:
Troublemane
Well-Known Member
You'd have to package it in some marketable fashion, like write a book about Da Vinci, make some kind of conspiracy involving the Church, and include all the research from a book like "Holy Blood Holy Grail". Now thats just crazy enough to work!:angel2:
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Hi katiafish, here is little piece that may be relevant.
There seem to two kinds of searchers, those who seek to make their temporary ego something other than it is, i.e. enlightened, holy, happy, unselfish, eternal (as though you could make a fish unfish), and those who understand that all such attempts are just examples of foolishness, "positive thinking", imagination, play-acting.
The wise dis-identify themselves with the ego, by realizing its unreality through becoming aware of their eternal identity with pure being.
- Fingers Pointing Toward the Moon by Wei Wu Wei
I have to differ with you on this one. Most people are not going to have an experience of enlightenment just because you tell them to.
ManTimeForgot
Temporally Challenged
I do not think the pertinent question is whether mysticism is able to replace religion (I am fairly confidant the answer is yes), but whether it is a viable replacement for religion.
The vast majority of people are not able to see beyond their doorstep let alone conceive of worlds light years away or the depths space within the human psyche (or soul...). I cannot be pressed to be speak for others because that would be hubris to attribute one reason or another to all humans, but I cannot conceive of how mysticism could replace religion for most people as many (for whatever reason) are not able to practice it.
So the people here may chide atotalstranger for his seeming disdain (perhaps actual) for organized religious practices, but the hard honest truth is that he is largely correct. For not only does religion defend us from the experience of God, religion also defends us from the experience of a remote and distant universe devoid of connections for those who are not able to see those connections. Religion tells people what is right, so that they do not have to search for it. For mysticism to be "practiced" by the vast majority of people one would have to codify mysticism in such a way as to be no longer mysticism as I understand the practice to be.
Some day humanity will advance their knowledge of psychology, mysticism, and philosophy to the point that we can create some sort of "unified" personal theory of humans (hopefully a unified external theory and unified everything theory as well), but that day is not today, and as such I think religion is still necessary...
MTF
The vast majority of people are not able to see beyond their doorstep let alone conceive of worlds light years away or the depths space within the human psyche (or soul...). I cannot be pressed to be speak for others because that would be hubris to attribute one reason or another to all humans, but I cannot conceive of how mysticism could replace religion for most people as many (for whatever reason) are not able to practice it.
So the people here may chide atotalstranger for his seeming disdain (perhaps actual) for organized religious practices, but the hard honest truth is that he is largely correct. For not only does religion defend us from the experience of God, religion also defends us from the experience of a remote and distant universe devoid of connections for those who are not able to see those connections. Religion tells people what is right, so that they do not have to search for it. For mysticism to be "practiced" by the vast majority of people one would have to codify mysticism in such a way as to be no longer mysticism as I understand the practice to be.
Some day humanity will advance their knowledge of psychology, mysticism, and philosophy to the point that we can create some sort of "unified" personal theory of humans (hopefully a unified external theory and unified everything theory as well), but that day is not today, and as such I think religion is still necessary...
MTF
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Oh, I'm not claiming that they'll have an experience of enlightenment, just that they think they did.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
why do we need a "unified theory"?
If we had one, wouldn't that negate everything? Wouldnt it be like saying:
"I have it! the answer, I need do no more"
I need do no more....
I need do no more....
This is almost akin to the silly notion of science conquoring death
imo...
I see what you're saying. I imagine there's some truth to that.
ManTimeForgot
Temporally Challenged
A unified theory which explains the properties of the human psyche? That gives us a roadmap; it doesn't put us at the destination. And just because you have a theory doesn't mean that it is complete (theories are never finished).
