Sapiens
Polymathematician
Really ... have you bothered to try to link to your references? Two are unavailable and one is an archive dating to 2003.
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Can Randomness and Chance cause the Evolution of life?
- Thread starter shunyadragon
- Start date
AManCalledHorse
If you build it they will come
And even though you want to ignore it we share many things with mice and cats. Funny how you seem to want to avoid that.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Don't be foolish, Chromosome 2 fusion proves that humans are the Third Chimpanzee, more distant relationships to other mammals is a different topic.
AManCalledHorse
If you build it they will come
They work fine for me. Go to the link I'm provided and try from there.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
I did.
AManCalledHorse
If you build it they will come
The third? What is the second? Can you show this common ancestor? Have a fossil of it? Didn't think so. Its what we think, not what we know.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Chimp, Bonobo, Human.
We know that the human line split off the chimp line as the result of the fusion of two chromosomes. All evidence supports this, none argues against it. It is now put up or shut up time. If you have evidence that argues against the fusion of two chromosomes, now is the time to put it on the table or to admit that you haven't a clue.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, but first you must demonstrate that you are able to interpret evidence properly. If you can't be honest there is no point.
That is why I asked you a simple question. So far you are failing.
If a person is bound and determined to ignore the evidence then no amount of evidence will convince that person.
So can you be honest? As of yet you have shown that honesty is beyond your abilities in this discussion. Answer the question.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It was just as good as the reference that you used.
Please note I gave a more than reasonable criterion. Peer reviewed articles in well respected professional journals. If you can't find any that support you then you are merely relying on ignorant fools. When a scientist is serious about his claims he publishes his ideas in a peer reviewed journal. If he can't pass peer review and avoids it that tells you even he knows that he is wrong. I refuted your article by using a source that is just as good, if not better than the one that you used.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, my thread was shut down due to people that would not respond honestly. I would not let them get away with that. I was perhaps a bit rude in dealing with their dishonesty. I have been more than polite with you. I have not made any negative comments about you that were clearly not true as you just did. You used a bogus resource. When I pointed that out you demanded that I refute your post. I did so with a source that was just as good. I could easily find better ones, but since you used a poor resource I did the same.
I see from your later posts that I was correct in demanding that you demonstrate that you understood the concept of evidence. You clearly do not. I will gladly discuss the nature of evidence with you. We can do so without bringing up evolution. I am betting that you are too afraid to even learn what is and what is not evidence.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The first link does not work. It will not load. It seems to be a site based problem. Your second link does not link to any specific article. The page does not have such an article that I can see. The third page gives me a warning from my anti-virus. Your sources are 0 for 3. Care to try again?
Here is the proper way to debate. First you must find an unbiased source, preferably. In this matter even USA Today is an unbiased source. Second your source must have its work based upon peer reviewed science articles that you can at the very least link to. Yours failed in this regard.
Tell me, did you even check out the links that you posted? I usually do that. It avoids massive embarrassment at times. At least none of them led to porn sites. You were safe in that regard here.
Google is your friend.
norman borlaug - Google Search
Actually its a billion people who would already be dead from starvation. Thanks to Boraug and his genetic manipulation of plants to create what is now known as the green revolution they are alive and thriving.
GMO, is as good or as bad as whoever is doing the genetic manipulation. Thanks to that one man the benefits of GMO have far outweighed the downside.
But i wouldnt expect you to research your poor assertions
Do you consider that a counterargument to the theory of evolution, or to the claim that all extant apes are related through a last common ancestral ape? Our commonalities with other creatures are predicted and explained by the theory. The more we have in common with them, the more recently their and our last common ancestor lived.
Human chromosome 2 is smoking gun evidence for human from non-human ape evolution.Others can show you the evidence, but they can't make you understand it. Like most creationists, you demand evidence, which has no effect on you.
Let's trade roles for a minute so that you can see yourself.
I'm going to make the claim that evolution as Darwin described it is a fact. I'm going to claim to believe that because I read it in an ancient text of myths, not because of any fossils or genetic evidence.
I don't need it to believe. I require no supporting evidence to believe this claim because I'm a faith based thinker and don't use evidence to draw conclusions. My belief, whether true or not, is unsupported except by my desire to believe it.
Now, I'm going to demand that you provide evidence to prove your position beyond doubt, the obvious implication being that I a require evidence to believe, which you know is untrue, and that I will not budge from it without that compelling evidence.
So, you link me to an article like the one on human chromosome 2, and I begin talking about mice and cats, indicating that either I didn't look at it or didn't understand what I was looking at.
