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Can we all agree that violence -- whether from the Left or from the Right -- should be Condemned?

Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I'm curious what those people who have so passionately condemned the anti-Trump protests make of these developments:

Donald Trump's victory followed by wave of hate crime attacks against minorities across US - led by his supporters

KKK announces North Carolina ‘victory’ parade

People Share Frightening Images In The Aftermath Of Trump’s Victory

Welcome to Trump’s America: 87 reports of people bullied by emboldened bigots — and the list is growing

Trump fans film themselves driving through women’s college and harassing black students

One difference between the anti-Trump protests and the apparently Trump-inspired hate crimes seems to be that the violence which has occurred during some of anti-Trump protests appears to be directed at breaking store windows and setting fire to dumpsters and such. But the Trump-inspired hate crime violence has been targeted not only at property (mostly in the form of hate-themed graffiti) but also targeted at people:

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3...e/2016/11/10/16/man-attacked-santa-monica.jpg

Can we at the very least all agree that violence -- any violence -- whether from the Left or from the Right -- should be unequivocally condemned by everyone of us?
 
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Kemosloby

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
I'm curious what those people who have so passionately condemned the anti-Trump protests make of these developments:

Donald Trump's victory followed by wave of hate crime attacks against minorities across US - led by his supporters

KKK announces North Carolina ‘victory’ parade

People Share Frightening Images In The Aftermath Of Trump’s Victory

Welcome to Trump’s America: 87 reports of people bullied by emboldened bigots — and the list is growing

Trump fans film themselves driving through women’s college and harassing black students

One difference between the anti-Trump protests and the apparently Trump-inspired hate crimes seems to be that the violence which has occurred during some of anti-Trump protests appears to be directed at breaking store windows and setting fire to dumpsters and such. But the Trump-inspired hate crime violence has been targeted not only at property (mostly in the form of hate-themed graffiti) but also targeted at people:

man-attacked-santa-monica.jpg


Can we at the very least all agree that violence -- any violence -- whether from the Left or from the Right -- should be unequivocally condemned by everyone of us?
Click to expand...
He certainly didn't get that bloody face sitting at home minding his own business.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Kemosloby said:
He certainly didn't get that bloody face sitting at home minding his own business.
Click to expand...

His only "crime" was being gay. Apparently, that's all it took for the Trump supporters to attack him. Read the story in the first link in the OP.

Frankly, I'm not surprised their are such Trump supporters given that even on this board there are Trump supporters, like you, who instead of condemning such violence, seek to justify it.
 
Neo Deist

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
@Sunstone I agree that there are a**holes on both sides. The extremes from both ends, which happen to be a small minority, are the ones that stir up most of the BS. I have always condemned violence. Hell, I arrest people for being violent.

It is one thing to have a peaceful protest. I may not like the protest subject, but if done legally, I will stand watch while you protest in order to make sure no one attacks you for expressing your Constitutional rights. If you burn a flag, I won't try to stop you (unless there is a drought - no burn order), but I will shake my head in disgust. I am a veteran and that is disgraceful in my eyes. I know people that came home in a casket with the flag draped over them.

I voluntarily stand the thin blue line so that you can protest peacefully.
 
The Emperor of Mankind

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I can't say I agree in this case. Condemning them both unequivocally makes it seem as though the violence being used by both sides is equivalent when it is not. Further, condemning violence unequivocally makes it sound like we're giving a knee-jerk reaction. It's better to say why we condemn violence. Setting fire to dumpsters and destruction of property; oh wow, how horrifying. You can repair broken windows and put out fires. People on the left are lashing out because they feel hurt and because they've been shown first hand that their votes don't mean a damn thing and that for a lot of them, their rights are up for grabs, that stereotyping is okay and that their voices are an inconvenience because they remind privileged white folk that, for some, life isn't that rosy.

The violence being used by the Trumpets is far, far more insidious. It's targeted violence aimed at people; minorities and others who will very soon lose their political voices and rights in the name of 'Make America Great Again!' and Trump with his hateful rhetoric is definitely to blame for this sort of thing - despite the desperate efforts of Trumpets here and elsewhere to deny a link between Trump's rhetoric and the actions of his supporters who feel empowered by Trump winning the Presidency.
 
निताइ dasa

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Both sides have extremists. It isn't the ideology that causes such violence, but rather the combination of self righteousness as well as spite which culminates into these atrocious act. Both sides have individuals who are damaging property and harming people. Recently I watched a video of a group of people kicking a person simply because they voted for Trump (video is here for some reason it was removed off Youtube). I mean, this even goes further to children


While I agree with your message @Sunstone , I don't agree with the comparison you've made between Trump and anti-Trump supporters. In my opinion, such a contrast is divisive and forgets the underlying principle that people are hurting others simply because of a difference in opinion. While the violence may not be equal (we don't have all the facts), I think it is quite dishonest to point the finger at one side, when both sides have their fair share of extremists/bigots.

