Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Desert Snake]

Do you consider baptized in Jesus name only as not legit?by Qkonn

Yes. As stated in Matthew, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Thanks

Couple of thoughts here.
I've read that the ''original'' way to do it is just by Jesus's name. /haven't researched this/
and, I'm not sure why it would make a difference.

 

[Unification]

Hi Unification,

It may be said that way as metaphor, but not literally is inside you. If God is residing in us, we don’t say that we are also a God.

As Jesus said in John 14:16-18,
16. "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever,
17. "even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
18. "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

The Holy Spirit is the one who will guide us in all truth; he will help us from understanding the word of God. The case of the Old Testament is differed on how God spoke to them.

Heb. 1:1-2
1. God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets.
2. has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

I don’t clearly understand you question about sacrifice. I know that Jesus Christ sacrificed His life for us on the cross to save us from the penalty of sin.

Rom. 8:34
34. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Eph. 1:20
20. which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

I will study the tabernacle of God through the Bible using my mind and guidance of the Holy Spirit to comprehend. I don't fuzz about light and energy.

Thanks

I was once where you are, friend.

If I may suggest, if you want to still see Jesus as a literal guy, and as the bible as the word of God... Perhaps maybe Jesus sacrificed something valuable and became that helper/Holy Spirit. Just a suggestion.

From the foundations of the world, and yet again as a literal guy.

John 21:25, truth comes in many ways, many revealings within someone, within their minds... There is no end to learning and seeking and expanding oneself spiritually/consciously.

Thanks, and best wishes on your journey.

 

[Unification]

For any "Christian" seeking to grow,

http://www.hallvworthington.com

 

[Unification]

If the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and God is not subject to time, and all scripture was breathed out by God, it would be safe to conclude that scripture is not a historical book and time doesn't apply to scripture. It would be spiritual language, and not common human language. Placing scripture as historical, would subject God to be constrained by time.

What has been proven and revealed as truth, and to deny the truth would be to deny Jesus... Is that the bible is not a historical book, and said events never took place as literal history. This is hard to grasp for most, but denying oneself also comes with denying the knowledge of what one thinks they know and starting with a clear, clean, and open mind and allowing what is inside of one to teach. (Their better judgement/higher mind) Not only is this difficult to grasp, one is fearful and tends to panic at the thought/idea that the masses have been wrong, and to go against the masses leads to judgement, banishment, loss and sacrifice of ones life for the real truth. One becomes afraid that the truth goes against their own perceived truth. Our devil/beast(ego mind) will fight to hold on at all costs. No one needs to teach anyone or follow anyone for liberation, liberation is hidden within oneself. One can always help guide someone, plant mind seeds/mind children but they cannot change someone. Internal growth comes elsewhere. Scripture is mythological language, with deeper meaning. It would be what the characters, countries, cities, and everything represent; not their literal, historical, or traditional/fundamental view.

If a pastor/priest/etc. Has been teaching something for a period of time, and they became aware that they have been teaching lies... That pastor/priest/etc. Will do whatever it takes to justify what they've always taught... If not they will lose their credibility and pride gets in the way, they will lose their flock and their flocks trust, perhaps their tithe money of making God a career instead of a way of being. Doing the will of man becomes more important than doing the will of God.

Traditionalist and fundamentalist scholars, philosophers, and scientists are no different. Pride and their own credibility trumps truth.

The mind(temple) needs to be destroyed and rebuilt.

One needs to know the knower before one can know knowledge, before one can be set free from the systems of control ravishing and conditioning our minds and societies. . that spreads divide and lies.

 

[ether-ore]

I was talking to a Lutheran Pastor the other day and he said God provided the greatest gift when he offered himself up as Jesus on the cross. But from what I read in the Bible, when Jesus was on the cross, he spoke to God in heaven. How then can he be God at the same time? Please explain. Thanks

If by "Trinity" is meant the concept of three-in-one, I can't explain it since it makes no sense to me either. My understanding of the "God Head" is outlined in our first article of faith: "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." These are three distinct beings whose unity consists in their being one in purpose.

When Jesus Christ came to John the Baptist to be baptized; when Christ came up out of the water, there was Jesus standing there, God the Father whose voice was heard speaking out of heaven and saying: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17), and of course the Holy Ghost (who is a spirit) was present in the form of a dove. All three, separate and distinct beings, present at that event.

You are correct to point out that Christ on several occasions prayed to God the Father. It does seem a bit absurd that anyone could believe that Jesus was praying to Himself. But more importantly, Jesus always said that He came not to do His own will, but the will of Him that had sent Him meaning God the Father. And too, Christ told the disciples that He would "send" the comforter (the Holy Ghost) to them in His absents.

The Holy Ghost who is a spirit, testifies with a still small voice (like a very light and warm whisper) to our spirits of Jesus Christ and God the Father are real. The fact that you asked this question suggests that He is trying to whisper to you.

 

[moorea944]

The Godhead should be a simple fact. It is explained in 1 Cor 11v3. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." God is the head of Christ. Very simple language. Jesus is not God and is not co-equal. God is the Father and God of Jesus. This is not a "mystery" or confusing.

