Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[cataway]

Actually, I think you mean that Jesus, like Adam had ability to sin because of being a free agent. Free will did not make Adam unable to sin, but should have restrained him. Love and respect for his Creator should have been enough to stop him from going down a wrong path.

"Sin nature" is what Adam passed onto his children. This is what Jesus came to die for. His death atones for the life that Adam failed to pass on to them.....all they inherited was a propensity to sin that has plagued humankind all through history. God's own people constantly struggled with sinful inclinations that led them away from obedience to God. Their animal sacrifices gained them temporary forgiveness, but Jesus' sacrifice grants forgiveness for all time, provided that we are truly repentant.


Correct. Jesus demonstrated that even under temptation stronger than that with which Adam was tested, he remained faithful and obedient. Why else would the devil have been permitted to test him?



Well, I believe that you are partially right here. Jesus got baptised to demonstrate publicly that he was presenting himself to God to become "Messiah". This is when he became the "Christ" (anointed one.) The Father anointed Jesus with holy spirit, declared before all that this was his son, and empowered him from that day forward with miraculous abilities.

You are correct.....Jesus' baptism was a symbolic death and resurrection, just as all Christians must undergo. We too must die to our former selfish desires and be raised to do the will of God first in our lives.
It is Jesus blood that cleanses us from sin, not our baptism. Our baptism is also a public display to demonstrate before all that we have made a commitment to become a footstep follower of our Master.


This is confusing.......
Could I just get you to demonstrate how the NWT is "custom written" to tell us "that Jesus is God" when we don't believe that he is?

I would really like to see some evidence that the NWT is anything but the most accurate translation in keeping with the original language text. It is free from trinitarian bias and is careful to identify the true God in passages where he got lost in the ambiguous title "LORD".

We went back to the original texts and started from scratch for the simple reason that Christendom's Bible translations are full of bias towards their own doctrines....the very thing they accuse us of doing.

Jesus and his Father are two completely separate individuals who are not equal, and never have been. The holy spirit is not and never has been a third part of a trinity.

 

[Unification]

Actually, I think you mean that Jesus, like Adam had ability to sin because of being a free agent. Free will did not make Adam unable to sin, but should have restrained him. Love and respect for his Creator should have been enough to stop him from going down a wrong path.

"Sin nature" is what Adam passed onto his children. This is what Jesus came to die for. His death atones for the life that Adam failed to pass on to them.....all they inherited was a propensity to sin that has plagued humankind all through history. God's own people constantly struggled with sinful inclinations that led them away from obedience to God. Their animal sacrifices gained them temporary forgiveness, but Jesus' sacrifice grants forgiveness for all time, provided that we are truly repentant.


Correct. Jesus demonstrated that even under temptation stronger than that with which Adam was tested, he remained faithful and obedient. Why else would the devil have been permitted to test him?



Well, I believe that you are partially right here. Jesus got baptised to demonstrate publicly that he was presenting himself to God to become "Messiah". This is when he became the "Christ" (anointed one.) The Father anointed Jesus with holy spirit, declared before all that this was his son, and empowered him from that day forward with miraculous abilities.

You are correct.....Jesus' baptism was a symbolic death and resurrection, just as all Christians must undergo. We too must die to our former selfish desires and be raised to do the will of God first in our lives.
It is Jesus blood that cleanses us from sin, not our baptism. Our baptism is also a public display to demonstrate before all that we have made a commitment to become a footstep follower of our Master.


This is confusing.......
Could I just get you to demonstrate how the NWT is "custom written" to tell us "that Jesus is God" when we don't believe that he is?

I would really like to see some evidence that the NWT is anything but the most accurate translation in keeping with the original language text. It is free from trinitarian bias and is careful to identify the true God in passages where he got lost in the ambiguous title "LORD".

We went back to the original texts and started from scratch for the simple reason that Christendom's Bible translations are full of bias towards their own doctrines....the very thing they accuse us of doing.

Jesus and his Father are two completely separate individuals who are not equal, and never have been. The holy spirit is not and never has been a third part of a trinity.