Then I tell you that you haven't proven anything to me, the implication being that you have no argument because I wasn't convinced.
This is where we are at with all of the creationists asking for evidence. It's always pointless to provide it.
I will take that chance, thank you very much.
It was basically correct. It just lacked the information from the findings since - which, granted, is no small attainment in and of itself.
Yep. I know a bit of biology.
Boy, you are waaay off-track.
Audie
Veteran Member
Knowing a bit of biology can make such a difference!
james bond
Well-Known Member
I'm asking you and would like an answer just like creation scientists provide atheist scientists. Don't you know?
Where do these starving people live and what have they said about Norman Borlaug? How do you know a billion people would be dead already from starvation? The article I read said millions, not billions. What company did he work for and when? And do you practice what you preach and blindly eat GMO foods, drinks and take their medicine?
Plenty of people like me against GMO foods and think the evidence has been manipulated by agi business and rammed through without proper testing and studies. Why aren't GMO labeled as such. It's in all our foods in the US. Yet, the EU and Russia still ban GMO foods, and Africa-centre for biosecurity in Johannesburg called for government investigation and ban on all GM-foods, blaming the crop failure on Monsanto's genetically-manipulated technology (Tyson and Cargill, too). Canada, China and Japan restrict GMO imports. Why don't you believe us? Is is blind faith on mutation and atheist science? Mutation has negative effects, too. I try to eat organic, the way foods used to be grown, every chance I can. I want to live past 100 years and not die of cancer in my sixties.
"Opponents say any claimed benefits of GM foods are unproven, and cite the lack of safety studies and the real and potential dangers to human health and the environment as reasons to ban the products."
...
"The rise in autoimmune diseases, infertility, gastrointestinal problems and chronic diseases may be associated with the introduction of GM foods. In a position paper by the American Academy of Environmental Medicine, the authors ask all physicians to consider the role of GM foods in the nation’s health crisis, and advise their patients to avoid all GM foods whenever possible. The Academy also recommends a moratorium on GM seeds and calls for immediate independent safety testing and the labeling of all food items containing genetically modified products. As of 2010, the U.S. does not require food manufacturers to identify foodstuffs produced with genetically modified crops."
Furthermore, why did Monsanto patent its seeds? They have been acting like Nazis against the independent farmers. Their failure in South Africa have caused food shortages.
Monsanto GM-corn harvest fails massively in South Africa
Bottom line. I will remain skeptical of what atheist science promotes when it is ready to dominate world food markets. Please show everyone your evidence and I hope atheists practice what you and they preach. Eat and drink it like GMO is a scientific breakthrough that will help people throughout the world.
Borlaug was often called "the father of the Green Revolution",[5][6] and is credited with saving over a billion people worldwide from starvation.
Norman Borlaug - Wikipedia
I am not here to learn for you, there is non point in even trying, if you want to educate yourself that's up to you.
Bottom line, you will remain ignorant because you refuse to educate yourself
Fyi i will not eat gm food, nor allow my children to do so. However, it does have benefits for drought and disease resistance... And saving lives.
What has where they live got to do with it?
james bond
Well-Known Member
You mean you know atheist biology.
So are your common ancestor a rat-like creature, too? It sounds appropriate.
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...estor-of-every-human-bat-cat-whale-and-mouse/
EDIT: One of the reasons creation scientist's bariminology is taking so long is categorizing and scoring all the different baramins. It seems atheist science beat creation science to the punch with their scoring of "the skeleton of 86 different species according to more than 4,500 anatomical traits." I don't think it's inclusive, but still impressive. It's baramins vs species.
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james bond
Well-Known Member
You are such a HYPOCRITE!!! And you expect me to believe you. I don't know which are GM foods, so I'm sure I've been exposed already. Probably, I'm wearing clothes using GM cotton.
I don't think you can answer my questions because you don't really believe in what your preach. Your admission that you and your kids do not eat GM foods attests to it. I've lost all respect for you!!! You may as well have evolved from a rat and chimp.
Borlaug didn't save a billion people. However, I did find Borlaug died of cancer. He lived to 95, so he probably ate organic food when he was growing up. I hope he practiced what he preached and ate GM foods and not a hypocrite like you.
To the contrary, I have educated myself. I think GMO is evidence for Satan since you believe his lies. Monsanto and DuPont are evil companies. Did Borlaug work for them?
Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? - Modern Farmer
11 Quick Reasons to Dislike DuPont as Much as Monsanto
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I noticed that same sentence. I'm just glad they were honest with it. That must be the "concrete evidence" they meant!