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Can we change our mind about what we believe?

PureX

Veteran Member
Can we change our mind about what we believe?

@PureX said that one CAN change their mind, but they won't because they don't want to deny their current understanding of 'what is'. #523

I disagree. One CAN change their mind, and they sometimes do, if they get new information that causes them to change their mind.
In this case they did not change their mind, it was changed for them by circumstance. So this is not a relevant scenario to this question.
However, if they don't change their mind, it is because they truly believe that what they believe is true according to their current understanding
Yes, I agree with this. And it is the fundamental problem with belief.

Believing can and often does become a self-righteous bias so strong that we simply will not let go of it. And therefor we claim that we can't let go of it, because that's how it feels to us. But in truth, it's just a righteousness bias that we have become so comfortable with and so dependent upon that we simply will not doubt it's presumed righteousness. And because we will not doubt it, we feel like we cannot possibly change our understanding of it. But we could actually choose to doubt it, at any time, and thereby recognize other viable cognitive possibilities. We just won't, and therefor think we can't.
It is not that they won’t change their mind, as if they are stubbornly refusing to change their mind, it is that they have no reason to change their mind.
It's similar to an addiction. Can an addict stop using their drug of choice? Yes, but no. They can, but they will not, because they beleve that they MUST HAVE IT to live. Even as it is killing them.

This is the desperate trap of the "true believer". And why they become so unteachable, and unchangeable. It's the trap that the religious zealots fall into. And it's the trap that the 'scientism cult' has fallen into. A trap that not even reason or reality can unlock, because they simpy will not let it.
Why should anyone deny that what they believe is true?
Because belief is a bias, and if we don't understand this, and respect it, that belief can become a very dangerous cognitive trap.
Conversely, why should anyone accept any belief as true if they don’t believe it is true?
They shouldn't. What we need to do is stop falling into this bias of "belief". So that we can keep an open mind and heart toward our experience of the world. But that will mean we have to humble ourselves, and accept that there is a great deal we simply do not know. And this is scary for people who have been living with the comfortable delusion that they can know things.
Why should atheists accept that God exists when they see no evidence for God’s existence?
They should accept the fact that God CAN exist. And that they will never have the evidence to prove otherwise. Because that is the truth of the moment.
I do not think that atheists are stubbornly refusing to believe in God.
Of course they are. And they are so intent on maintaining this phony self-righteous stance, even in the face of the obvious irrationality of it, that they lie, constantly, about it. They are no different from the religious zealots that likewise insist on the righteousness of their stance even in the face of the total irrationality and dishonesty of it. It's the disease of the "true believer". It drives the same result whether one chooses gods or no gods. And there are many other manifestation of this biased "belief" syndrome; people who believe that the whole of humanity is their innate enemy and that they must fight and compete with everyone for their very survival. People that believe their innate value (and everyone else's) depends upon how much material wealth they can accumulate. People who believe drugs or alcohol of sex or food or gambling, or dangerous behavior, or whatever else, are the only things that make life worth living. And on and on and on. We humans fall into the "true believer" trap in all kinds of ways. And we fight to stay there even when it's destroying our minds, and often our bodies. And we think we cannot possibly change our "truth". Whatever it is.

But we can.
I take them at their word when they say that they see no evidence for God.
Of course they see no evidence. They define it out of existence even before they look for it. That's the bias of the "true believer". Plenty of theists do the same thing.
It is not that they won’t believe in God, it is that they can’t believe in God because they see no evidence for God.
The problem is the BELIEF TRAP, not God.
The same holds true for me. It is not that I won’t disbelieve in God, it is that I can’t disbelieve in God because I see evidence for God.
Well, it's your bias. And you could humble yourself at any time, and let go of it.

That doesn't mean you'd have to deny the existence of God. Just that you'd have to accept that you simply don't know. The belief trap is all about pretending to know what we don't actually know. It's that pretense that we become addicted to, and then will not give up.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Can we change our mind about what we believe?

@PureX said that one CAN change their mind, but they won't because they don't want to deny their current understanding of 'what is'. #523
Anyone can change their mind about what they believe, they must truthfully challenge their beliefs and seek truth; however, as PureX said they generally wont but not because of understanding but because of the work required and the fear of knowing.
 

Tinkerpeach

Active Member
Well I can.

Would you believe me if I said I've seen god face to face? I doubt it. But it's true, at least in my reality. Yet I choose to look away. I no longer chase him. I no longer give him my faith or effort or good words.