Teach us biblical things of the spirit, not newborn formula. You're a witness, get onto the spiritual meat....

 

[katiemygirl]

"For although by now you should be teachers,...." - Hebrews 5:12

All students need to know their material enough to teach eventually. In fact it can be said that you really do not know your subject matter until you have had to express it to others.

Oh come now. It did seem a bit pompous, to the point that I laughed out loud. I do agree with what you wrote though. Expressing what you think really helps you to understand your subject matter. It's one of the reasons I'm here. I'm forced to confront what my heart believes is truth. I want to constantly test my beliefs, and I'm not ashamed to say I've been wrong on more than one occasion. The good thing is that when I do believe wrongly, I only have me and my heavenly Father to answer to. I don't have to concern myself with some world organization like Watchtower.

 

[katiemygirl]

is that what you do when you don't have the answer ?

The question wasn't directed to me. I don't even know what it was. I only know your response made me laugh out loud. I'm always happy to answer questions. How about you?

 

[katiemygirl]

as I recall it was a movie

 

[JayJayDee]

Teach us biblical things of the spirit, not newborn formula. You're a witness, get onto the spiritual meat....

What spiritual meat would that be? The kind revealed only to individuals who claim to be taught exclusively by God's spirit? Do you know how many people claim to be enlightened this way? One could believe it was true but for one thing....none speak in agreement, so it's a bit of a lottery to see who has the real communication and who the devil is having a lend of.

The criteria for a Christian is clearly laid out in scripture. None of it is negotiable. And it must be a global group of Christians because God has a "people" to whom he gives the command "get out of her my people" (Rev 18:4, 5)
The apostle Paul also said that we were to meet regularly with fellow believers "and all the more so as we behold the day drawing near". (Heb 10:24, 25) Since the "good news of the kingdom" was to be preached "in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations" before "the end" was to come, (Matt 24:14) Christians must be a global body with a global work to do. How could scattered individuals accomplish what Jesus commanded? (Matt 28:19, 20)

 

[JayJayDee]

If the truth has taught you in Spirit, you would clearly see that Adam, Eve, and the serpent are one individual, and that a true witness of Jehovah is of spirit, not history and earthly, natural wisdom taught by their own carnal mind and other carnal minds controlling mankind.

Yes, of course that is what the scripture says.
One part of that "individual" tempted the other part to also make the third party sin in order to condemn the human race. And then the need to send a savior into the world, which of course is totally meaningless unless the Edenic scenario was true. Are you for real? How on earth do you makes sense of anything?

Genesis is the basis for the rest of scripture.......which you don't appear to treat with any respect. What took place in Genesis is finalised in Revelation. It's your choice to believe whatever you wish, but please don't expect the rest of us to believe it just because you do.

 

[Katzpur]

I have not called you names. My beef is with the Mormon false religion.

Well, for your information, the Mormon religion is not the subject of this thread. I can't help but wonder how you would respond to my posts if you didn't know I was LDS. You might actually attempt to address the issues I raise instead of just attacking my religion. Since you know I'm LDS, you turn every conversation into a nasty rant against Mormonism. And you never do bother answering my questions.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire.

Well, since I currently have over 25,000 posts to my credit, I think it's evident I do just fine in the heat. I do less well tolerating jerks.

My beliefs come under attack every day on this forum. I don't take it personal.

You would respond as I have if I had attacked the founder of your denomination the way you have attacked the founder of mine. You compared him to some of the worst mass murderers who have ever lived. Are you seriously trying to tell me that I shouldn't take this personally? If a Muslim or a Jew compared Jesus Christ to Jim Jones, David Koresh or Charles Manson, would you just sit back and take it in your stride? I doubt it very much. There is a way of debating that doesn't include making intentionally hurtful comments. You ought to try it some time. Learn to make your points without having to fall back on hateful rhetoric.

I don't tell you are hateful, sick or an uninformed excuse for a human being because you don't believe Jesus is God or you don't believe in the trinity.