 

[ether-ore]

The Godhead should be a simple fact. It is explained in 1 Cor 11v3. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." God is the head of Christ. Very simple language. Jesus is not God and is not co-equal. God is the Father and God of Jesus. This is not a "mystery" or confusing.

There are multiple references in scripture which should be consulted. The Jews of Christ's day wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be equal with God... John 5:18: "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, [in their mind] but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. God the Father is the head of Jesus Christ but as John also says in chapter 1 verse 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus Christ] was God. God is a title of power and authority, not a name It applies to God the Father, God the Son and Gold the Holy Ghost.

 

[moorea944]

There are multiple references in scripture which should be consulted. The Jews of Christ's day wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be equal with God... John 5:18: "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, [in their mind] but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. God the Father is the head of Jesus Christ but as John also says in chapter 1 verse 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus Christ] was God. God is a title of power and authority, not a name It applies to God the Father, God the Son and Gold the Holy Ghost.

The Jews thought that Jesus was saying that, but he wasnt. He never told anyone that he was equal with his Father. Ever. And the "word" in John 1 is not Jesus, it is the word of God. "Logos". That means someone's thoughts, plans, reasons. It is the world of God. Then in verse 14, it talks about Jesus. And then.....

 

[ether-ore]

The Jews thought that Jesus was saying that, but he wasnt. He never told anyone that he was equal with his Father. Ever. And the "word" in John 1 is not Jesus, it is the word of God. "Logos". That means someone's thoughts, plans, reasons. It is the world of God. Then in verse 14, it talks about Jesus. And then.....

John 1:14: "And the "Word" was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) [the Son, Jesus Christ] full of grace and truth."... based on this verse which is John's direct reference to Jesus Christ, I think your interpretation is inaccurate. So, going back to John 1:1, we have: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

[moorea944]

John 1:14: "And the "Word" was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) [the Son, Jesus Christ] full of grace and truth."... based on this verse which is John's direct reference to Jesus Christ, I think your interpretation is inaccurate. So, going back to John 1:1, we have: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Actually it's not. God's Word, His plans, reasons and thoughts. God's spoken Word, is now flesh. In Greek the word "word" is logos. It is not talking about Jesus directly, it is talking about God's word. In the beginning, God said..... That is what it is talking about. You believe in the trinity, so you making it that way to fit your beliefs.

We know that Jesus is not God, firstly, that doesnt even make sense for one.. Scripture tells us that God is the God and father of Jesus. That makes more sense when you really think about it. You also have to remember the trinity is man-made and nothing to do with scripture at all. In the beginning was the Word. Yes, I agree with that. God's Word was in the beginning. Simple...

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

if the word is God's plans, reasons, and thoughts, why can't the Spirit be God's spirit or life force or power? A few posts back said that the Holy Ghost is a spirit but God is a spirit and God is holy so God is the Holy Spirit, not some separate being. And if the Word was with God in the beginning, doesn't that make four instead of three? Father , Son, Holy Spirit, and Word

 

[ether-ore]

Actually it's not. God's Word, His plans, reasons and thoughts. God's spoken Word, is now flesh. In Greek the word "word" is logos. It is not talking about Jesus directly, it is talking about God's word. In the beginning, God said..... That is what it is talking about. You believe in the trinity, so you making it that way to fit your beliefs.

We know that Jesus is not God, firstly, that doesnt even make sense for one.. Scripture tells us that God is the God and father of Jesus. That makes more sense when you really think about it. You also have to remember the trinity is man-made and nothing to do with scripture at all. In the beginning was the Word. Yes, I agree with that. God's Word was in the beginning. Simple...

Well, I disagree. You accuse me of attempting to wrest scripture; trying to make it fit what I believe. I believe that is exactly what you are doing. I'm quoting scripture, while you are hung up on the word "logos". So, we are at an impasse. I think you are ignoring Matthew 3:16,17: (KJV)
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
This is the description given by Matthew... All three, separate and distinct beings are present at that event. I prefer to accept that description at face value rather than to try an focus on one word [logos] which is being interpreted contrary to that witnessed report. I have quoted several scriptures which are germane to the issue while you ignore scripture, placing all of your emphasis on equating "logos" with "word".
So, again... we are at an impasse and will just have to disagree.

 

[moorea944]

Well, I disagree. You accuse me of attempting to wrest scripture; trying to make it fit what I believe. I believe that is exactly what you are doing. I'm quoting scripture, while you are hung up on the word "logos". So, we are at an impasse. I think you are ignoring Matthew 3:16,17: (KJV)
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
This is the description given by Matthew... All three, separate and distinct beings are present at that event. I prefer to accept that description at face value rather than to try an focus on one word [logos] which is being interpreted contrary to that witnessed report. I have quoted several scriptures which are germane to the issue while you ignore scripture, placing all of your emphasis on equating "logos" with "word".
So, again... we are at an impasse and will just have to disagree.

All three, separate and distinct beings are present at that event.

Where are you possibly getting three people out of these verses?? This is why I stated that your bringing in your beliefs into the bible. ....
I see God and His son Jesus. That's all. Who is the third? The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the power of God. God's Spirit, His power, His wisdom. And it descended upon His son.