I have seen god, and am a practicing atheist. Some call me stubborn.

I am the master and author of my beliefs.
You can’t look God in the face so your claim is false
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
You can’t look God in the face so your claim is false

I may not have looked a God in the face, but I'm pretty sure I saw One's ***.

155044324_greek-letter-phi-latin-symbol-greek-alphabet-math-.jpg
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Can we change our mind about what we believe?

@PureX said that one CAN change their mind, but they won't because they don't want to deny their current understanding of 'what is'. #523

I disagree. One CAN change their mind, and they sometimes do, if they get new information that causes them to change their mind. However, if they don't change their mind, it is because they truly believe that what they believe is true according to their current understanding. It is not that they won’t change their mind, as if they are stubbornly refusing to change their mind, it is that they have no reason to change their mind.

Why should anyone deny that what they believe is true?

Conversely, why should anyone accept any belief as true if they don’t believe it is true?

Why should atheists accept that God exists when they see no evidence for God’s existence?

I do not think that atheists are stubbornly refusing to believe in God. I take them at their word when they say that they see no evidence for God. It is not that they won’t believe in God, it is that they can’t believe in God because they see no evidence for God. The same holds true for me. It is not that I won’t disbelieve in God, it is that I can’t disbelieve in God because I see evidence for God.

In short... If one has free will, why can't they?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
All religious people say they have seen evidence, but it's because they accept a claim as true.
That's true, religious people have to accept the claims of the Messengers of God to be true, but they should not accept them as true without a thorough investigation of the Messenger, His character, His Life, and what He revealed in scripture.
If the evidence was actually enough to believe then everyone would believe.
Not everyone will ever view the evidence the same way since humans all have different minds so they all process the evidence differently. As such it is absurd to think that there is some kind of evidence for God that everyone would recognize. Even if God showed up on earth, if that was possible, not everyone would recognize God as God.

By not providing absolute proof, God set it up so we would have to have faith in order to believe.
Unless a god has a sadistic need to mess with us, there is no evidence that these claims are real. I'm only seeing belief based on faith because the evidence is not supporting a god and I highly doubt any believer would accept their own evidence if another religion had exactly the same.
There is no way to prove that the claims of a Messenger of God are true. Try to think about why.
All we can do is look at the evidence that the Messenger provided to back His claims.

I would accept any religion that had the same evidence as my religion. I do accept other religions, but not as fully as I accept the Baha'i Faith, since none of the other religions have any scriptures that were penned in the hand of the Prophets or Messengers.
I would love to have good evidence of a spirit realm.
There is evidence but there is no proof. The proof only comes after we die and experience the spirit realm.

I have no doubt that the spirit realm exists but I would sure like to know more about it! That knowledge is with God alone.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
In short... If one has free will, why can't they?
That is what I said. "One CAN change their mind, and they sometimes do, if they get new information that causes them to change their mind. However, if they don't change their mind, it is because they truly believe that what they believe is true according to their current understanding."

In other words, one can have a belief according to their current understanding and then change their mind about it if they have a new understanding.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Anyone can change their mind about what they believe, they must truthfully challenge their beliefs and seek truth; however, as PureX said they generally wont but not because of understanding but because of the work required and the fear of knowing.
Neither you or @PureX knows why people don't change their beliefs because you do not live inside their heads.

It might be true that 'some believers' have not truthfully challenged their beliefs and sought truth elsewhere.
It might be true that 'some believers' generally won't but not because of understanding but because of the work required and the fear of knowing.

But to make a blanket statement that this applies to ALL believers is illogical since it is the fallacy of hasty generalization, the fallacy of jumping to conclusions, and the fallacy of black and white thinking.

Do you know how many believers have not truthfully challenged their beliefs and sought truth elsewhere?
Do you know how many believers won't but not because of understanding but because of the work required and the fear of knowing?

Do you know which believers have not truthfully challenged their beliefs and sought truth elsewhere?
Do you know which believers won't but not because of understanding but because of the work required and the fear of knowing?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Anyone can change their mind about what they believe, they must truthfully challenge their beliefs and seek truth;
Hypothetically speaking, let's say that someone truthfully challenged their beliefs and sought truth and as a result they changed their beliefs.
How would they know the new belief was true?

Religious beliefs can never be proven to be true, it is only a matter of opinion, so they could just keep going from one religion to another all their lives.
 
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