Well, for your information, I do believe Jesus is God. And no, I don't believe in the Trinity. I'm in good company on that one. Jesus' Apostles didn't believe in the Trinity either.

You have attacked me personally in your above post. If you don't want to read what I have to say, then don't post to me. Put me on ignore. I really don't care either way.

I'm not putting you on ignore. Why would I want to do that? If I don't read what you have to say, I can't very well respond to it, and when you post lies (for example, that Mormons don't believe Jesus is God), I want to make sure to set the record straight.

 

[Nada]

 

[Unification]

Yes, of course that is what the scripture says.
One part of that "individual" tempted the other part to also make the third party sin in order to condemn the human race. And then the need to send a savior into the world, which of course is totally meaningless unless the Edenic scenario was true. Are you for real? How on earth do you makes sense of anything?

Genesis is the basis for the rest of scripture.......which you don't appear to treat with any respect. What took place in Genesis is finalised in Revelation. It's your choice to believe whatever you wish, but please don't expect the rest of us to believe it just because you do.

Let me guess, witnesses have wives submitting to their husbands in everything and wearing coverings during their services, woman created for the man right? There is your just and equally measured and balanced and non respector of persons God. Not understanding that the body is to be in submission to the Spirit. Let me also guess that your jehovah is so weak that he couldn't save anyone himself from sin and had to resolve to brutally torturing a human in which this somehow forgave sins? Mankind punished and screwed because of one man.... There is just. Let me also guess that your sick jehovah needed guts and blood shed from literal animals for temporary atonement because he also could not save anyone himself. And that your jehovah taught incest and murdering children, and slavery. And that your jehovah is capable of making mistakes and had to repent himself because he was imperfect and unjust for creating imperfect humans and then destroying them physically by drowning the world. And that souls burn in torture forever for being created imperfect and your jehovah not having the power to save them. Let me also guess that you'd lose all credibility and would run with your false prophetting sting of your tail between your legs had your conditioned mind be brought to truth, and the control trip and ego and puffed up conceit of yourself and your earthly knowledge would wreck your reputation had the truth come to you. You'd have to lose your life to save it and you'll do anything and everything to justify your lies and claim anyone else a heretic. Another bible scholar with an education taught by himself and man, all in vain, really sorrows me. What a deceitful tragedy. You should flee from that and be taught wisdom and counsel by the one shepherd.

 

[Unification]

What spiritual meat would that be? The kind revealed only to individuals who claim to be taught exclusively by God's spirit? Do you know how many people claim to be enlightened this way? One could believe it was true but for one thing....none speak in agreement, so it's a bit of a lottery to see who has the real communication and who the devil is having a lend of.

The criteria for a Christian is clearly laid out in scripture. None of it is negotiable. And it must be a global group of Christians because God has a "people" to whom he gives the command "get out of her my people" (Rev 18:4, 5)
The apostle Paul also said that we were to meet regularly with fellow believers "and all the more so as we behold the day drawing near". (Heb 10:24, 25) Since the "good news of the kingdom" was to be preached "in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations" before "the end" was to come, (Matt 24:14) Christians must a global body with a global work to do. How could scattered individuals accomplish what Jesus commanded? (Matt 28:19, 20)

For one, you think carnally and earthly with your Matthew and Revelation chapter references. Two, the spiritual body is in perfect oneness with the Lord, and we all know we are joined by Spirit. Three, His will is being accomplished through and in us. Four, Jesus never mentioned anything about Christianity, or Christians.. nor in Revelation. He mentioned "Jews" which are ones inward and spiritual. Mankind has created their own empire of Christianity. Five, you have no idea what you are to flee from. Six, quite frankly it doesn't matter what Paul says.... And they knew what they believed in back then. Not myths and doctrine and man's wisdom and divide and tradition such as today. Seven, those passages you refer to in Matthew speak of "that" generation. Don't apply them to the end of the world, and your own created version of a physical conquering Messiah coming to murder people He created, that's anti-Christ philosophy right there, wouldn't that be carnally picking and making the same mistake as the heritage Jews who expected the same... Even though they weren't responsible because you have no clue what you read. Eight, I could gather with one or two people and call it a gathering in my car, in a ditch, at a park, in prison, in my cabinets, under my bed if we pleased. The whole world is deceived and few are chosen. Lose your conditioned mind, sir.

