Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[lovemuffin]

Κύριος is Jehovah , κυρίῳ is lord

They are the same word, simply in a different noun case. Κύριος is nominative (the subject of a clause), and κύριῳ is dative. A word in the dative indicates a kind of prepositional phrase, usually with the preposition "to" or "with" (τῳ κυριῳ μου -- to my lord). I think what you are actually referring to is the fact that the Septuagint, the greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures, translated YHWH as "Lord" as a general rule, because it was already the custom of Jews at the time not to pronounce the name. In this case, it creates some possible confusion if you don't know the Hebrew, because the same word is used in two different ways.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Where in the Bible are we commanded to use the name Jehovah?
Jesus said when we talk to God, we should address Him as our Father. That is what Jesus consistently called Him. Not one time did Jesus tell us to call God Jehovah.
God very specifically said,
"This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Why isn't Jesus being listened to by JW's?

Didn't Jesus in his model prayer ( Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2 ) say we should hallow the name of God ?_____ So, wasn't Jesus saying addressing God's name that it should be sanctified, held sacred, hollowed be God's name ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

They are the same word, simply in a different noun case. Κύριος is nominative (the subject of a clause), and κύριῳ is dative. A word in the dative indicates a kind of prepositional phrase, usually with the preposition "to" or "with" (τῳ κυριῳ μου -- to my lord). I think what you are actually referring to is the fact that the Septuagint, the greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures, translated YHWH as "Lord" as a general rule, because it was already the custom of Jews at the time not to pronounce the name. In this case, it creates some possible confusion if you don't know the Hebrew, because the same word is used in two different ways.

Yes, LORD/Lord is the same word.
Please notice Psalm 110:1
In the KJV Bible where LORD is in all upper-case letters is where the Tetragrammaton stands.
The Lord, Not in all upper-case letters, does Not ever stand for the Tetragrammaton YHWH.

 

[katiemygirl]

Didn't Jesus in his model prayer ( Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2 ) say we should hallow the name of God ?_____ So, wasn't Jesus saying addressing God's name that it should be sanctified, held sacred, hollowed be God's name ?

Jesus addressed God as Father, never YHWH.

Hallowed, (hagiazo) means to sanctify, or to be holy.

We could legitimately translate these words, "Holy be Thy name," or "May Thy name be set apart.

There is no command here or anywhere to use the name Jehovah. There is a direct command from Jesus to use the name Father. Jesus called God Father. This is the example Jesus gave to us.

God told us to listen to His Son, His chosen one.

The way we honor God’s name is through our attitude and conduct rather than through simply calling God by His Hebrew name, or by a particular one of His Hebrew names. He had many that He used in the Old Testament.

“The LORD, whose name is Jealous” (Exodus 34:14).

“The LORD, whose name is the God (Elohim) of hosts” (Amos 5:27).

These are identified as names, not just titles.

"In the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” These are the only names that Christ commanded His disciples to baptize members into (Matthew 28:19). Again, Jesus did not use the name “YHWH” for God. Neither does the Bible require the use of YHWH upon one’s conversion.

 

[cataway]

God told us to listen to His Son, His chosen one

ah , so were jesus said

‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
means what ?

 

[jchristopher]

what ?

If you have a question, please ask.

 

[Kolibri]

Jehovah is not used in any extant Greek New Testament manuscript. Adding and taking away from the book of Revelation will bring dire consequences.

Often, albeit not always in the NWT, the use of the divine name found in the Christian Greek Scriptures is hedged in a quote of the Hebrew Scriptures where it clearly was found. Are you willing to acknowledge that at least in these places restoring God's name to it original location would acceptable, perhaps even appropriate?

In the days of Jesus and his apostles, the Tetragrammaton also appeared in Greek translations of the Hebrew Scriptures. In the past, few people disputed that conclusion. Now that copies of the Hebrew Scriptures dating back to the first century have been discovered near Qumran, the point has been proved beyond any doubt.

There is no indication that the loss of use of the divine name had any support in Scripture. However there is an indication that the hiding of the name was a going against Jehovah's will.

"How long will this continue in the heart of the prophets, to prophesy lies? They are prophets of the deceit of their own heart. They intend to make my people forget my name by the dreams they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my mane because of Ba'al." - Jeremiah 23:26,27

What is more there is evidence that early Christian literature contained Jehovah's name but was burned quickly by persecutors.

The Tosefta, a written collection of oral laws that was completed by about 300 C.E., says with regard to Christian writings that were burned on the Sabbath: “The books of the Evangelists and the books of the minim [thought to be Jewish Christians] they do not save from a fire. But they are allowed to burn where they are, they and the references to the Divine Name which are in them.” This same source quotes Rabbi Yosé the Galilean, who lived at the beginning of the second century C.E., as saying that on other days of the week, “one cuts out the references to the Divine Name which are in them [understood to refer to the Christian writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns.”

- A5 The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[jchristopher]

Whoa there.....lets back up a little....

Can I ask you what "the spirits of all mankind who have ever been" are, according to your belief?
The spirit in man is not the same as spirit beings who inhabit the heavenly realm. Man's spirit is the spark of life that is sustained with every breath, keeping the physical organism alive. We have a spiritual side to our nature, because, out of all the creatures on this planet, we alone feel the need to worship our Creator.....but we are mortal humans who were designed to live as material beings forever on earth. This life was not supposed to be a training ground for heaven.

"Jesus is a spirit son of God, just like us"? We are fleshly sons and daughters of God, not "spirit sons". Jesus was "only begotten" long before he was sent into the world to become the Christ. (1 John 4:7-10) The pre-human Jesus was the Word (Logos, spokesman) who was "with God" before all other things were brought into existence. (Col 1:15, 16) He is not God nor is he a part of God. He is "the son of God".

