Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
I agree completely that we should condemn violent behavior. And if they don't listen to us, then we should beat the crap out of them.
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Can we all agree that violence -- whether from the Left or from the Right -- should be Condemned?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
I agree completely that we should condemn violent behavior. And if they don't listen to us, then we should beat the crap out of them.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Yes, though I think people are mostly like you and I; not idiots. They are usually far more nuanced, diverse in their opinions than the political parties we are obliged to align with. I'd be happy putting all policies & laws to public referendum
That would probably mean a lot of policy I wouldn't agree with, and same with you- but I would find it a lot more easy to accept- coming from my friends, family, neighbors- than politicians, lawyers, bribes, lies- how about you?
See, that wasn't so hard.
As for your observation of me being hypocritical, I'll wait for you to show how I'm being biased (magically?). No one can dispute that both sides are acting sub-human. The OP itself never makes the assertion and there is one side being violent and one side not, yet here you have someone saying it's only Democrats being violent which given the wealth of information in this thread to prove otherwise, is pretty disingenuous. But, that looks like it's something you've conveniently glossed over. Why is that?
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I see post #11, by you, as expression of your bias. As well as post #12. As well as post #36. Slightly so in post #38. Slightly so in post #41. And a little bit in post #45, which I'll address below.
OP makes this point:
So, I see this as contradicting the point you are making, thus going against your bias. But, if we parse what is said here, it is actually equivocating anti-protestors with pro-hate crimes, and emphasizing the point that the pro side is targeted at people. Yet, we do have video evidence, on this thread and elsewhere on RF (plus in many places outside of RF) where anti-people are targeting people who supported Trump.
My first post on this thread addressed this. I specifically said:
And I'm still up for addressing that, but not sure if this is the thread for that. I'm more inclined to have that type of discussion in "Conservatives Only" part of the forum, because it fits within my view that we, on our side, better be taking care of this.
I would very much like to see anti-Trump protesters (or just non-supporters of Trump) out on the streets engaging in self policing type tactics, whereby anything violent is halted by those people. Reported to police. Possibly more things that seeks to distance anti-Trump sentiment from any call to be disorderly/assault other people.
I imagine all Progressive types would like to see pro-Trump people do whatever they can in their power to halt disorderly and assaulting actions toward certain Americans. As if each side can self police bad actors, and is not shy about this. Or at very least isn't willing to let that slide because - well they're on our side, so we will turn the other way. But if the guys from the other side do anything like this, we'll start threads about it and point out just how awful that is. Can't we all agree how awful the other side is being right now? Yeah, that's how I read this thread.
I have not. So, you might want to check who's being disingenuous, and who's not.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Unproven does not equal "faked"
I'm been in enough investigations to suspect fake. No police report. No approx. time. No location. As for Trump, he is pro gay marriage and gay equality like me. He says he was hit over the head with a bottle. His friend says he was smashed in the face with a bottle. If it really happened, then this guy wouldn't be talking and walking around. He claims the injuries look more serious than they are. A bottle to the head would do some damage. Maybe cause a concussion. Any head or face wound would cause a lot of blood, so one can't judge on the amount of blood. However, that much blood from the body would put him in a hospital. Any kind of bleeding wound to the body can be serious and would have to be stopped. This guy's a Canadian film producer, so the two pics he took could easily be staged. Just add a story.
EDIT: There was a gay activist, Calum McSwiggan, an online personality known for his blog posts and YouTube videos. He went above and beyond to become a fake "victim."
This will go down in history as the most painful fake hate crime ever. Knocking out your own teeth and gashing your head open just to get a little attention? The young man has serious mental health issues that need to be addressed.
Every fake crime reported makes it harder to believe the victim when actual assaults take place. Also, there is an epidemic of fake hate crimes on campus as minorities and others see how victims are lionized and feted by liberals. This appears to be motivation enough to create a fictitious hate incident where the "victim" becomes the center of attention."
