Can this be anything other than what it appears to be?

[ThePainefulTruth]

You should have nothing to do with such research because you donc't understand anything about emotions.

Spoken like a true Muslim.

 

[Tumah]

They found several ossuaries which the combination of names indicated a high certainty that is was the tomb of the Jesus. Then they found the nearby tomb with indications that it was Joseph of Arimathea's which increased the certainty. Then yesterday, the article announced that the ossuary labeled "James the son of Joseph and brother of Jesus" had been in the Jesus family tomb, which makes it a statistical certainty that it is the Jesus. What Christians are going to have the hardest time accepting is that Jesus was married with at least one child and was thus a sexual being. That fits in with many of the Gnostic Christian sects, but goes against the Pauline sect, under which asserting the asexual nature of Jesus was finally victorious under Emperor Constantine.

The most important implication of these finds is the undermining of Pauline theology, even though, ironically, he apparently didn't believe in a bodily resurrection himself. That was just glomed onto it later.

That is actually very interesting.

No, the orthodox wouldn't let them do anything but send in a remote camera. The ossuaries in the Jesus tomb have been dated through epigraphic means, analysis of the patina on the ossuaries and the stone they were made of, and the fact that they only used ossuaries for about a 70 year period which ended with the destruction of Jerusalem.

Yes, I see that these ossuaries were only in use during the Second Temple period.

They were able to do some limited DNA testing on the Jesus and Mariamene bone material, which fits as well, showing that they weren't a familial match. Now if they could just do a DNA test on the (their?) child. I don't believe they've done any carbon14 dating, but the date of the tomb or ossuaries isn't in question.

That is something that would interest me greatly as I believe that the Jesus figure of the NT is based on an actual person who lived about a hundred years earlier. So I would actually love to see come c14 dating on that.
Also, I guess if they could they would do some dna testing on Jesus and James to empirically conclude a relation?

Interestingly, all the inscriptions are in Aramaic except for the Mariamene ossuary, which is in Greek, which would fit with the theory that she was a Gentile, and the "Mara" appended to her name is a title equivalent to Lady, as in Lord and Lady.

I don't have enough background in Christian lore to relate to this issue.

 

[Nietzsche]

That is something that would interest me greatly as I believe that the Jesus figure of the NT is based on an actual person who lived about a hundred years earlier. So I would actually love to see come c14 dating on that.

Eh, while I'm not going to say it's impossible, the other dating methods they've used are reasonably accurate, and the ages(of the tomb and such) line up reasonably well with the timeline presented in the New Testament. So while it certainly isn't out of the question, I doubt the bodies will be older than the tomb.

I'm fully willing to be wrong here, though.

 

[Tumah]

Eh, while I'm not going to say it's impossible, the other dating methods they've used are reasonably accurate, and the ages(of the tomb and such) line up reasonably well with the timeline presented in the New Testament. So while it certainly isn't out of the question, I doubt the bodies will be older than the tomb.

I'm fully willing to be wrong here, though.

Well, I'd still like to hear of dating done on the inside, not just the outside.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Two relevant quotes from the New York Times article:

“I think I’ve got really powerful, virtually unequivocal evidence that the James ossuary spent most of its lifetime, or death time, in the Talpiot Tomb,” Dr. Shimron said in an interview in the lobby of the King David Hotel here as he presented his as-yet unpublished findings to a reporter for the first time.

“I myself have excavated a handful of tombs that were open and filled with soil,” Dr. Gibson said. “Personally I don’t think the James ossuary has anything to do with Talpiot.”

Still, Dr. Gibson said, the scholarly community was eagerly awaiting the publication of Dr. Shimron’s results in a scientific journal for peer review.

The first should warrant strong suspicion and the second a commitment to caution.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I've been reading about this all morning... It's fascinating.

Wouldn't this further validate the Gnostic gospels, to a certain extent? It would finally affirm that these people who lived very dedicated, yet isolated lives, only to be ridiculed by future generations, finally get some recognition; if nothing else but for maintaining the closest thing to truth through all the different convolutions of Christian doctrine and dogma.

I'd still want to wait on the published version of the study before I make a call on it though.

EDIT:
The Lost Tomb of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

That is actually very interesting.
That is something that would interest me greatly as I believe that the Jesus figure of the NT is based on an actual person who lived about a hundred years earlier. So I would actually love to see come c14 dating on that.

Who, the Teacher of Righteousness? I tend towards Eiseman's conclusions that he was James the brother of Jesus, while the "Wicked Priest" was Ananus ben Ananus who had James murdered, and above all, the "Spouter of Lies" is Paul almost beyond doubt. I also believe that Paul is the beast of Revelation, with the "number of the beast" being Gematria for Tarsus. That last bit of information comes from a group of modern Ebionites. That number, six hundred threescore and six (not 666 which is an arabic numeral anachronism), is a reference to two identical passages in the Torah--the number of the talents of gold that came to Solomon in one year. So it was a reference to Tarsus, the Roman center of Mithraism, and to Paul's wealth and Roman citizenship which he inherited as an heir of Herod's.

