He's an atheist. So why he point them to God.
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Can satan love?
- Thread starter questfortruth
- Start date
He's an atheist. So why he point them to God.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Satan's not an atheist. He knows God is real.
Who cares? He killed zero people, while God, who allegedly loves us, killed a gargantuan number of people, including women, children, the elders and all.
So, I would start considering if it is not better to not be loved.
Ciao
- viole
74x12
Well-Known Member
Isn't satan responsible for all death if he is the one who got Adam and Eve to eat the tree of knowledge? Yes.
What's the proof of this if you mind me asking? Is it same true of all demons, or when they see Prophets (a) doing miracles think they are possessed or sorcerers?
There is a hadith from Imam Musa Al-Kadhim (a) that says the first to become an atheist, was Iblis.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Logically, he can love himself, love hatred, love so many things.
Satan in the arabic language means rebellious deviation. In principle, he (if its the being) loves rebellious deviation.
Being one of the most if not the most, cunning creatures, he has tricked himself into rebellion beyond repair. He's the hero he tells himself. We will save ourselves from hell, I just need more forces, and learn what heaven know and we will defeat them. But deep inside, he knows that God is real. When people disbelieve in unseen world, Angels, and deny the God of Prophets in that sense, and become materialistic completely, he says, you are lost and doesn't take responsibility that his rebellious spirit and call to "self-choosing" made them lost. He fears the God of the Prophets because he seen their power, but he doesn't submit or believe.
When people embrace his spirit and his minions take over them it's really when are seeking a way to escape God's judgment and light, and be what we choose to be, as opposed to embracing how God wants us to be.
This all stemming from the enjoyment of his dark self. The "I" we become, is his spirit and rooted in him, when we disobey God.
74x12
Well-Known Member
In the Bible (James 2:19) it says that the devils believe there is one God.
Also it doesn't make sense to me that an angel from heaven would not know God exists. If Satan fell from heaven then he had to have known and probably even seen God.
What you say is true, but self-deception can rebel no matter how clear the vision was. He can trick himself and lie to himself about what he witnessed. Take for example, what Quran says would happen to disbelievers asking for Angels from Mohammad (s) if God would open them a portal to heavens/sky. They would accuse Mohammad (s) of doing sorcery upon them and not embrace the Angelic vision of Mohammad (s) opened through doors of light to him. They would say their vision has been enchanted by sorcery rather then embrace heaven and accept the light of God.
God is unseen, not even the highest seers of God actually see his full unseen essence. So signs of God and God and belief is linked. We know God through his unseen signs, which includes his light or lights, but we can't directly access God. God is the light of all light, but we don't see his full self and essence, is what I mean, but from another perspective, he guides to his essence by his essence.
Also, I know they believe but they lie to themselves. Iblis ran in the Battle of Badr after promising he would show up, and the human forces of his outnumber Mohammad's (s) and Ali's (a) forces 1000 to 1. The 313 defeated them and Iblis broke his promise. However, this type of trembling from God doesn't mean he believes in God. He still lies to himself the power in Prophets is sorcery that stems from those in power in start. He will never embrace God's signs and God is only known through his light and holy spirit.
Since demons fear the holy spirit but disbelieve in it, they are in cognitive dissonance. But they lie to themselves they can overcome God or what they see is order of the universe.
They are trying to gain and increase magic powers, they and sorcerers. They will never match God's forces.
Since demons fear the holy spirit but disbelieve in it, they are in cognitive dissonance. But they lie to themselves they can overcome God or what they see is order of the universe.
They are trying to gain and increase magic powers, they and sorcerers. They will never match God's forces.
No love, no hell. So what you say is true for disbelievers. But the reward for believers is great out of his love and appreciation just as the punishment is severe on the rebellious.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
As much or as little as any other fictional character.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Yes, God is the real monster of the Bible. After reading the Bible from cover to cover several times, it seems to me that Satan is just another cosmic pawn in God's twisted and miserably failed plan for the world. Apparently, God decided he needed an evil nemesis to have p***ing contests with, so he used Satan to fulfill his egotistical need to prove himself to be the Big Kahuna of heaven. The poor devil never stood a chance. If you've read the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, then you will know that God is cruel, sadistic, and psychopathic, and he's killed people with impunity. He's certainly not the loving, merciful heavenly father that Christians claim he is.
Gargovic Malkav
Well-Known Member
Doesn't the Quran show though, that Iblis knew God, and that his issue was with Adam, and not with God per se?
IThoughtAboutIt
Member
Isn’t God responsible for all death if he is the one who stood there and watched Adam and Eve eat of the tree? If he was omniscient he knew exactly what was happening. If he is omnipotent he had complete power to stop it. If he is omnibenevolent he would put good over freewill. Conclusion, god didn’t do his job from day one!
74x12
Well-Known Member
And what job does God have? I think God does whatever he wants right? Does God really have a duty or responsibility?
I think yes ... God did purposefully allow death to exist.
Why would he put "good" over free will though? I think that to God "free will" is the only thing that makes good exist. You know if we humans want to be actual creators ourselves; then we have to have free will. We cannot possibly create something ourselves; if we're just wind up toys. So God made us real autonomous beings.
So I think that is why God allowed evil to exist. So that not just he could be good; but we could be good too. Because God wants children that are like he is. We can choose good only because we could also choose evil.
So the purpose and aim of creaton was always because God was alone. We see he made Adam alone at first as well. This was symbolic of God being alone. We also see that Adam even looked for a companion among all the animals first as if they could fit his requirements. But he did not find any until God made Eve. So even though animals are neat they aren't cognitively able to be a real companion for Adam. And robots without free will would never do for God either.
I think Quran shows that due to his arrogance towards Adam, he became a disbeliever. You can't believe God is wrong about Adam, and so his arguing with God has to be introduced as sarcasm and arguing with the veils of light that were speaking on behalf of God to be wrong and that their God is made up.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Satan loved himself but he’s gone.
Reminds me of the cartoon Pepe LePew (amorous French skunk who finds hapless kitties to love). Example, street striper accidentally paints a white line down the back of a black cat, making Pepe believe that it is a female skunk. The poor cat keeps squirming out of Pepe's embrace.
In a similar vein, we would be squirming out of the amorous embrace of Satan, trying desperately to get away.
The cartoon, Southpark, portrayed Satan as Gay. This is because the Religious Right made a big deal of the Gay lifestyle being inconsistent with their religion. So, Southpark assumed that Satan embodied all things that God would hate, including making Satan Gay.
I would imagine that Satan loves all good things.
Puritans, on the other hand, felt that merriment, laughter, dance, books, etc., are evil.
I would think that Satan rules by being more permissive.