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016
/10/gay_youtube_star_charged_in_fake_hate_crime_incident.html
The Dems tried to lie, cheat and steal an election with Clinton and they're still trying to do so. At least, most were gracious enough to congratulate the victors such as Warren Buffett who said, "Trump deserves respect." It's just regrettable that a few continue to let the elections still carry on. If you want to blame somebody, blame Obama. I would agree with that.
Let me first start off by saying, regardless of what I think of Trump, I have no bias when it comes to either side being violent or racist. Both sides are being despicable in my eyes, let's be clear on that.
Secondly, you seem to be pivoting from the original point. Regardless of how the OP suggests each group is being violent, I'd say the fact they both have been or are being violent is apparent. Saying that it's only Democrats is indeed being biased and vice versa. I'm not sure how calling someone out for being biased makes them biased.
And I don't think that's unreasonable you read it like that given that you and Sunstone appear to be at odds politically. I personally saw it as offering counter-balance to the narrative that despicable behavior is exclusive only to the left. Eye of the beholder I guess.
So you acknowledge then that this is an issue on both sides? If so, I'll retract my statement.
I acknowledge this is an issue on both sides. And that it would be great for my side (read as both sides, but personal responsibility and all) to take care of the stuff on our side. I see condemnation as small, somewhat shallow step. But is perhaps the most one side can do on a forum in relation to bad actors on their own side.
I would've actually hoped based on title that there would be links showing both sides, and then OP acknowledging which side they are on, and condemning the assaults (linked evidence) of own side. Setting an example that the likes of me would probably follow, by me going through links of own side engaging in violence.
Story'o me life.Don't have to worry about the Marxists, you aren't significant enough to be a target.
False. Trump haters have abused Trump voters.
Some of the stories are made up. But you're right. We should condemn violence against man and property.
Some of the stories are made up. But you're right. We should condemn violence against man and property.
bused
Of course it would be easier when it comes from a personal setting. The problem with the media and the internet is that we so easily forget that there are real human beings on the other side that probably aren't that much different from us.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Ah, another self-proclaimed expert who knows what happened and how, despite not being there. Your opinion is noted and dismissed as worthless.
Just because McSwiggan was (according to you) a 'fake victim' doesn't mean this guy is.
Not as much as the issues you have where you honestly believe it's more likely that this guy inflicted this level of damage on himself rather than a bunch of homophobic arseholes doing it.
Hold on a second. You just said up there that there was no police report filed here so the above doesn't apply here. Besides, what the **** do you know to judge things like these as "fake crimes"? Straight privilege in action right here; judging crimes as "fake" and dismissing them just because it jars with your perception of reality. Just like Ahmadinejad saying "there are no homosexuals in Iran".
They failed and Trump succeeded. But of course, lieing, cheating and stealing is only bad to you when Democrats do it.
Figures. Obama could invent a cure for AIDS and cancer and you'd probably twist it into 'thousands of medical professionals and undertakers to lose their jobs. Thanks, Obama'. He can't do anything good in your eyes because you hold a bigoted position towards him yet you probably can't name anything he's done wrong.
And no, Trump doesn't deserve respect simply because he 'won'. He lost the popular vote and got the result handed to him by the same electoral college he personally decried as a "disaster for democracy" only a day or so previous to the ballot. He's also come out with some reprehensible garbage about minorities & women and spent his entire campaign slandering people. His gaining the Presidency doesn't change any of that. He doesn't deserve the respect of decent people because he's done literally nothing to earn it.
You'd better wish your respect-deserving President elect good luck for the number of trials he's got coming up. So respectable...
james bond
Well-Known Member
I'm just going to stay with Chris Ball is a fake to counter the OP claims that the right is violent (the other case has already been tried and the culprit exposed). Your one case of violence has been shown to be untrustworthy while I have three and more from the anti-Trump riots with the anarchists last night. It just further goes to show that Trump was right in that things are rigged in this country.
