Can someone explane something to me

[openmindedone]

I am struggling with belief in a god at the moment. After loosing my father recently and my brother in law it has raised a lot of questions i just cant answer anymore. Like

1.If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer - specifically the hundreds of thousands of children that die every year?
2.How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance? has anyone every come back? or communicated this fact? or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????

I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

 

[Master Vigil]

First off let me say I'm deeply sorry for your losses. With all the love I have, take as much as you need.

Now, to your questions... Well you are dealing with questions that rely on the premise that god is all good. As a taoist, I don't see it this way. In fact, I think it's illogical that god is all good. Firstly, I believe that good and evil are simply subjective concepts that reside only within the mind's perception of the what it is perceiving. And thus, I view Tao as neither good nor evil, but the perfect balance between the two where neither are noticeable. Therefore, anything that is created can be perceived as either good or evil, there is no objectiveness to it. As for the afterlife, I don't see it as important. We live here and now, we should worry about here and now, and realize that whatever happens next, should not be our concern. That's just my opinion.

 

[openmindedone]

ok - but how can i believe there is a god still - if you say in tao that he is balanced where is the balance? i do not see it. Why let 200.000 die in a tsunami or let a child die every 3 seconds due to poverty - where is the leveling point? Surely there are good things - i just cant see them??maybe this is my issue - i only see the bad parts - to me it just seems all one sided and shows me that its the human nature thats actually controlling the world at present...surely i am wrong here...

 

[Rex]

without suffering you won't know what feeling good would be

 

[Majikthise]

Yes a lot of people die, but many are given life too.

 

[Albino]

I am struggling with belief in a god at the moment. After loosing my father recently and my brother in law it has raised a lot of questions i just cant answer anymore. Like

1.If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer - specifically the hundreds of thousands of children that die every year?
2.How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance? has anyone every come back? or communicated this fact? or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????

I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

I know how you feel. My wife and I married 3 years ago, and the day after the wedding my mother-in-law died. Shortly after, my grandfather died, and my wifes grandmother died.

My father-in-law got AIDS from a blood transfusion years ago, and as we speak he is struggling for life as he fights a recent infection in his artificial hip.

Meanwhile, my wife fights bravely to graduate from college, and I fight to keep our heads above water.

I look at it this way: if there isn't a 'higher power', then why be angry? It's like yelling at the wind as it blows your house down.

If there is a 'higher power', then all we know is it doesn't descriminate. Rain falls on the good and the bad people alike. Expect no favoritism from the 'powers that be' and you will never be disappointed.

Either way, there can be acceptance.

 

[Halcyon]

Yes a lot of people die, but many are given life too.

Indeed, far more people are born each day than die.

 

[Master Vigil]

I agree the world is full of suffering. But it is also full of good. I would say yes, you are choosing not to see it, or your experience has made it so that you subconciously won't see it. Tao is not god. Let's get that out, not all gods are like the christian god. Tao is impersonal, without any human characteristics like gender, emotion, etc... All it is, is the first and last cause. It is the force that creates, and destroys. I don't believe in an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent god. So I'm not trying to prove one exists to you. I'm just trying to point out, there are other gods, and other greator forces. Read the Tao Te Ching, or some buddhist texts. Read some pagan myths, or some hindu texts (The upanishads are wonderful). For me, I'm pessimistically optimistic, I always expect the worst, because no matter what happens, I'm satisfied.

 

[No*s]

I am struggling with belief in a god at the moment. After loosing my father recently and my brother in law it has raised a lot of questions i just cant answer anymore. Like

1.If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer - specifically the hundreds of thousands of children that die every year?
2.How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance? has anyone every come back? or communicated this fact? or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????

I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

I'm terribly sorry to hear that. I don't know that I have the answers you need, but I'll try to answer it.

I don't believe humanity was created subject to death and corruption. However, when our parents fell, things changed. We became corruptable and dying. God had granted our parents the ability to choose, and when they chose wrong, He did not remove from them the consequences of that action. As a result, people die. Not just through moral problems like murder or war, but also through natural problems such as disease and famine. Beyond that, i really don't have a "why" that I can give

 

[cardero]

openmindedone writes: If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer

I do not believe that GOD lets people suffer. I do not believe that we need GOD’s assistance to experience suffering.

openmindedone writes: How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance?