I have quoted several scriptures which are germane to the issue while you ignore scripture, placing all of your emphasis on equating "logos" with "word".

I dont ignore scripture at all, and I dont place all of my emphasis on Logos. I'm just saying that what it means for John 1, that's all. Which verses I'm I ignoring? Let's talk about it...

 

[ether-ore]

Where are you possibly getting three people out of these verses?? This is why I stated that your bringing in your beliefs into the bible. ....
I see God and His son Jesus. That's all. Who is the third? The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the power of God. God's Spirit, His power, His wisdom. And it descended upon His son.



I dont ignore scripture at all, and I dont place all of my emphasis on Logos. I'm just saying that what it means for John 1, that's all. Which verses I'm I ignoring? Let's talk about it...

You may have noticed that I am LDS. So, the basis for my belief includes more information than just the Bible. But aside from additional scripture (which I am sure you will not recognize), I believe in what Joseph Smith claims to have seen in His first vision. In that vision, God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ appeared to him. This simple act cleared up whether the Father and the Son are separated and distinct. And while you may believe that the Holy Spirit is only the power of God. I believe, on authority of all the scripture we have access to in these latter days, that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit with the ability to dwell in us and testify to us that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Yoshua]

If the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and God is not subject to time, and all scripture was breathed out by God, it would be safe to conclude that scripture is not a historical book and time doesn't apply to scripture. It would be spiritual language, and not common human language. Placing scripture as historical, would subject God to be constrained by time.

What has been proven and revealed as truth, and to deny the truth would be to deny Jesus... Is that the bible is not a historical book, and said events never took place as literal history. This is hard to grasp for most, but denying oneself also comes with denying the knowledge of what one thinks they know and starting with a clear, clean, and open mind and allowing what is inside of one to teach. (Their better judgement/higher mind) Not only is this difficult to grasp, one is fearful and tends to panic at the thought/idea that the masses have been wrong, and to go against the masses leads to judgement, banishment, loss and sacrifice of ones life for the real truth. One becomes afraid that the truth goes against their own perceived truth. Our devil/beast(ego mind) will fight to hold on at all costs. No one needs to teach anyone or follow anyone for liberation, liberation is hidden within oneself. One can always help guide someone, plant mind seeds/mind children but they cannot change someone. Internal growth comes elsewhere. Scripture is mythological language, with deeper meaning. It would be what the characters, countries, cities, and everything represent; not their literal, historical, or traditional/fundamental view.

Did you believe that there is a God? Jesus is the hope of salvation?

If a pastor/priest/etc. Has been teaching something for a period of time, and they became aware that they have been teaching lies... That pastor/priest/etc. Will do whatever it takes to justify what they've always taught... If not they will lose their credibility and pride gets in the way, they will lose their flock and their flocks trust, perhaps their tithe money of making God a career instead of a way of being. Doing the will of man becomes more important than doing the will of God.

Traditionalist and fundamentalist scholars, philosophers, and scientists are no different. Pride and their own credibility trumps truth.

So what do you prefer with man’s spirituality?

The mind(temple) needs to be destroyed and rebuilt.

One needs to know the knower before one can know knowledge, before one can be set free from the systems of control ravishing and conditioning our minds and societies. . that spreads divide and lies.

What will be your basis of control for man’s spirituality?

Thanks

 

[Muffled]

The problem is, if Jesus was god, then god sacrificed himself to atone for sins against his own system of judgement. And they weren't even his own sins. It's like you being hanged for a murder I committed. Even more bizarre, is the notion of a supernatural deity being able to die. It is taught he is from everlasting to everlasting. Not exactly true if somewhere in the middle he ceased to be alive. If he was actually dead in the sense we understand death, then who resurrected him? He could not have......the truly dead do not have any capacity to do anything. Also, if you wish to say it was some sort of "spiritual death or whatever notion you wish, then it was not a real death and therefore not sincere, and not valid.

I believe youare in error in your understanding of atoning sacrifice. The lamb did not sacrifice itself but was sacrificed by the priests.

I believe God is a Spirit and a spirit never dies although the body does.

I doubt people really have a common understanding of death. As I said previously I believe the Spirit never dies so He can resurrect the body and enter it again.

I beleive I wouldn't characterize the death in any way other than what it is.

 

[Muffled]

Are you serious?........

I beleive I am absolutely serious and on solid Biblical ground.

 

[Muffled]

Sacrifices are useless without a god to sacrifice to. So in your estimation what god DID he sacrifice himself to?

I believe He did not sacrifice Himself to Himself. He sacrificed Himself for us. I believe sacrificing Himself for us proves to us that He loves us. It also puts His personal stamp of approval on the idea that God will forgive the penitent.

I believe He did not sacrifice Himself to anyone.

 

[moorea944]

I beleive I am absolutely serious and on solid Biblical ground.

I believe that your serious too.....

 

[Unification]

Hi Unification,

Theological ideologies? what do you think the basis of having non-theological ideologies to prove who Jesus was?

Were did you get the "life force" terminology to attached it--for Jesus?

Thanks

Your life force is the blood and blood plasma that rests within you.