And this is coming from someone living in Australia, we are having fights even here regarding the outcomes of this election. The problem lies in this idea of self righteousness. The other side is so wrong and evil and I am so right, that this justifies a violence means to do whatever to stop the other side. This is why personally I was never a fan of protest.
 
Laika

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
निताइ dasa said:
Both sides have extremists. It isn't the ideology that causes such violence, but rather the combination of self righteousness as well as spite which culminates into these atrocious act. Both sides have individuals who are damaging property and harming people. Recently I watched a video of a group of people kicking a person simply because they voted for Trump (video is here for some reason it was removed off Youtube). I mean, this even goes further to children


While I agree with your message @Sunstone , I don't agree with the comparison you've made between Trump and anti-Trump supporters. In my opinion, such a contrast is divisive and forgets the underlying principle that people are hurting others simply because of a difference in opinion. While the violence may not be equal (we don't have all the facts), I think it is quite dishonest to point the finger at one side, when both sides have their fair share of extremists/bigots.

And this is coming from someone living in Australia, we are having fights even here regarding the outcomes of this election.
Click to expand...

There was a also surge in "hate crimes" in the UK after the Brexit vote. Its weird watching the US now go through almost the same thing. Very weird and pretty sad too.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...spike-brexit-vote-metropolitan-police?0p19G=c

I'm a little shocked things have affected Australia, but given global media, I probably shouldn't be.
 
james bond

james bond

Well-Known Member
Mister_T

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
His only "crime" was being gay. Apparently, that's all it took for the Trump supporters to attack him. Read the story in the first link in the OP.

Frankly, I'm not surprised their are such Trump supporters given that even on this board there are Trump supporters, like you, who instead of condemning such violence, seek to justify it.
Click to expand...
What makes it sadder if true, is Santa Monica is a pretty liberal and tolerant part of the L.A. metro. I can only imagine what the poor people who live in more close-minded and less tolerant places are having to go through.
 
Quetzal

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
Neo Deist said:
@Sunstone I agree that there are a**holes on both sides. The extremes from both ends, which happen to be a small minority, are the ones that stir up most of the BS. I have always condemned violence. Hell, I arrest people for being violent.

It is one thing to have a peaceful protest. I may not like the protest subject, but if done legally, I will stand watch while you protest in order to make sure no one attacks you for expressing your Constitutional rights. If you burn a flag, I won't try to stop you (unless there is a drought - no burn order), but I will shake my head in disgust. I am a veteran and that is disgraceful in my eyes. I know people that came home in a casket with the flag draped over them.

I voluntarily stand the thin blue line so that you can protest peacefully.
Click to expand...
We disagree on a lot, Neo. But this is an excellent post and one I can get behind for sure. Thanks for sharing!
 
Quetzal

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
निताइ dasa said:
Both sides have extremists. It isn't the ideology that causes such violence, but rather the combination of self righteousness as well as spite which culminates into these atrocious act. Both sides have individuals who are damaging property and harming people.
Click to expand...
Correct. To answer @Sunstone directly and to this post: all violence, regardless of political affiliation, should be condemned.
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
I wasn't going to say anything about the vitriolic actions that was attributed to Trump supporters prior to the election. But due to the actions of those that opposed Trump in the election after the election leaves me no choice. It seems that violence is attributed to the right, whereas in actuality it is not as prevalent as the actions of those that have other political views.
First let me set it straight I am not advocating for the suppression of free speech; as long as it is done peacefully.
This country prides itself on the peaceful transaction of government, yet we have examples of those that can not seem to understand that concept. I don't know where these sniveling children get the idea that it is permissible to resort to criminal actions when they don't get their way. I have had it with them, it is time for them to realize that when one does something illegal that there are consequences for their actions. Now I'm not advocating for jail time, but I do think that they should be arrested and sent before a judge for punishment such as X number of hours of community service and if and this conviction will remain on their criminal record. I will go as far as saying that if they are advocating for physical attacks against persons that they will do "hard time".
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/.../09/donald-trump-president-protests/93532808/
http://www.infowars.com/hillary-sup...threaten-to-kill-trump-after-losing-election/

Then we have the non-violent reaction of the supposedly "intelligent" group of people. Those are the students at our colleges and universities. Are these the people that are supposed to be the next generation of achievers. These babies have been so coddled in their development years that they are unable to function when things do not go their way. If this is an example of the next generation then they are going to be in a very rude awaking when they realize that there is a "real" world out there and not the line that is being fed to them.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/11/09/colleges-try-to-comfort-students-upset-by-trump-victory/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/0...l-for-students-distraught-over-trump-win.html
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Put me down as opposing violence.

