Can one be a liberal Muslim?

[internationalist]

Salam,

Let's say a guy believes in liberal values (gay rights, pro-choice etc.). He doesn't follow rules or rituals (like praying, meditating), but believes in God (and in the prophets).

Is he considered Muslim?

Thanks,
I

 

[Gharib]

The Importance of Prayer

To Muslims, prayer is the second pillar in Islam, after the Shahadah, which encompasses the foundation of Islam. It was made obligatory for all Muslims, whether they be rich or poor, strong or weak, black or white, male or female.

Prayer is the only ascension for the true believer, it distinguishes a believer from a non-believer and allows the believer to enrich their spirituality and cultivate the soul’s right to love and worship the creator ALLAH who is the only one worthy of worship.

The importance of prayer is conveyed constantly in the Quran and is stressed by the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w): “Know that among your duties, prayer is foremost”

to read more go here Prayer: The second pillar of Islam - The Importance of Prayer

The Prophet said in this regard: ” The first thing that will be judged among a person’s deeds on the Day of Resurrection is the prayer. If that is in good order, he will pass the test and prosper, and if that is defective, he will fail the test and will be a loser.(Tirmidhi)

Abdullah bin Amr bin al-As said that the Prophet mentioned prayer one day saying: “If anyone keeps to it, it will be a light,evidence, and salvation for him on the Day of Resurrection; but if anyone does not keep to it, it will not be for him light,evidence, or salvation; and on the Day of Resurrection,he will be associated with Qarun, Pharaoh, Haman, and Ubayy bin Khalaf(a great enemy of Islam from among the Quraish). (Ahmed,Darimi,and Baihaqi)

hope that answers your question, Allah knows best.

 

[sandandfoam]

Salam,

Let's say a guy believes in liberal values (gay rights, pro-choice etc.). He doesn't follow rules or rituals (like praying, meditating), but believes in God (and in the prophets).

Is he considered Muslim?

Thanks,
I

You almost describe me
I do pray and meditate. Not as well or often as I should. But I do.

 

[beenie]

Salam,

Let's say a guy believes in liberal values (gay rights, pro-choice etc.). He doesn't follow rules or rituals (like praying, meditating), but believes in God (and in the prophets).

Is he considered Muslim?

Thanks,
I

Only God knows who He will and won't consider a "Muslim".
While ritual prayer is very important (as eselam pointed out), intention and good deeds are incredibly important as well. Anyone can consider themselves anything, really. Islam is really between the person and Allah, no one else, and no "labels".

Belief in "liberal values" has no bearing on whether they're Muslim or not. In other words, yes...it's OK to have some liberal leanings and still be Muslim.

 

[Gharib]

The Qur'an and Homosexuality:

There are five references in the Qur'an which have been cited as referring to gay and lesbian behavior. Some obviously deal with effeminate men and "masculine women." The two main references to homosexual behavior are:

"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

"What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk." Qur'an 26:165

Both references relate to gay sexual activities; lesbian practices are not mentioned in the Qur'an.

to read more go here: Islam and Homosexuality

to believe in gay rights means to contradict the qur'an itself let alone the sunnah. one who contradicts the qur'an cannot be a muslim.

Allah knows best

 

[Badran]

Salam,

Let's say a guy believes in liberal values (gay rights, pro-choice etc.). He doesn't follow rules or rituals (like praying, meditating), but believes in God (and in the prophets).

Is he considered Muslim?

Thanks,
I

Depends on what you mean by considered. In other words, depending on considered by whom.

God? Who knows, but my opinion, yes he is considered a Muslim by god if his intentions are clear regardless of what you're talking about, liberal values or not (not that i see anything wrong with liberal values, just generalizing what i'm saying).

Muslims? Depends obviously on which Muslim you're asking. Some will consider him a Muslim and some will not.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I know plenty of liberal Muslims here in my vicinity.

Of course, I also live in Canada. We just smack of liberal society in general, lol.