There is no "godhead"...there is "one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor 8:5, 6; John 17:3)


Firstly, there is one God, not three. The Jews were monotheists who did not ever worship a triune God....and Jesus was Jewish. He did not once claim equality with his God, but rather directed all worship to the Father "alone" (Luke 4:8)

There is no "Holy Ghost". There is holy spirit, which is not a person. "Ghost" was a German word (geist, meaning spirit) adopted by trinitarians in an attempt to make God's spirit part of a threesome. The Bible never does.


Huh??
Where did you get that idea? "God is a spirit" (John 4:24) not a being of flesh. Flesh and blood cannot exist in the spirit realm. This is why the ones taken to heaven to rule with Christ need to leave their mortal bodies of flesh behind and be transformed into spirit creatures in order to dwell in the presence of God. (1 Cor 15:50-57)


My goodness....only one part of God doesn't have a body? Really?
Where did you come across these beliefs? I have never heard of this before.



Ah......LDS by any chance?
Sorry, but the Bible does not even hint at such an idea.

Whoa there.....lets back up a little. Why don't you go one question at a time.

 

[katiemygirl]

ah , so were jesus said

‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
means what ?

What does this verse you posted have to do with the JW's claim that we MUST call God by His sacred name?

God is the one who said listen to My Son, My chosen one. Jesus said to call God "Father." JW's do not listen to God's Son. They prefer to listen to Watchtower.

 

[katiemygirl]

Kolibri, post: 4161858, member: 55852"]Often, albeit not always in the NWT, the use of the divine name found in the Christian Greek Scriptures is hedged in a quote of the Hebrew Scriptures where it clearly was found. Are you willing to acknowledge that at least in these places restoring God's name to it original location would acceptable, perhaps even appropriate?

Absolutely Not! The Holy Spirit is the author of the New Testament. If He wanted the name Jehovah included, He would have done so.

In the days of Jesus and his apostles, the Tetragrammaton also appeared in Greek translations of the Hebrew Scriptures. In the past, few people disputed that conclusion. Now that copies of the Hebrew Scriptures dating back to the first century have been discovered near Qumran, the point has been proved beyond any doubt.

The tetragrammation NEVER appeared in the Greek New Testament. The NT is what we're discussing here, not the Greek translation of the OT.

What is more there is evidence that early Christian literature contained Jehovah's name but was burned quickly by persecutors.

You are suggesting an international conspiracy to rid thousands of Greek NT transcripts of the tetragrammation, which is HOGWASH. One could just as easily say that the phrase Jesus is God was removed. That would be just as ridiculous. God promised to preserve His word, and that is what He did. To suggest such a conspiracy undermines the entire New Testament. Not only that, it makes Watchtower look desperate. When all else fails, suggest a conspiracy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Doesn't the word ' father ' mean ' Life Giver ' and Not a personal name ?

The Tetragrammaton YHWH is Not another word for Father or father.

 

[The Real Milk Man]

God very specifically said,

"This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

Acts 3:22-23



Jesus said, ...... "I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

 

[JayJayDee]

Whoa there.....lets back up a little. Why don't you go one question at a time.

I addressed them one at a time. Can you answer them? Take as many posts as you like to do so.....or just say I'm a LDS and we will understand your view so that you don't need to explain anything.

No one can argue with indoctrination (no matter what beliefs we have)....we can only argue with common ground....the Holy Scriptures. If we have a point of contention, it can never be debated by use of the BOM. What is written there is only accepted as scripture by the LDS Church. If you wish to only use the Bible, (that is accepted by "Christians" in general) then we have something to discuss.

 

[Wharton]

ah , so were jesus said

‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
means what ?

In all credible bibles, it's not the tetragrammaton in that verse. It's Lord not LORD. So Jesus is not using the name of God.

And if no one knows the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, why do you even use it?

 

[cataway]

In all credible bibles, it's not the tetragrammaton in that verse. It's Lord not LORD. So Jesus is not using the name of God.

And if no one knows the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, why do you even use it?

then I have some homework for you. find out why all capitals are used in the word LORD .KJV

 

[katiemygirl]

"

URAVIP2ME, post: 4161961, member: 19507"]Doesn't the word ' father ' mean ' Life Giver ' and Not a personal name ?

Does it matter? It is how Jesus addressed God, and it's how He told us to address Him.

The Tetragrammaton YHWH is Not another word for Father or father.

No one suggested it was.

 

[katiemygirl]

Acts 3:22-23
Jesus said, ...... "I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Verse 23 really drives home the point.

And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.

 

[The Real Milk Man]

Unambiguously Hebrews 1:8’s “Thy Throne, O God” cleared all grammatical and semantic interpretations of John chapter 1 as:

Psalm 136:2

 

[The Real Milk Man]

... ,adulterations of the word of God. ...

Jeremiah 8:8

 

[Kolibri]

In all credible bibles, it's not the tetragrammaton in that verse. It's Lord not LORD. So Jesus is not using the name of God.

And if no one knows the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, why do you even use it?

Love the bias for what is credible and what is not.

It is unreasonable to think that Jesus would have purposely switched the Tetragrammation for "Lord" or "God" when he quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures, or even the Greek Septuagint, which the early copies did contain as noted by fragments found. When we consider that he would have a personal memory of what was in the holy writings from his pre-human existence, the existence of the fragments proving that the name was still in use becomes irrelevant, for we know he detested the oral traditions.

"But he answered: 'It is written: "Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah's mouth."'" - Matthew 4:4; De 8:3
"Jesus said to him: 'Again it is written: "You must not put Jehovah your God to the test."'"- Matthew 4:7; De 6:16
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."'" - Matthew 4:10; De 6:12; 10:20