I still believe that the majority of Dems are law-abiding people. I just don't trust the few in your party who lie, cheat, steal and kill to win an election and afterward want to overthrow democracy. People who run the Clinton Foundation. People like George Soros who put in millions to Black Lives Matter and other leftist protest organization in the US and around the world. He could care less about the blacks, poor or oppressed welfare. In the US, he is out to make more money off their backs and dismantle the multi-party system that we have. Obama - Clinton was to just have the Dems run America from now on. That's why this election was so important and the people, democracy and freedom won.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Of course, I wouldn't expect facts and reason to change a mind so hopelessly blinkered.
Has it? Where? I haven't seen any posts proving it's a fake, and certainly not from you. All you've done have said 'it's fake', spouted a bunch of unfounded assertions (how exactly do you know that a police report hasn't been filed?), drawn an unevidenced comparison between this guy and someone else who, according to your not-so-trustworthy opinion, is a "fake victim".
He said the system is rigged in such a way that it would keep him from winning and, lo and behold, that same system helped him to win. I haven't seen any retractions in this regard from Trump; I haven't seen any attempts to decline the Presidency because he was helped out by a corrupt, rigged system.
Despite the fact you sincerely believe all the violence comes purely from the left.
I've got a newsflash for you: the candidate with the fewest votes winning the election is not democracy. Further, who exactly has killed anyone in order to win this election? We've had recent experience of the right-wing murdering someone who disagreed with them in Britain in order to silence their opponents. From my experience it seems that using violence to silence critics and dissent is far more often used by the right. Her murderer also had ties to right-wing elements in the States; elements that would have certainly supported Trump.
I'll decline to comment as I don't know a thing about the Clinton Foundation beyond the fact it's run by the Clintons.
And how would you know? Isn't it possible he actually believes in what they're protesting about? You might be a cynic but that doesn't mean everyone else is.
I agree; he could care less which means he still cares to some degree. ****ing Americanisms...
Which is completely different to what the likes of the Tea Party and various corporations do. Isn't that the American Dream, after all? To make money off of other people. Oh wait, it's only bad if the person doing it isn't a die-hard rightie!
Saying 'multi-party system' implies that more than 2 candidates have a decent chance of winning. America has a two-party system and your culture encourages shaming people who vote for third-party candidates. Look at that Kang & Kodos clip from the Simpsons and you'll see what I mean.
Aside from the nagging issue that the Republicans control both levels of Congress and are in full obstruction mode. They've been doing their damndest to ensure Obama can barely do a thing for years and you've got the nerve to blame him for not much being done. Obamacare wouldn't be the ****storm that it is if your precious party hadn't veto'd just about every ****ing detail of it to turn into privatised healthcare like the system it was supposed to replace. Not to mention the elephant in the room (no pun intended) that Romney tried to introduce something pretty similar.
Look, I know you're busy working yourself into a full-blown 'Muricagasm but I feel the need to interrupt your rhythm with a few points:
- Democracy is where the candidate with the most votes wins. Trump got fewer votes than Clinton. His victory is inherently undemocratic. This isn't the first time either; Bush got fewer votes than Gore yet the college gave him the Oval Office - and Republicans have the nerve to say the electoral college favours the Democrats. Hypocrisy much?
- The Obama administration extended the freedom to marry to thousands of LGBTs. Christians were told their freedom of religion does not include the freedom to discriminate. Now that Trump is in with an evangelical VP who actually believes homosexuality is something that can be cured with electro-shock therapy, they can roll back these legal protections for LGBTs. Freedom has lost.
- If the Republicans were so interested in preserving democracy then the Republican-controlled Senate wouldn't have illegally prevented Obama from appointing a Supreme Court Justice to replace Scalia. They said Obama didn't have the mandate but he did when people voted him into a second term. The Republicans only defend democracy when it plays into their hands.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Of course, I wouldn't expect facts and reason to change a mind so hopelessly blinkered.
