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Can the dead be contacted according to your tradition?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Yes. In my local Pagan community and others around the world we believe the dead can be contacted and offerings made. Death isn't something to be feared or shunned; it happens to us all and is completely natural. Samhain is believed to be the best time to do this as the veil between the worlds of the living and the dead is at its thinnest. We use this time to honour our ancestors by recounting how they influenced and improved our lives and usually by pouring libations to the earth, in which the dead rest according to some Pagans. More personally, some Pagans have an ancestral altar or shrine in their home; usually with pictures and affects of those they wish to honour. Here the honoured's favourite food & drink can be shared with the living and prayers offered. I plan to do this at some point in the future now that my maternal grandparents have both passed on.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Contacting those who have left their bodies behind for the spirit world from which they came is a big part of my practices.
Just curious if it is allowed, forbidden, or impossible for you according to your tradition to contact the dead.
OOh. Yes. It's deeply engraved into my life contacting the spirits of the deceased, talking with them, and asking them for guidance and so forth. I wish I connected to a religion or way of life within a community that has this as a central part of their practices. I don't know any that is not specifically culture centered.
I'm actually surprised that people don't contact the spirits of our deceased. That's me.
Was she looking for advice on how to destroy the Empire's shield generator?
Why do you suppose we never had any trouble with the Empire? Just saying.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's possible, in my tradition. It's neither allowed nor forbidden - generally speaking - because such an act in and of itself is kammically neutral.Contacting those who have left their bodies behind for the spirit world from which they came is a big part of my practices.
Just curious if it is allowed, forbidden, or impossible for you according to your tradition to contact the dead.
No, not by my understanding. We do however inherit their karma and the responsibility for it.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
When a Catholic prays a "hail Mary" would you consider that Necromancy?
Maponos
Welcome to the Opera
No more so than praying to one's ancestors. Necromancy is usually a little more direct and much more ritualistic than a simple prayer.
Forever_Catholic
Active Member
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church , Paragraph 2116:
All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
And efforts to contact the dead with seances, ouija boards, or through whatever method, can result in bringing a demon into your life. Demons are known to impersonate human souls, and once such an interaction begins, the demon attaches itself more and more firmly to a person who communicates with it.
Praying for the dead, though, is a very good thing to do. And praying to saints in heaven to ask for their intercessions is perfectly alright.
All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
And efforts to contact the dead with seances, ouija boards, or through whatever method, can result in bringing a demon into your life. Demons are known to impersonate human souls, and once such an interaction begins, the demon attaches itself more and more firmly to a person who communicates with it.
Praying for the dead, though, is a very good thing to do. And praying to saints in heaven to ask for their intercessions is perfectly alright.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
What dead people is the CCC speaking of. No one dies. Is there a different dead for our catholic relatives then there is for the saints?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I am not familiar with other denominations, but yes, Catholics practice nemocracy. A lot of religions do but it is called by different names.
No one is dead. The saints are not dead no more than George Washington. That said.
1. Catholics do conjure (make something appear) saints by praying to them and god to bless them. The difference between one conjurer and a Catholic is that a conjurer may get his or her source to talk to the spirits directly by dance, prayer, song, and so forth. Catholics get their source to conjure or make appear saints to help them by jesus.
2. Catholics do, by god's doing/source, conjure up saints so that they may guide them and in some cases help them with future events they wish to happen (self-fulfilling prophecy). When that prophecy is answered, it is by the saint and the saint from god. It's a family communication between saints, god, jesus, and Catholic.
3. When prayers are answered by saints, those prayers influence events that Catholic prayed for. They call it a blessing. It is called different things by various religions.
4. Nemocracy is not sorcery. Catholics call on saints to bless them. I call on my family. A Pagan may call on their god. A pagan their ancestor. Sorcery is defined by calling on evil forces; so, that is against the Bible.
5. Nemocracy is not divination. Catholics do not receive the knowledge, blessings, and so forth on their own accord as defined in divination. They get these things from god. Divination is against the Bible. Nemocracy is not (according to Catholicism).
I will stretch this a bit.
Most christians pray to jesus for his blessings and salvation. Jesus used to be human and now he is spirit. He is still alive, according to christians (just as many Pagans see their ancestors, for example), and by praying to him they feel he returns the favor by his means.
Who is the "dead" according to Catholicism?
Do you only talk to those in heaven or those in purgatory as well?
No one is dead. The saints are not dead no more than George Washington. That said.
Nemacrocy is when one "conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events"
1. Catholics do conjure (make something appear) saints by praying to them and god to bless them. The difference between one conjurer and a Catholic is that a conjurer may get his or her source to talk to the spirits directly by dance, prayer, song, and so forth. Catholics get their source to conjure or make appear saints to help them by jesus.
2. Catholics do, by god's doing/source, conjure up saints so that they may guide them and in some cases help them with future events they wish to happen (self-fulfilling prophecy). When that prophecy is answered, it is by the saint and the saint from god. It's a family communication between saints, god, jesus, and Catholic.
3. When prayers are answered by saints, those prayers influence events that Catholic prayed for. They call it a blessing. It is called different things by various religions.
4. Nemocracy is not sorcery. Catholics call on saints to bless them. I call on my family. A Pagan may call on their god. A pagan their ancestor. Sorcery is defined by calling on evil forces; so, that is against the Bible.
5. Nemocracy is not divination. Catholics do not receive the knowledge, blessings, and so forth on their own accord as defined in divination. They get these things from god. Divination is against the Bible. Nemocracy is not (according to Catholicism).
I will stretch this a bit.Most christians pray to jesus for his blessings and salvation. Jesus used to be human and now he is spirit. He is still alive, according to christians (just as many Pagans see their ancestors, for example), and by praying to him they feel he returns the favor by his means.
Who is the "dead" according to Catholicism?
Do you only talk to those in heaven or those in purgatory as well?
Yes, they can communicate through gifted mediums under proper conditions. This is one of the central beliefs in Spiritualism.
The "spirits" contacted are not the dearly departed but demonic spirits who impersonate the dead.
The Bible forbids any contact with such spirits or any practice associated with them.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12:
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you."
There is no ambiguity in this passage.
The Bible forbids any contact with such spirits or any practice associated with them.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12:
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you."
There is no ambiguity in this passage.
That is beautiful. One of the (many) things I love about Japanese culture is the presence of a shrine in homes where the family ancestors are worshipped.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If spirits do not exist in your religion?
If not,
How would you interpret those who are "spirit mediums"?
If they are not part of your religion, wouldn't you say people are faking not detesting god?
How can you detest god by say using tarot cards when there are no such thing as spirits to which those tarot cards would work? They'd just be regular playing cards with lovely colored pictures.
How can you divine, fortune-tell, do sorcery, and magic to something that doesn't exist in your faith?
Unless I'm wrong?
Isn't it a wonderful thing!