You can keep the belief of an afterlife for as long as you desire, there is nothing INCORRECT about believing. There are many publications and examples that can be found that point towards or away from an afterlife if this is something you are interested in researching. Remember you are the final judge of this.

openmindedone writes: or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????

The fear of death is common among many people yet it is a TRUTH to life that we should consider early. Do not place too much caution into it or it could very well impede the ability to really live life.

openmindedone writes: I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

If GOD were to interfere with our lives then it would not be our lives. Some people have chosen to suffer but they do not call it suffering they call it a challenge and there is no shame if you do not overcome it.



I hope you will stay around RF for awhile openmindedone, you have many interesting questions and we have many open minded people within this forum.

 

[openmindedone]

If GOD were to interfere with our lives then it would not be our lives. Some people have chosen to suffer but they do not call it suffering they call it a challenge and there is no shame if you do not overcome

I understand that its our lives and our action make us who we are and result in where we go in life, but..i am loosing my belief in what i always held in my heart that - there was something else to life and that we move onwards after death to that existance...but now i have faced for the first time the loss and pain i find it hard to see and feel the same way.

I have lost a few friends through accidents and it didnt sway my views but this has hit me harder - i try to think like my father in that he was open minded, very spiritual but i feel i am turning to the view that there is nothing else after you die and that we have all have a short time to live on this earth and that lots of things i believed in actually mean jack...

This is leaving the gap in me i feel at present i think...

 

[Unedited]

I remember, a long time ago, I sat in church and I heard our pastor tell the story of a man who couldn't find it in himself to believe fully in God, he had too many questions. So he prayed that God would forgive him and allow him to believe fully in him. He was afraid he'd committed a terrible sin, but God thought he was a great man for admitting what he had. So God said that whenever he questioned his faith, that all he had to do was ask, and God would supply him in some way with a sign that would let the man know he was still there, still watching over him.

So I prayed to God and I asked for a sign. I prayed every Sunday at church that I would be given a sign, because I was so ashamed that I could not accept God. But if a sign came, I never saw it.

I've seen these questions before. The thing to ask yourself is, even if God lets these people suffer, do you still believe in him? I think it's fairly common to go through that line of thinking when something horrible happens to you. I've seen some people come out the other end as good Christians with renewed faith, and I've seen some come out as atheists.

I think the important thing, is to really think and figure out what you believe, and to keep asking questions of yourself and of others. And to keep yourself open to seeing, not just the bad, and not just the good, but everything around you.

 

[oracle]

I am struggling with belief in a god at the moment. After loosing my father recently and my brother in law it has raised a lot of questions i just cant answer anymore. Like

1.If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer - specifically the hundreds of thousands of children that die every year?
2.How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance? has anyone every come back? or communicated this fact? or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????

I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

I would say that this is something you need to answer for yourself, because the answers that others can give you is their own truth and perceptions of the matter. Believing in God ultimately takes faith, because there is no evidense other than existence.

When people suffer in life, I know that they go through a stage where they doubt God's existence. I have been there. Although my beliefs in God have changed do to such questions as you have asked, I still believe that God exists, and that God's existence is manifest throughout all of creation.

There is no purpose for human suffering, but I think we can make a purpose, and that is giving charity to and showing love to those less fortunate. Love and kindness tends to alleviate much suffering.

In an abstract way of looking at it, you need the dark colors in order to paint a picture. Even suffering can be turned into good, It just depends on how we look at the big picture.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Quite honestly, there's really only an issue if believing in Diety brings you joy, comfort or understanding. Although I am a theist, I see no problem with atheism, if you are more drawn to that.

If believing in a loving Diety, though, does help you, then there are dozens of theories about why S/he allows for pain and suffering. Many of them have been noted already, but I just wanted to let you know that atheism is also there, and that there is no badness in choosing to go that route.

 

[openmindedone]

I think thats something i will take from this thread - it does help to hear other views and i have to ask myself some hard questions i think.