Has it? Where? I haven't seen any posts proving it's a fake, and certainly not from you. All you've done have said 'it's fake', spouted a bunch of unfounded assertions (how exactly do you know that a police report hasn't been filed?), drawn an unevidenced comparison between this guy and someone else who, according to your not-so-trustworthy opinion, is a "fake victim".
He said the system is rigged in such a way that it would keep him from winning and, lo and behold, that same system helped him to win. I haven't seen any retractions in this regard from Trump; I haven't seen any attempts to decline the Presidency because he was helped out by a corrupt, rigged system.
Despite the fact you sincerely believe all the violence comes purely from the left.
I've got a newsflash for you: the candidate with the fewest votes winning the election is not democracy. Further, who exactly has killed anyone in order to win this election? We've had recent experience of the right-wing murdering someone who disagreed with them in Britain in order to silence their opponents. From my experience it seems that using violence to silence critics and dissent is far more often used by the right. Her murderer also had ties to right-wing elements in the States; elements that would have certainly supported Trump.
I'll decline to comment as I don't know a thing about the Clinton Foundation beyond the fact it's run by the Clintons.
And how would you know? Isn't it possible he actually believes in what they're protesting about? You might be a cynic but that doesn't mean everyone else is.
I agree; he could care less which means he still cares to some degree. ****ing Americanisms...
Which is completely different to what the likes of the Tea Party and various corporations do. Isn't that the American Dream, after all? To make money off of other people. Oh wait, it's only bad if the person doing it isn't a die-hard rightie!
Saying 'multi-party system' implies that more than 2 candidates have a decent chance of winning. America has a two-party system and your culture encourages shaming people who vote for third-party candidates. Look at that Kang & Kodos clip from the Simpsons and you'll see what I mean.
Aside from the nagging issue that the Republicans control both levels of Congress and are in full obstruction mode. They've been doing their damndest to ensure Obama can barely do a thing for years and you've got the nerve to blame him for not much being done. Obamacare wouldn't be the ****storm that it is if your precious party hadn't veto'd just about every ****ing detail of it to turn into privatised healthcare like the system it was supposed to replace. Not to mention the elephant in the room (no pun intended) that Romney tried to introduce something pretty similar.
Look, I know you're busy working yourself into a full-blown 'Muricagasm but I feel the need to interrupt your rhythm with a few points:
- Democracy is where the candidate with the most votes wins. Trump got fewer votes than Clinton. His victory is inherently undemocratic. This isn't the first time either; Bush got fewer votes than Gore yet the college gave him the Oval Office - and Republicans have the nerve to say the electoral college favours the Democrats. Hypocrisy much?
- The Obama administration extended the freedom to marry to thousands of LGBTs. Christians were told their freedom of religion does not include the freedom to discriminate. Now that Trump is in with an evangelical VP who actually believes homosexuality is something that can be cured with electro-shock therapy, they can roll back these legal protections for LGBTs. Freedom has lost.
- If the Republicans were so interested in preserving democracy then the Republican-controlled Senate wouldn't have illegally prevented Obama from appointing a Supreme Court Justice to replace Scalia. They said Obama didn't have the mandate but he did when people voted him into a second term. The Republicans only defend democracy when it plays into their hands.
Absolutely. I condemn violence and destruction, and intimidation in any form as far as this is concerned. Truth is the vast majority of people who voted for Hillary or Donald, did just that. They voted, then went home, were either pleased or disappointed with the results, celebrated or griped, and then went on with life. As it should be. People on either side who did not do that and instead resorted to violence do shame to their party and our nation.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
!!!!
apparently not unfortunately. The 'liberal' reaction to not getting their way, is the scariest and saddest thing I've seen for a long time
edit- I appreciate that he does not speak for most liberals, who I believe are overwhelmingly well meaning decent people, I certainly pray he doesn't.