Also, I guess if they could they would do some dna testing on Jesus and James to empirically conclude a relation?

The James' ossurary was apparently cleaned at some point, probably prior to it's sale to Oded Golan.

I don't have enough background in Christian lore to relate to this issue.

She is still thought by most Christians to be a reformed prostitute, based on some 6th century Pope's comments. A new book, The Lost Gospel, by Jacobovici and Barrie, is an new English translation and evaluation of a Gnostic volume (stored in the British Museum) using the surface characters of Joseph and Asineth as stand ins for Jesus and Mary the Magdalene--so they could spread the prohibited story in plain sight, instead of burying them like the Nag Hammadi Library.

Well, I'd still like to hear of dating done on the inside, not just the outside.

But given the short period of time they used ossuaries, to have bones from the first century BCE, they would have had to re-inter them

I've been reading about this all morning... It's fascinating.

Wouldn't this further validate the Gnostic gospels, to a certain extent? It would finally affirm that these people who lived very dedicated, yet isolated lives, only to be ridiculed by future generations, finally get some recognition; if nothing else but for maintaining the closest thing to truth through all the different convolutions of Christian doctrine and dogma.

I recommend the above mentioned Lost Gospel for this as well. There's a lot of enlightening information in it (that fits well with what they're finding at Talpiot), but some of their ideas were pretty far out there as well. In fact, the current staid Christian attitude toward sex and celibacy could have been, in part, a reaction to gnostic practices.

 

[Tumah]

Who, the Teacher of Righteousness? I tend towards Eiseman's conclusions that he was James the brother of Jesus, while the "Wicked Priest" was Ananus ben Ananus who had James murdered, and above all, the "Spouter of Lies" is Paul almost beyond doubt. I also believe that Paul is the beast of Revelation, with the "number of the beast" being Gematria for Tarsus. That last bit of information comes from a group of modern Ebionites. That number, six hundred threescore and six (not 666 which is an arabic numeral anachronism), is a reference to two identical passages in the Torah--the number of the talents of gold that came to Solomon in one year. So it was a reference to Tarsus, the Roman center of Mithraism, and to Paul's wealth and Roman citizenship which he inherited as an heir of Herod's.

I can't say no, because they may be the same, but I was actually thinking about the Talmudic Jesus. He lived about 100 years prior. I believe his sect were the proto-Christians whose traditions formed the basis that was used for the NT.
I wonder how they get 666 from Tarsus. The name spelled in Hebrew doesn't seem to equal that: (60)ת(400) -ר(200) - ס(60) - ו(6) - ס, unless you leave out the last 's'. Even if you use the original Hittite 'Tarsa', you're replacing the last 66 with 5, so still one off. I've often heard the "Yeshu Notzri" = ישו נצרי = 666 or the Caesar Nero = 666 = נרו ק(י)סר.

The James' ossurary was apparently cleaned at some point, probably prior to it's sale to Oded Golan.

That's too bad.

She is still thought by most Christians to be a reformed prostitute, based on some 6th century Pope's comments. A new book, The Lost Gospel, by Jacobovici and Barrie, is an new English translation and evaluation of a Gnostic volume (stored in the British Museum) using the surface characters of Joseph and Asineth as stand ins for Jesus and Mary the Magdalene--so they could spread the prohibited story in plain sight, instead of burying them like the Nag Hammadi Library.

In other words, Jesus gets his own Rahab like character.
Sometimes it feels like they are trying to stuff every Scriptural story into the Jesus narrative.

But given the short period of time they used ossuaries, to have bones from the first century BCE, they would have had to re-inter them

Re-interring was actually practiced around that time. I wasn't able to find a source stating that ossuaries were only used during this short time. The most I found claimed it was used for about 200 years.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I wonder how they get 666 from Tarsus. The name spelled in Hebrew doesn't seem to equal that: (60)ת(400) -ר(200) - ס(60) - ו(6) - ס, unless you leave out the last 's'. Even if you use the original Hittite 'Tarsa', you're replacing the last 66 with 5, so still one off. I've often heard the "Yeshu Notzri" = ישו נצרי = 666 or the Caesar Nero = 666 = נרו ק(י)סר.

It's over my head. Check out this page from their site and see what you think:

666, WWW, and the Unrecognized Beast

I wasn't able to find a source stating that ossuaries were only used during this short time. The most I found claimed it was used for about 200 years.

Yeah, as usual there's disagreement. I've usually heard, 70 years, Herod to the destruction of Jerusalem and the like, or second temple period which may be intentionally vague. The reason for going to that practice was the increase in population and and shrinking real estate around the temple, especially after Herod expanded it. I wonder how many graves ended up being well over 6' under, or destroyed entirely.