I also think the hurt i still feel inside is holding me back and i dont know how to get it out or allow it to leave

- my wife commented the other day that my sons 8yr old best friend is dying of a brain tumour with 4months left to live - my wife was sad and upset as we haev known him since a baby - i just didnt react at all, to which she said i was a bit heartless and didnt care? and she was right - my reaction was heartless and careless - all i said was that it happends in life and we have to move on??? See what i mean???

 

[martha]

I am truly sorry for your losses, my dear. When I lost my father, who raised me, on Christmas Eve many years ago, I hated God and the world. I was in my early twenties. I just couldn't understand. Now I understand a little better. I believe God gave us life and choices. If he constantly interfeared with it then it wouldn't be our life to experience. Think of it like this. If one has a child and the child goes away to live, of course you worry, and your thoughts are with them, but you let them live their life. You let them make their choices and their own mistakes. I thought of something just yesterday, about this very subject. Why doesnt God help all the suffering people, then I thought, well Martha what about you. I have great love for mankind but I don't run around trying to help every situation to change the outcome. I still love humanity, so I do my part as much as I can. Humanity has made the choices for the world. There is quite enough for all to have housing, food, good medical care, and plenty of people to help each other. He gave us this place to dwell as a gift. It is we who make the choices that allow suffering. It is we who down through the ages have made destructive chemicals that poison the waters, the fish, the meat ,the air, the vegetables and our own bodies. I am sorry, but I cannot blame God for the ills of the world.

God loves us with a tremendous love. It is up to each of us to create a better world. This is just my opinion.

By the way there are many wonderful events that happen in the world, and many good people. It is just that the media and apparently scociety prefers the shock value of dwelling on the negative. Why do you think the National Enquirer still exists.I wish someone would produce a totally GOOD NEWS newspaper or have NUTHING BUT GOOD NEWS news hour on a major network. Perhaps our negative view of life could change.

 

[openmindedone]

sorry feathersinhair just seen your post.....

Is it that you believe in yourself - your own destiny and just do the right things through your own life till your heart stops. Does atheism mean you believe there is nothing after you die or that you just beleive there is no such thing as god? or all of the above...

 

[openmindedone]

martha i know your right about letting your children have their experiences but as you say you do your best to help others - i just dont have that feeling at present. I just feel i am numb - no feelings - no beliefs i guess i have to give it time...like and open wound - time to heal and time to reflect after the pain has gone....

 

[oracle]

I think thats something i will take from this thread - it does help to hear other views and i have to ask myself some hard questions i think.

I also think the hurt i still feel inside is holding me back and i dont know how to get it out or allow it to leave

It's all a matter of time. In do time, pain subsides. One way of relieving it, is to express it, whatever it may be people need to vent and let go.

- my wife commented the other day that my sons 8yr old best friend is dying of a brain tumour with 4months left to live - my wife was sad and upset as we haev known him since a baby - i just didnt react at all, to which she said i was a bit heartless and didnt care? and she was right - my reaction was heartless and careless - all i said was that it happends in life and we have to move on??? See what i mean???

It's not necassarily that your reaction was heartless and careless. It's all based on intentions. I see that your reaction is just a way of coping, but the intent is not to disrespect anybody. You are probably caring as a person, it's just something that your wife does not understand. It doesn't mean that you are heartless, only that it has been perceived that way by someone who doesn't know your thoughts or motives.

I don't really mourn when people die. I may have periods of sadness. But you see it's not because I'm heartless. I'm actually a very caring person inside.

 

[cardero]

I understand that its our lives and our action make us who we are and result in where we go in life, but..i am loosing my belief in what i always held in my heart that - there was something else to life and that we move onwards after death to that existance...but now i have faced for the first time the loss and pain i find it hard to see and feel the same way.

I have lost a few friends through accidents and it didnt sway my views but this has hit me harder - i try to think like my father in that he was open minded, very spiritual but i feel i am turning to the view that there is nothing else after you die and that we have all have a short time to live on this earth and that lots of things i believed in actually mean jack...

This is leaving the gap in me i feel at present i think...

I understand that these people were key players in your life and it is very difficult to compare these people to other relationships that have passed but you also have two things that will never be taken away by death; your memories and your love for these individuals. I also understand your grief which is why I could never offer advice about this. This will take time, in fact it will take all the time that you need but in the meantime remember the moments spent with these individuals they are yours to cherish and reflect upon.