Can We be Reasonably Certain That God Wants Us to Follow a Specific Morality?

[Sunstone]

Even if we assume that god exists and even if we assume that it wants us to follow a specific morality, can we be reasonably certain that god wants us to follow that specific morality?

If so, then by what means or method do we know that god wants us to follow a specific morality?

 

[Sunstone]

I know of no reasonable means or method of inquiry that would allow us to know that god wants us to follow a specific morality.

 

[Terese]

For the Hindu religion, Dharma. The Lord has expressed the nature of Dharma as something one should follow in many scriptures.

 

[DawudTalut]

Even if we assume that god exists and even if we assume that it wants us to follow a specific morality, can we be reasonably certain that god wants us to follow that specific morality?

If so, then by what means or method do we know that god wants us to follow a specific morality?

Peace be on you.
Human are granted raw faculties.
The morality-teaching successfully takes one from basic raw faculties to higher moral stages. Then the true religion takes the person higher upto peace-with-God stage.

By the means of peace of heart and mind and inner self and external signs and divine blessings [for self and around], one will know 'it' is the right path.

 

[Sunstone]

For the Hindu religion, Dharma. The Lord has expressed the nature of Dharma as something one should follow in many scriptures.

So, if I understand you, you are saying that the scriptures can be trusted to reveal the nature of Dharma. But if we know that, then how do we know that?

 

[Sunstone]

Peace be on you.
Human are granted raw faculties.
The morality-teaching successfully takes one from basic raw faculties to higher moral stages. Then the true religion takes the person higher upto peace-with-God stage.

By the means of peace of heart and mind and inner self and external signs and divine blessings [for self and around], one will know 'it' is the right path.

Could you give a concrete, detailed example, please, of how we would know that, say, murder is wrong in the eyes of deity?

 

[DawudTalut]

Could you give a concrete, detailed example, please, of how we would know that, say, murder is wrong in the eyes of deity?

God says murder of an innocent is like taking life of all people.

 

[Kirran]

It's worth noting that the nature of God as often understood in faiths or forms of faiths which eschew 'classical monotheism' will approach this quite differently. If all existence is God, if God is the All and His personality is the personality of the Universe itself and beyond it, then morality becomes somewhat of an emergent conceptualisation of basic natural law.

 

[Laika]

Even if we assume that god exists and even if we assume that it wants us to follow a specific morality, can we be reasonably certain that god wants us to follow that specific morality?

If so, then by what means or method do we know that god wants us to follow a specific morality?

This will depend on how people cliam to know god and gods will. A revealed theology (based on revelation) or mysticial theology (intutition) and a natural theology (based on reason and inferrence) could well produce very different moralities due to the degree of authoritarianism or scope of individual autonomy and interpretation. In theory, the morality can be as varied as peoples conception of the relationship with god.

If we think about how morality is derived in secular forms, we can say it is based on what the law is, what governments, experts or respected authorities say, the work of leading philosophers and scientists in making discoveries which change how we see our relationship to the world, individual conscience and feeling, etc. Each morality is ultimately a reflection of our social organisation and is about functioning societies based on competiting interests. It is how these interests cliam to represent gods will that legitimises their earthly power and status.

As for how such a morality can cliam to be knowledge of god, the major role is going to be based on inferrence by attributing significance to events. (The only direct cliam will be through revealation or speaking or hearing god in person). If there is a good harvest, then surely god as the master of the weather and the soil is pleased? If a tribe wins a battle over another, was it nots gods will as a reflection of the triumph of good over evil?

An interesting example is the "mandate of heaven" in Chinese history: if a coup against the ruling government succeeded, it was legitimised as god's will. If they failed, it was taken that god was not on the side of the rebels. It was a retrospective reading of history and politics that "there must be a reason for this to have happened".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven

 

[Terese]

So, if I understand you, you are saying that the scriptures can be trusted to reveal the nature of Dharma. But if we know that, then how do we know that?

They are given importance though ones acharya(s) (teacher) We have a canon of scriptures that all Vaisnavas believe is authoritative, all believed to be God-inspired, due to the nature of guruparampara, succession of teachers and disciples.

 

[Kirran]

They are given importance though ones acharya(s) (teacher) We have a canon of scriptures that all Vaisnavas believe is authoritative, all believed to be God-inspired, due to the nature of guruparampara, succession of teachers and disciples.

I suppose the nature of Sunny's question is 'Why?' Why is that canon authoritative, why is that succession authoritative, what makes it more authoritative than others?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

God says murder of an innocent is like taking life of all people.

God didn't actually say that. It was Rabbinical commentary on the Talmud.

 

[Terese]

I suppose the nature of Sunny's question is 'Why?' Why is that canon authoritative, why is that succession authoritative, what makes it more authoritative than others?