 

[jchristopher]

God stopped talking audibly to men when the last apostle died. There are no new revelations.

Says who? Have you read 1 Corinthians 14 (King James Translation)? Paul was teaching the general populous of the Church in Corinth about spiritual gifts, particularly the gift of the spirit of prophesy and revelation. He speaks in terms that lead the reader to believe the gifts of prophesy and revelation are indispensable to spiritual learning. The companionship of the Holy Spirit is the spirit of prophesy itself, and heavenly truths are revealed and understood only through that same spirit.

If God spoke to men audibly today as men claim, then why is it each comes away with different teachings?

I believe God does not reveal conflicting doctrines, but that he has a very specific appointed way for revealing, interpreting, teaching and expounding the doctrines of His gospel. That appointed way is for the word of the Lord to come to us through His chosen servants, the prophets, who preside over His church. It must be this way, or, like you said, there would be much confusion.

 

[cataway]

Let me guess, witnesses have wives submitting to their husbands in everything and wearing coverings during their services, woman created for the man right? There is your just and equally measured and balanced and non respector of persons God. Not understanding that the body is to be in submission to the Spirit. Let me also guess that your jehovah is so weak that he couldn't save anyone himself from sin and had to resolve to brutally torturing a human in which this somehow forgave sins? Mankind punished and screwed because of one man.... There is just. Let me also guess that your sick jehovah needed guts and blood shed from literal animals for temporary atonement because he also could not save anyone himself. And that your jehovah taught incest and murdering children, and slavery. And that your jehovah is capable of making mistakes and had to repent himself because he was imperfect and unjust for creating imperfect humans and then destroying them physically by drowning the world. And that souls burn in torture forever for being created imperfect and your jehovah not having the power to save them. Let me also guess that you'd lose all credibility and would run with your false prophetting sting of your tail between your legs had your conditioned mind be brought to truth, and the control trip and ego and puffed up conceit of yourself and your earthly knowledge would wreck your reputation had the truth come to you. You'd have to lose your life to save it and you'll do anything and everything to justify your lies and claim anyone else a heretic. Another bible scholar with an education taught by himself and man, all in vain, really sorrows me. What a deceitful tragedy. You should flee from that and be taught wisdom and counsel by the one shepherd.

your not a very good guesser

 

[jeager106]

Let me guess, witnesses have wives submitting to their husbands in everything and wearing coverings during their services, woman created for the man right? There is your just and equally measured and balanced and non respector of persons God. Not understanding that the body is to be in submission to the Spirit. Let me also guess that your jehovah is so weak that he couldn't save anyone himself from sin and had to resolve to brutally torturing a human in which this somehow forgave sins? Mankind punished and screwed because of one man.... There is just. Let me also guess that your sick jehovah needed guts and blood shed from literal animals for temporary atonement because he also could not save anyone himself. And that your jehovah taught incest and murdering children, and slavery.
Would you please site something so I can have an idea where you learned such and perhaps I can agree or disagree? Thank you.

And that your jehovah is capable of making mistakes and had to repent himself because he was imperfect and unjust for creating imperfect humans and then destroying them physically by drowning the world.
If you please would you explain "repent himself"? I don't quite understand.
With respect to you.

And that souls burn in torture forever for being created imperfect and your jehovah not having the power to save them.
But I thought, am pretty sure, that JayDeeDee, being a J.W. does not subscribe the the false doctrine of a damning hell of any kind.
Correct me if I err. Thank you.