 

[A-ManESL]

As others have pointed out, it is for God to judge ultimately who is what. Quran 22:17 says in effect that ultimately God will judge everyone, regardless of everything. But as per agreement of all virtually a majority of the Muslim scholars/leaders (Amman message) if one believes in the basic tenets he qualifies to be a Muslim. The full statement regarding this in the Amman message runs as follows:

Whosoever is an adherent to one of the four Sunni schools (Mathahib) of Islamic jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i and Hanbali), the two Shi’i schools of Islamic jurisprudence (Ja`fari and Zaydi), the Ibadi school of Islamic jurisprudence and the Thahiri school of Islamic jurisprudence, is a Muslim. Declaring that person an apostate is impossible and impermissible. Verily his (or her) blood, honour, and property are inviolable. Moreover, in accordance with the Shaykh Al-Azhar’s fatwa, it is neither possible nor permissible to declare whosoever subscribes to the Ash`ari creed or whoever practices real Tasawwuf (Sufism) an apostate. Likewise, it is neither possible nor permissible to declare whosoever subscribes to true Salafi thought an apostate.

Equally, it is neither possible nor permissible to declare as apostates any other group of Muslims who believes in God, Glorified and Exalted be He, and His Messenger (may peace and blessings be upon him), the pillars of faith (Iman), and the five pillars of Islam, and does not deny any necessarily self-evident tenet of religion.

 

[SageTree]

Check out Muslims for Progressive Values.

 

[khanyy]

Hi Internationalist,

Salam,

Let's say a guy believes in liberal values (gay rights, pro-choice etc.). He doesn't follow rules or rituals (like praying, meditating), but believes in God (and in the prophets).

Is he considered Muslim?

Thanks,
I

The best way for me to answer this is with proof from the Quran without which being a Muslim would be nigh on impossible...

The Gay bit

[Pickthal 29:29] For come ye not in unto males, and cut ye not the road (for travellers), and commit ye not abomination in your meetings? But the answer of his folk was only that they said: Bring Allah's doom upon us if thou art a truthteller!

Are you Gay? If not then you haven't gone against the Quran now supporting them would be an act of treason almost, as this may encourage it, however these people (homosexuals) shouldn't be treated like they are there should be some way of understanding why they choose this life BUT not supporting it (there is a rumour Lut's wife was killed for this reason not confirmed though).

Doesn't follow Rules/Rituals???

Dont quite get that, thats like saying i want to work for Sony (example) but dont want to sign a contract or follow their COC (code of conduct).

Which begs the question are you confused on what belief is?

BTW you would still be a Muslim everyone one who 'submits' is (remember this is a submission to Allah NOT to Muhammed PBUH or desires or anything else), When one completely submits they become a Mo-Minoon or Believer.

Salaam

 

[Alulu]

According to classical sunni theology you would still be considered a Muslim.
Although practicing homosexuality or advocating it is a huge sin according to the sunni understanding, it does not put one out of the fold of Islam. If i understand right your not advocating homosexuality but probably share the opinion that it is something between two individuals and others or a state should not in any way interfere.

Prayer, the five times a day ritual for Muslims, is considered to be an absolute pillar of Islam.
After being Muslim and the testification of it (shahada) prayer is next.
Classical sunni position is that someone who does not pray is a huge sinner (fasiq) but as long as he rrecognizes the obligation of prayer he is still a Muslim. The idea behind it is that the obligation of prayer is so evident and abundant in the Quran and authentically transmitted traditions that denying it (the obligation) is tantamount to distorting and disbelieving in a fundamental aspect of the Quran itself. Whereas the central theme in the Quran is to find God by pondering over His Creation and reconnect with Him. And in this reconnecting prayer comes in.

According to my info you can be a Muslim. What the Muslim community however might think of your ideas is different and depends on the people, their values etc etc.

 

[internationalist]

Thanks, everyone, for the help. Are there any Sufi resources on meditation, something in-depth and helpful for beginners?

 

[A-ManESL]

I believe the way is first through the shariat (although it depends on how you interpret its intricacies). Initially condition and surrender your basic nafs (egoistic desires), offer the five canonical prayers, and do supplication, and do basic tenets e.g. charity. This is the beginning.

Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti said: “For the seekers the first way is the shariat (Islamic laws). When the seekers on the way are devoted followers of the shariat and carry out the commands of the shariat and do not even diverse to the amount of a particle of dust from the way, then they reach tariqat (the path of Sufism). When they are consistent in that degree and follow the way of the people who have done this before them and do not for a moment transgress, then they reach the degree of ma’refat (gnosis, inner knowledge of God) and when they recognise and understand the importance of this place then light will be generated in them. If they are consistent in this degree then they go over to the fourth degree, that is the degree of haqiqat (the realisation of the Truth).

You may also read this book. It has an in depth explanation of the ideas of Sufism.

Regards

 

[Alulu]

Thanks, everyone, for the help. Are there any Sufi resources on meditation, something in-depth and helpful for beginners?

For Sufi sources on meditation try to google om "tafakkur" (contemplation) and "dhikr/zikr" (rhythmically remembering God). These two concepts are very important in Sufism and if you google on it in-depth I am sure you will find what your looking for. In general sufi's often schedule their day to contemplate on the Creation and therefore Majesty of the Creator Himself. And also (silently or loudly) remember God by chanting one of His many names.

About tafakkur it said that one moment of contemplation equals a 1000 prayers. And obviously in the Quran verses can be found where the believers are described as contemplating on Creation and praising God for it.

About dhikr/zikr it is mentioned in the Quran that that is "where the heart finds rest in". And if a believer "remembers Me, I remember in". This is in general where from a theoretical point of view Sufis get their motivation from to practice it in their daily life. Added to the five daily ritual prayers of course. Therefore many Sufi paths have a litany (wird) that is read daily by their followers after one of the five prayers. To increase devotion, spiritual benefits and especially to come closer to God. Such a litany is called wird/awraad-plural or wazifa. Often "dhikr/zikr" (to remember God) is incorporated in it. This can be by sitting alone on a prayer rug and mentioning "Allah" inwardly a thousand times, of for 20 minutes. Or "there is no god but Allah".

Try googling on some Arabic terms I mentioned above and you will find plenty of information.

 

[muslim-]

No. But close. "Pro-choice" also depends on the details on when the abortion is done. I think Muslims are more lenient on this than George Bush. Giving 40 days or so.

As for "gay-rights" believing in such would be a nullifier of Islam. As its clearly rejecting Quranic teachings on a matter in which theres a consensus. The rights they have upon society is the right to spend money on research to understand what causes it and cures it, instead of just condemning while some of them are born that way.

As for not praying (as in performing salat, not just supplication/dua), not praying or practicing AT ALL, is also a nullifier of Islam. If one belives in something, he/she practices it.

But if one say, skips prayers due to laziness, but prays from time to time, here its a different issue.

 

[muslim-]

According to classical sunni theology you would still be considered a Muslim..

I think you misunderstood the question on the part of homosexuality. Its not about "sinning" , as that doesnt take one out of the folds of Islam (in agreement here). But believing it is legitimate and permissable, certainly does.

 

[Badran]

I think you misunderstood the question on the part of homosexuality. Its not about "sinning" , as that doesnt take one out of the folds of Islam (in agreement here). But believing it is legitimate and permissable, certainly does.

Indeed, unless the person thinks so out of a misunderstanding right? That is, he doesn't think that the Quran says otherwise yet supports it anyway, but rather think the quran doesn't oppose supporting (regardless of whether or not you think its actually possible for that to happen, but just take it as a hypothetical). Would you agree?

That said, you misunderstood the OPs question, at least in terms of what liberal values mean. Supporting gay rights doesn't mean thinking its legitimate and permissible, it means accepting that people have a right to engage in such things or not. In other words, "its up to them" so to speak, which would include allowing them to marry while not recognizing that marriage yourself.

 

[muslim-]

Indeed, unless the person thinks so out of a misunderstanding right? That is, he doesn't think that the Quran says otherwise yet supports it anyway, but rather think the quran doesn't oppose supporting (regardless of whether or not you think its actually possible for that to happen, but just take it as a hypothetical). Would you agree?

That said, you misunderstood the OPs question, at least in terms of what liberal values mean. Supporting gay rights doesn't mean thinking its legitimate and permissible, it means accepting that people have a right to engage in such things or not. In other words, "its up to them" so to speak, which would include allowing them to marry while not recognizing that marriage yourself.