If i may add, the authors Valmiki and Vyasa-dev's works, as well as many other authors, are considered divinely inspired due to the events that occurred during the times of their lives. A sampradaya from what little knowledge i have, becomes legitimate when the acharya who intends to do such a thing produces a commentary or commentaries on shastras that glorify Him. In my personal opinion, i would not say any Vaisnava succession is more 'authoritative' than any other, after all, they all worship Maha-Visnu, but they all look different due to the mood of the devotees

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Even if we assume that god exists and even if we assume that it wants us to follow a specific morality, can we be reasonably certain that god wants us to follow that specific morality?

If so, then by what means or method do we know that god wants us to follow a specific morality?

We can't because so many religions conflict in so many ways on morals & ethics as well as in fundamental doctrines.

 

[Kirran]

If i may add, the authors Valmiki and Vyasa-dev's works, as well as many other authors, are considered divinely inspired due to the events that occurred during the times of their lives. A sampradaya from what little knowledge i have, becomes legitimate when the acharya who intends to do such a thing produces a commentary or commentaries on shastras that glorify Him. In my personal opinion, i would not say any Vaisnava succession is more 'authoritative' than any other, after all, they all worship Maha-Visnu, but they all look different due to the mood of the devotees

OK, I see that r.e. V and V, as far as Vaishnava Avatara doctrine goes. So what would be in common would be that God is in some sense monotheistic and has Vishnu, Krishna or Rama has his ultimate form?

 

[Terese]

OK, I see that r.e. V and V, as far as Vaishnava Avatara doctrine goes. So what would be in common would be that God is in some sense monotheistic and has Vishnu, Krishna or Rama has his ultimate form?

Could you rephrase the question please?

 

[Kirran]

Could you rephrase the question please?

Sure, sorry - what makes you a Vaishnava? What would all Vaishnavas agree on while saying their varying sampradayas are different views of that?

 

[Tabu]

Even if we assume that god exists and even if we assume that it wants us to follow a specific morality, can we be reasonably certain that god wants us to follow that specific morality?

If so, then by what means or method do we know that god wants us to follow a specific morality?

Wonderful Question.
I will try to explain this with an example .
If a room is well lit , fully illuminated, would one have any difficulty walking around, wouldn't the dangers be clear , crystal clear.
Now , If the light gets faded , the vision become blurry , will not the obstruction become equally dim?.
Now , imagine an extreme third situation , where there is no light in the room , pitch dark , what do you think will happen in such a situation ? will we not stumble to each and every obstruction?
The same is the case with us , If the light within us is well lit we can see every thing clearly , if blurred we may need some assistance and if too low we may not see any thing , not able to identify what is right or wrong i.e what is morally correct .
Now , since it is great that you believe in a God and one God(or at least assume) , it becomes very easy to explain.
We believe that God is one and we all are his children ( spiritual) and that God is good.
So , what should be the original qualities of these godly children ?, shouldn't they be good , same as that of The Father.
Speaking about a good God , what qualities could you imagine for Him? , lets make a small list.
It would be all things nice like , Love , Power , Happiness , Peace , Knowledge, Bliss ..
Once we recognize these to be the qualities of the Father soul ,and that we are His beloved children , His image, we realize that we also have this fuel deep within us , all we need is just to dig it out and lit our lights by igniting this fuel.
At Brahmakumaris we do this digging and illuminating by meditation and positive affirmations , by constantly reminding that these are my original values , I am the child of Supreme Father who is the Ocean of Love , Peace , Power...
Once this light is lit , it illuminates your world around , now instead of asking yourself if something is right or wrong you may start asking , Does this suit the Child of God?

 

[Terese]

Sure, sorry - what makes you a Vaishnava? What would all Vaishnavas agree on while saying their varying sampradayas are different views of that?

What makes me a Vaisnava is that i believe Lord Visnu and His avataras as Supreme. What all Vaisnavas would agree is that Lord Visnu/Krsna/Rama, as well as other forms of the Lord like Lord Varaha or Lord Vamana, are Brahman, none else.

 

[Kirran]

What makes me a Vaisnava is that i believe Lord Visnu and His avataras as Supreme. What all Vaisnavas would agree is that Lord Visnu/Krsna/Rama, as well as other forms of the Lord like Lord Varaha or Lord Vamana, are Brahman, none else.

OK, so for example Swaminarayans aren't Vaishnavas because their founder said that some people might approach God as Shiva, that Vishnu and Shiva were one?

Last week I spent some time quite a bit with a lovely guy from ISKCON who very enthusiastically agreed that others might call God Shiva or Mother rather than Krishna. Would this be beyond the pale?