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Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I don't condone it for sure. Mostly because I know it won't work. But I believe that if they did that it is worse than what a drug dealer would do to children and I already have no problem when I hear a crack dealer got shot in a drug deal gone bad.!!!!
apparently not unfortunately. The 'liberal' reaction to not getting their way, is the scariest and saddest thing I've seen for a long time
edit- I appreciate that he does not speak for most liberals, who I believe are overwhelmingly well meaning decent people, I certainly pray he doesn't.
Its not about "not getting my way" it has to do with harm inflicted to children.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Of course, I wouldn't expect facts and reason to change a mind so hopelessly blinkered.
Has it? Where? I haven't seen any posts proving it's a fake, and certainly not from you. All you've done have said 'it's fake', spouted a bunch of unfounded assertions (how exactly do you know that a police report hasn't been filed?), drawn an unevidenced comparison between this guy and someone else who, according to your not-so-trustworthy opinion, is a "fake victim".
He said the system is rigged in such a way that it would keep him from winning and, lo and behold, that same system helped him to win. I haven't seen any retractions in this regard from Trump; I haven't seen any attempts to decline the Presidency because he was helped out by a corrupt, rigged system.
Despite the fact you sincerely believe all the violence comes purely from the left.
I've got a newsflash for you: the candidate with the fewest votes winning the election is not democracy. Further, who exactly has killed anyone in order to win this election? We've had recent experience of the right-wing murdering someone who disagreed with them in Britain in order to silence their opponents. From my experience it seems that using violence to silence critics and dissent is far more often used by the right. Her murderer also had ties to right-wing elements in the States; elements that would have certainly supported Trump.
I'll decline to comment as I don't know a thing about the Clinton Foundation beyond the fact it's run by the Clintons.
And how would you know? Isn't it possible he actually believes in what they're protesting about? You might be a cynic but that doesn't mean everyone else is.
I agree; he could care less which means he still cares to some degree. ****ing Americanisms...
Which is completely different to what the likes of the Tea Party and various corporations do. Isn't that the American Dream, after all? To make money off of other people. Oh wait, it's only bad if the person doing it isn't a die-hard rightie!
Saying 'multi-party system' implies that more than 2 candidates have a decent chance of winning. America has a two-party system and your culture encourages shaming people who vote for third-party candidates. Look at that Kang & Kodos clip from the Simpsons and you'll see what I mean.
Aside from the nagging issue that the Republicans control both levels of Congress and are in full obstruction mode. They've been doing their damndest to ensure Obama can barely do a thing for years and you've got the nerve to blame him for not much being done. Obamacare wouldn't be the ****storm that it is if your precious party hadn't veto'd just about every ****ing detail of it to turn into privatised healthcare like the system it was supposed to replace. Not to mention the elephant in the room (no pun intended) that Romney tried to introduce something pretty similar.
Look, I know you're busy working yourself into a full-blown 'Muricagasm but I feel the need to interrupt your rhythm with a few points:
- Democracy is where the candidate with the most votes wins. Trump got fewer votes than Clinton. His victory is inherently undemocratic. This isn't the first time either; Bush got fewer votes than Gore yet the college gave him the Oval Office - and Republicans have the nerve to say the electoral college favours the Democrats. Hypocrisy much?
- The Obama administration extended the freedom to marry to thousands of LGBTs. Christians were told their freedom of religion does not include the freedom to discriminate. Now that Trump is in with an evangelical VP who actually believes homosexuality is something that can be cured with electro-shock therapy, they can roll back these legal protections for LGBTs. Freedom has lost.
- If the Republicans were so interested in preserving democracy then the Republican-controlled Senate wouldn't have illegally prevented Obama from appointing a Supreme Court Justice to replace Scalia. They said Obama didn't have the mandate but he did when people voted him into a second term. The Republicans only defend democracy when it plays into their hands.
Too much to reply, but suffice it to know Chris Ball is insignificant. The blood, violence and anarchy today is on the bad apple Dems.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
state enforced atheism failed in the USSR and communist China, killing millions of men, women and children on the way.
No amount of violence and intolerance will ever silence free thinking humanity.