 

[Desert Snake]

@PainefulTruth

'Resurrection of the body', means a new body; not the old one, lol.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

@PainefulTruth

'Resurrection of the body', means a new body; not the old one, lol.

LOL?

Actually, it can mean either. A new spiritual body is apparently what the original followers of Jesus meant by it. But later it somehow came to mean a resuscitation of the original body. Thus the doubting Thomas story about the scars from the wounds still being there was backed in. The vast majority of Christians today believe the latter. I suspect, if Christianity is still a force in a hundred years, that most will then believe the former to be the case.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Matthew 28+
Luke 24+
John 20+
1 Corinthians 15

The New Testament states that Jesus hung out with people, had conversations, and walked around for 40 days after the crucifixion. Do believers just throw that part out or make claims about soul jumping and body-snatching?

People can try and make the argument of a non-literal resurrection and ascension all they like, but only if they reject the Biblical passages which supposedly describe the event as it happened. And if you're going to reject the Biblical account, then what do you have as the basis for your belief in the crucifixion and resurrection at all?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

......And if you're going to reject the Biblical account, then what do you have as the basis for your belief in the crucifixion and resurrection at all?

Precisely! The exact same basis we all have for our spiritual fates, hearsay and a big question mark?

 

[Desert Snake]

Matthew 28+
Luke 24+
John 20+
1 Corinthians 15

The New Testament states that Jesus hung out with people, had conversations, and walked around for 40 days after the crucifixion. Do believers just throw that part out or make claims about soul jumping and body-snatching?

People can try and make the argument of a non-literal resurrection and ascension all they like, but only if they reject the Biblical passages which supposedly describe the event as it happened. And if you're going to reject the Biblical account, then what do you have as the basis for your belief in the crucifixion and resurrection at all?

There are different meanings for resurrection of the body. Many Xians believe that that is what happens to Xians. I'm not making a non-literal resurrection argument for Jesus.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Great report on NBC about the Talpiot Tomb, emphasizing the irony of a concrete slab in a nondescript neighborhood over what could be the most important religious find in history. Why they didn't show what the facade of the tomb under the slab looked like, I don't know. When the reporter asked Simcha Jacobovici if he had faith that this is the burial tomb of Jesus, his imminently quotable profound reply was, "Faith only comes into it if you want to believe that it's not."

There are different meanings for resurrection of the body. Many Xians believe that that is what happens to Xians. I'm not making a non-literal resurrection argument for Jesus.

Then you are making a literal argument for it, where, to be clear, by literal you would mean a physical resurrection of his original body.

 

[Desert Snake]

Great report on NBC about the Talpiot Tomb, emphasizing the irony of a concrete slab in a nondescript neighborhood over what could be the most important religious find in history. Why they didn't show what the facade of the tomb under the slab looked like, I don't know. When the reporter asked Simcha Jacobovici if he had faith that this is the burial tomb of Jesus, his imminently quotable profound reply was, "Faith only comes into it if you want to believe that it's not."



Then you are making a literal argument for it, where, to be clear, by literal you would mean a physical resurrection of his original body.

No...if that is what is in the narrative, specifically, then the Bible is stating that; I didn't write the Bible.

 

[jonathan180iq]

The Bible is clearly literal in its depiction of the physical bodily resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ on a cloud, just as it is very literal in its depiction of holy zombies walking around Jerusalem directly after the crucifixion...

There's a solar eclipse, an earthquake, the veil of the temple is torn in two, tombs crack open and the bodies of the dead walk around for a while, and then Jesus chills around for like 40 days before drifting off into the sky...only to then send a message immediately after through some ghost boys saying that he will come back the same way he went up.

The whole thing is obviously written to be taken literally, without cherry-picking verses and reading the passages as they were written (without verse divisions).

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

No...if that is what is in the narrative, specifically, then the Bible is stating that; I didn't write the Bible.

The Bible is clearly literal in its depiction of the physical bodily resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, just as it is very literal in its depiction of holy zombies walking around Jerusalem after the crucifixion... The whole thing is obviously written to be taken literally. Without cherry-picking verses and reading the passages as they were written (without verse divisions).

The physical resurrection was apparently backed into to the canon (over the earlier belief about resurrection by Jesus' original followers) when it was "determined" by committee/force in the 4th century, while the rest was discarded by force.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Can you explain the implications of this article. I couldn't understand what the point was.

The point is: If you can point to a tomb, the rest of the myth must be real!

In related news, Spider Man was real.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

The point is: If you can point to a tomb, the rest of the myth must be real!

In related news, Spider Man was real.

: said or done too easily or carelessly : showing little preparation or thought

: speaking in a smooth, easy way that is not sincere

Thought I'd lead with the definition and then finish up with the word:
Glib.
And then maybe use it in a sentence:
It may not be easy being green, but being glib is its personification.
Congratulations.
And, BTW, it appears you completely missed the point of the OP, or more likely, didn't read it at all.