Up to them behind closed doors and not announcing it? Wouldnt accepting their "right" to announce it be a basic liberal value? Especially that the question seems to be liberal values in the US because of the mentioning of abortion issues. (normally associated with democrats).

However the question you mention about marriage is a pure legal one (if you dont recognize the marriage yourself). If you dont recognize the marriage I wouldnt think that would be liberal values as percieved in the US (Think San Francisco or Berkeley liberals just hearing that).

Moreover, im not sure if one who doesn't recognize the marriage would be for allowing it. It might happen to be the position of some, but for sure they wouldnt believe in judging by the laws of God to begin with, which leads to a whole other issue.

But generally speaking.. can one be "liberal" and Muslim? Although a vague general question that can mean many different things, id say yes providing that they recognize the authority of Qur'aan and Sunnah. And if theres any conflict, Qur'aan and Sunnah come first and are never to be flat out rejected.

In the end the question is somehow vague, hence the different understandings on our part.

Finally, yes I agree with the hypothetical you mention in the beginning of your post for sure.

 

[Alulu]

I think I understood the questioner right. There is a difference in your personal religious conviction about homosexuality and what you expect of the state. In Islam (sunni theology) there is not a single doubt that practicing homosexuality is a grave sin and forbidden. This is what all Muslims - in general - agree on and throughout history. What the Muslim expects of the state or his/her views on this is regarding homosexuality is something different and does not nullify your Islam. Therefore a Muslim could personally have a religious conviction that in his din/religion homosexuality (practicing on your feelings) is forbidden. However when talking about the state he could be of the opinion that the state should not interfere in what is happening when two men are together in a room. This is a liberal view as is often understood in the West and as I understood it.

Also, and more important. A Muslim not praying does not nullify Islam. This is sunni theology. I tried to explain the difference from a pure juristic point of view between 1) believing in the obligation of prayer as is obvious from Quran verses and 2) not praying out of laziness, neglecting it and whatever reason but still holding it to be an obligation. Such a person, and many (younger) Muslims are like this, is still considered a Muslim. Note: this is all from the point of Islamic jurisprudence. All the jurisprudence aside, often concluded by scholars who also differ among themselves, Allah know's best and these things are first and foremost between an invididual and his/her Creator.

 

[Badran]

Up to them behind closed doors and not announcing it? Wouldnt accepting their "right" to announce it be a basic liberal value? Especially that the question seems to be liberal values in the US because of the mentioning of abortion issues. (normally associated with democrats).

However the question you mention about marriage is a pure legal one (if you dont recognize the marriage yourself). If you dont recognize the marriage I wouldnt think that would be liberal values as percieved in the US (Think San Francisco or Berkeley liberals just hearing that).

Moreover, im not sure if one who doesn't recognize the marriage would be for allowing it. It might happen to be the position of some, but for sure they wouldnt believe in judging by the laws of God to begin with, which leads to a whole other issue.

I guess its possible the word liberal has connotations i'm not aware of, but i agree mostly with what you're saying, especially considering the next part of your quote.

The one thing i hold a different view on is regarding applying god's law, that is, i'm one of the people who don't recognize the marriage but allow for applying it legally. Although it seems that i wouldn't believe in judging by god's law then, i actually do, its a little complicated. Basically i don't consider any commandment in the Quran to be a law. There are teachings and there are laws, i distinguish between them based on whether or not its made clear that its a law (if not then i consider it a teaching), and based on whether its something concerned with society or a personal choice, or matter.

But generally speaking.. can one be "liberal" and Muslim? Although a vague general question that can mean many different things, id say yes providing that they recognize the authority of Qur'aan and Sunnah. And if theres any conflict, Qur'aan and Sunnah come first and are never to be flat out rejected.

In the end the question is somehow vague, hence the different understandings on our part.

Finally, yes I agree with the hypothetical you mention in the beginning of your post for sure.

I agree, except for the Sunnah part (that is i don't consider Quranists as not Muslims), but thats a different topic altogether. In essence though, i agree with you.