Let me also guess that you'd lose all credibility and would run with your false prophetting sting of your tail between your legs had your conditioned mind be brought to truth, and the control trip and ego and puffed up conceit of yourself and your earthly knowledge would wreck your reputation had the truth come to you.
If you please. Those comments were rude, nasty and beneath your dignity.
I am not a board moderator but I am a human male with sensibilites. Please....

You'd have to lose your life to save it and you'll do anything and everything to justify your lies and claim anyone else a heretic. Another bible scholar with an education taught by himself and man, all in vain, really sorrows me. What a deceitful tragedy. You should flee from that and be taught wisdom and counsel by the one shepherd.

Really. That comment interests me greatly as I am a believer in search of Biblical truths.
Would you please reference your comments that I might study wisdom and counsel by the "one shepard". You caught my interest so please be so kind as to reference where I can get information about this one shepard?

Click to expand please.

 

[sojourner]

You just proved my point. Others, besides Joseph Smith, who thought God spoke to them personally and gave them new revelations are: David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sun Hui East, Ellen White, Charles Manson, Marshall Applegate, L. Ron Hubbard, Sun Myung Moon, David Berg, Warren Jeffs, and so on.

These people all claim that God spoke to them personally and apart from the word of God. The result: CULTS

Or, third possibility: God continues to speak to those who have succeeded the apostles in unbroken line, and we have ended up with the catholic (little "c") church, known in diversity as the Roman, Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran churches (plus some smaller jurisdictions whose names elude me at the moment). These bodies cannot be called "cults," nor can their theology be termed "fringe" or "inauthentic."

 

[JayJayDee]

Click to expand please.

Push the ego buttons and watch what happens.

Hissy fits and spiteful words are the traits of a spiritual infant. Someone with the spirit of the Christ would find a way to answer their antagonist succinctly with the word of God. Jesus simply said "it is written".

"Spiritual oneness with the Lord" would mean that a person possesses the fruitage of the spirit.....Galatians 5:22-23...."But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

No fruits....no spirit.

 

[katiemygirl]

Says who? Have you read 1 Corinthians 14 (King James Translation)? Paul was teaching the general populous of the Church in Corinth about spiritual gifts, particularly the gift of the spirit of prophesy and revelation. He speaks in terms that lead the reader to believe the gifts of prophesy and revelation are indispensable to spiritual learning. The companionship of the Holy Spirit is the spirit of prophesy itself, and heavenly truths are revealed and understood only through that same spirit.



I believe God does not reveal conflicting doctrines, but that he has a very specific appointed way for revealing, interpreting, teaching and expounding the doctrines of His gospel. That appointed way is for the word of the Lord to come to us through His chosen servants, the prophets, who preside over His church. It must be this way, or, like you said, there would be much confusion.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10

 

[katiemygirl]

Or, third possibility: God continues to speak to those who have succeeded the apostles in unbroken line, and we have ended up with the catholic (little "c") church, known in diversity as the Roman, Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran churches (plus some smaller jurisdictions whose names elude me at the moment). These bodies cannot be called "cults," nor can their theology be termed "fringe" or "inauthentic."

1 Cor. 13:8-10

 

[Unification]

Push the ego buttons and watch what happens.

Hissy fits and spiteful words are the traits of a spiritual infant. Someone with the spirit of the Christ would find a way to answer their antagonist succinctly with the word of God. Jesus simply said "it is written".

"Spiritual oneness with the Lord" would mean that a person possesses the fruitage of the spirit.....Galatians 5:22-23...."But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

No fruits....no spirit.

Tough love, pal. No one wants to be held accountable, rebuked. I once believed everything you have. My mission is to show people how to seek the Lord properly and experience and know God, in spirit and truth. Not seek me or yourself, but the one teacher.

 

[Unification]

1 Cor. 13:8-10

At the end of the day, it's all about love and loving others. Purely and genuinely. Charity. Helping those in need. That is glorifying God through you. That is giving to God. Not reading bibles, going to a church building, or trying to call others into their sect. Prophecy and revelation come but in the end, love, peace, unity, and truth are what matters. What's sown to the Spirit is reaped. Many blessings.