It's odd though....the OP only found Trump supporters committing it.
Reading multiple news sources though, it looks far more bi-partisan.
I recommend more diversity.

Edit....
I have noticed one striking difference between Hillary & Trump supporters.
While both will criticize the other candidate (both fairly & wildly unfairly),
Hillary supporters are unique in their hatred for supporters of the opposition.
This truly has been a one way street.
So I'll offer an olive branch.....
I find many reasonable people supported Hillary. My disagreement hasn't
been personal because they've offered good reasons to oppose Trump.
I'm not out to take away any of your rights, & I'll defend them to the extent I can.
I just want less war, taxes, & government. And I know Trump is a far less
than perfect candidate to do this. We'll all watch, & be ready to respond.
 
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Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Revoltingest said:
Put me down as opposing violence.

It's odd though....the OP only found Trump supporters committing it.
Reading multiple news sources though, it looks far more bi-partisan.
I recommend more diversity.

Edit....
I have noticed one striking difference between Hillary & Trump supporters.
While both will criticize the other candidate (both fairly & wildly unfairly),
Hillary supporters are unique in their hatred for supporters of the opposition.
This truly has been a one way street.
So I'll offer an olive branch.....
I find many reasonable people supported Hillary. My disagreement hasn't
been personal because they've offered good reasons to oppose Trump.
I'm not out to take away any of your rights, & I'll defend them to the extent I can.
I just want less war, taxes, & government. And I know Trump is a far less
than perfect candidate to do this. We'll all watch, & be ready to respond.
Click to expand...


I think this rioting on the left we are seeing was always the bigger worry- It's a continuation of what we saw pre- election also.

Anecdotally, there were pre-election anti-Hillary protesters in my town, men women and children.. in daylight.. on the sidewalk, holding signs, not burning or destroying anything. They looked as non threatening as you could imagine, but who knows maybe they were planning to attack people with their flasks of hot soup!

The tax payer funded local radio station- called them a 'flash mob' and- I swear I am not making this up- the two hosts joked about 'accidentally falling asleep at the wheel' when they drove past.... this was not long after what happened in Nice, France. I really should have filed a complaint. I can only imagine the uproar if a conservative radio host said this - but it's okay if you are leftist.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Guy Threepwood said:
I think this rioting on the left we are seeing was always the bigger worry- It's a continuation of what we saw pre- election also.

Anecdotally, there were pre-election anti-Hillary protesters in my town, men women and children.. in daylight.. on the sidewalk, holding signs, not burning or destroying anything. They looked as non threatening as you could imagine, but who knows maybe they were planning to attack people with their flasks of hot soup!

The tax payer funded local radio station- called them a 'flash mob' and- I swear I am not making this up- the two hosts joked about 'accidentally falling asleep at the wheel' when they drove past.... this was not long after what happened in Nice, France. I really should have filed a complaint. I can only imagine the uproar if a conservative radio host said this - but it's okay if you are leftist.
Click to expand...
Trump supporter anger is largely at the system.
Hillary supporter anger is largely at Trump and his supporters.
(You know...us uneducated racist misogynist white males.
Why ignore women who voted for him...is it sexist to criticize women?)
This makes Democratic violence more dangerous because of the great
risk they'll attack individual people (as seen in the news).
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Revoltingest said:
Trump supporter anger is largely at the system.
Hillary supporter anger is largely at Trump and his supporters.
(You know...us uneducated racist misogynist white males.
Why ignore women who voted for him...is it sexist to criticize women?)
This makes Democratic violence more dangerous because of the great
risk they'll attack individual people (as seen in the news).
Click to expand...

Yes, and to broaden that, there is a fundamental difference quite apart from ideology, policy etc

conservatives generally support the will of the people versus political elites.

Not so the other way around. Many liberals often openly express disdain for 'the people' . The leftist ideology is so inherently superior in their minds, it is perfectly justified to be forced on the majority - this is fundamentally more important than democracy. This is the explicit rationale of socialist dictators and ultimately- demonstrably- the most dangerous position in human history.

Not that I see anything going that far here, so far these mostly look like fairly harmless kids, who want to vent a bit and go home. My fear is that the media will try to escalate it into a more extreme movement, as we saw with BLM
 
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