And why is delaying or even preventing death a "silly" notion? Advanced growth and reproduction during early years predisposes a species towards evolutionary advancement. But there is no reason to suppose that DNA has to break down over time other than through mutation (which can be subsequently repaired). Consider; that our life spans could have been 50 years at the latest instead of 110. Why is that? Its all rather arbitrary once you think about it. So science may not conquer "death" in the abstract, but once you consider life for a million years you realize that functionally speaking death is conquered because it is a choice about when not if.
MTF
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
not prevention of death, conquering death, so that it no longer exists
a silly notion for many reasons...
but it pays many bills for the right person...
........
Light and Darkness, life and death, right and left, are brothers of one another. They are inseparable. Because of this neither are the good good, nor evil evil, nor is life life, nor death death. For this reason each one will dissolve into its earliest origin. But those who are exalted above the world are indissoluble, eternal.
--Gosp of Philip
Luminakisharblaze
Doyamo Luminachi
Mysticism is spirituality not religion. The difference in the two is that spirituality is personal and religion is public.
Raymond Sigrist
raymond sigrist
Yes, and also in mysticism one does not have to believe anything. It can be an experience, not an ideology.
linwood
Well-Known Member
No I don`t think so.
My understanding of mysticism tells me it is far too much work and personal introspection for the average Joe SixPack to ever attempt.
A main point of religion is the ability to let someone else do your thinking for you.
Most people don`t have the personal fortitude to form their own ideas/opinions they`d rather latch onto those of some religion or ideology or something.
Much easier.
Luminakisharblaze
Doyamo Luminachi
Your understanding is right on the mark. It takes no less than a quest for truth, absolute truth from the moment of birth. (possibly before) You have to question everything until there are no holes in what you discover and then it still takes that point of true enlightenment and the period of ascension until you fully understand what it is you were seeking in the first place. Most people do not have the mental capacity to handle how big the 'big picture' is. It is gargantumagnanimous (and I still don't think that is a big enough word for how big it is)
unk:
mystic64
nolonger active
Well, Lord Jesus is quoted to have said that we should go to our closet to pray and that the Holy Spirit will guide and teach you which technically is promoting a mystic reality. In Christianity that didn't happen . Can mysticism serve as an alturnative religion? Sure , why not? Lord Jesus thought that it could .
Guys, I found this topic in the similar threads listing and if one is a mystic the posts in this topic are worth reading. They are both interesting and fun.
. Can mysticism serve as an alturnative religion? Sure , why not? Lord Jesus thought that it could .Guys, I found this topic in the similar threads listing and if one is a mystic the posts in this topic are worth reading. They are both interesting and fun.
Jeremy Taylor
Active Member
There may be a few individuals who are able to truly achieve enlightenment today without some kind of religious tradition and spiritual order to draw from, but it will be very few. Most people need the support of a religious and imaginal tradition, and of a spiritual master. Most people need the discipline, spiritual support, and guarantee they are on a viable path.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The very word religion is derived from the Latin root 'ligio' meaning to tie, to bond, to connect, and prefix 're' meaning again.....so the concept 'religion' means to reunite, similar in meaning to the Sanskrit 'yoga'.....union. So while most religious institutions are apostate and have lost the key to the very purpose of religion, it is possible for anyone to realize enlightenment by any practice that leads to becoming one with the underlying unity of existence....
Jeremy Taylor
Active Member
The question, of course, is which practices can legitimately lead to that today. I'm sceptical that anyone who doesn't enter a proper religious tradition, observe it devoutly, and seek a spiritual master and mystic initiation/path/order will succeed in reaching enlightenment. Indeed, I would think that a non-mystic follower of a traditional faith would be spiritually better off, given the discipline, rites, and imaginal world they provide, than someone who tried to develop a highly idiosyncratic mystical path, with a few exceptions.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I'm not disagreeing generally....but I suggest it depends on the meaning one gives to mysticism....the way I understand mysticism is that it is the culmination of religious practice... Anyone practicing orthodox religion will, if their heart is true, eventually be led into mysticism from within....that is where the true master is realized..