Can we take apart Revelation together?

[jeager106]

We, collectively as a group, disect the book of Revelations?
There are keen minds here, those with a good solid understanding of the Bible and
the ability to state thoughts clearly w/o bias.
I think if we work together and exchange what we understand, perhaps back up our
assertions, with references, then we could come to some general conclusions
about the most mysterious, book in the Christian Bible.
Revelations seems to me to be a book about the ending of a system of things and a beginning
of a new age.
Can we do that together? I know something like this would help me understand Revelations
better.
Can we start with the notion that he book was put together from letters by the writer
John who was exiled to the isle of Platmos off the coast of Turkey, that he wrote in code
to the 7 churchs of Asia Minor?
That's a good place to start and could we discuss who the writer John was?
Some theologians write John was indeed the apostle John, still others write that the writing style in Revelation was very different from what the apostle John wrote in his letters earlier that
made it into canon.
Have at it as a collective group of Christians with the common goal of understanding one
book in the Bible. References to other books are o.k, even necessary to attempt to make sense of Revelations.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Have at it as a collective group of Christians with the common goal of understanding one
book in the Bible.

With such a goal in mind you might be better served by having the thread moved to the Christian DIR.

 

[jeager106]

O.K. How does one do that? I don't understand what DIR means. Can you shed light on that for me?

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

We, collectively as a group, disect the book of Revleations?
There are keen minds here, those with a good solid understanding of the Bible and
the ability to state thoughts clearly w/o bias.
I think if we work together and exchange what we understand, perhaps back up our
assertions, with references, then we could come to some general conclusions
about the mot mysterious, book in the Christian Bible.
Revelations seems to me to be a book about the ending of a system of things and a beginning
of a new age.
Can we do that together? I know something like this would help me understand Revelations
better.
Can we start with the notion that he book was put together from letters by the writer
John who was exiled to the isle of Platmos off the coat of Turkey, that he wrote in code
to the 7 churchs of Asia Minor?
That's a good place to start and could we discuss who the writer John was?
Some theologians write John was indeed the apostle John, still others write that the writing style in Revelation was very different from what the apostle John wrote in his letters earlier that
made it into canon.
Have at it as a collective group of Christians with the common goal of understanding one
book in the Bible. References to other books are o.k, even necessary to attempt to make sense of Revelations.

O.K. How does one do that? I don't understand what DIR means. Can you shed light on that for me?

I agree that the "light" has probably not been turned on. The content of the title you intend to reduntly discredit; you've observerably misspelled the title.

 

[jeager106]

I agree that the "light" has probably not been turned on. The content of the title you intend to reduntly discredit; you've observerably misspelled the title.

O.K. You have established you can read and spell. I can admit w/o reservation that arthritic fingers and hands can make typos.
I don't understand what you mean by saying "you intend to reduntly discredit"?
Did you mean redundantly?
How to you take that I mean to discredit anything?
If u r dun kerrecting me mizpellin' thet iz?
And making uncalled for speculations about my intent.

 

[savagewind]

Are you aware the Jehovah's Witnesses have already dissected it?

 

[savagewind]

If you post your question in the Jehovah's Witness DIR (Discuss Individual Religions) and ask any question you have about John's Revelations they will answer it. Not to worry about me sir. I'm not allowed to post there.

 

[Harikrish]

You can take apart revelations or ignore it altogether. It is an apocalyptic vision John had quite similar to people who experience hallucinations and bad dreams. There are a lot of cryptic symbols found in apocalyptic language which Freud a psychoanalyst discovered were actual subconscious sexual repressions. Freud wrote about these masked sexual fantasies in his "interpretations of dreams".
It will take an extreme case of voyeurism to probe and dissect the wet dreams of sexually repressed religious figures such as the disciple John and the prophets.

 

[e.r.m.]

We, collectively as a group, disect the book of Revleations?
There are keen minds here, those with a good solid understanding of the Bible and
the ability to state thoughts clearly w/o bias.
I think if we work together and exchange what we understand, perhaps back up our
assertions, with references, then we could come to some general conclusions
about the mot mysterious, book in the Christian Bible.
Revelations seems to me to be a book about the ending of a system of things and a beginning
of a new age.
Can we do that together? I know something like this would help me understand Revelations
better.
Can we start with the notion that he book was put together from letters by the writer
John who was exiled to the isle of Platmos off the coat of Turkey, that he wrote in code
to the 7 churchs of Asia Minor?
That's a good place to start and could we discuss who the writer John was?
Some theologians write John was indeed the apostle John, still others write that the writing style in Revelation was very different from what the apostle John wrote in his letters earlier that
made it into canon.
Have at it as a collective group of Christians with the common goal of understanding one
book in the Bible. References to other books are o.k, even necessary to attempt to make sense of Revelations.

Big task.
My perspective is that Revelation was written to the first century christian audience about first century issues. Someone once preached that every generation since Revelation was written thought the prophecies were about their direct future, never about hundreds of years after their own time. We are no different, thinking Revelation is talking about 21st Century United States. After hearing about this I became convinced that Revelation was a contemporary letter to first century Christians. Of course the final judgement has not yet been fulfilled. The lessons from the first century can be applied to all generations.

 

[Harikrish]

If you post your question in the Jehovah's Witness DIR (Discuss Individual Religions) and ask any question you have about John's Revelations they will answer it. Not to worry about me sir. I'm not allowed to post there.

Not everyone reacts the same to apocalyptic visions of doom and gloom. The measures were taken for your safety, I am sure.

 

[jeager106]

Big task.
My perspective is that Revelation was written to the first century christian audience about first century issues. Someone once preached that every generation since Revelation was written thought tit was writing about their direct future.

If you post your question in the Jehovah's Witness DIR (Discuss Individual Religions) and ask any question you have about John's Revelations they will answer it. Not to worry about me sir. I'm not allowed to post there.

Glad to see you responding to my posts my friend. I hope I didn't seem insulting to you.
If so please accept sincerest appolgies. I like the way you write in respones.
Not allowed "there"? O.K.
I'm aware the JW have disected much. I just wanted to enjoy the learned opinions of the fine people here.

 

[jeager106]

Big task.
My perspective is that Revelation was written to the first century christian audience about first century issues. Someone once preached that every generation since Revelation was written thought tit was writing about their direct future.

I understand & thank you.
(savagewind-thank you for explaining DIR)
I have read that Revelation was indeed writen for 1st century Christians.
I've also read it ws writen in a code understandable to 1st century Christians and the code is long lost. True? Don't know.
If John wrote in code then the visions and dreams may not be Freudian tho I can understand why one might think so.
What do "we" as a group of individuals thing Babylon the Great is?
An obvious answer would be the Roman Empire of the times.
Babylon was known as a civilization that were polythiest with many idols as gods.
So were the persecuting Romans.
Thoughts?
It's been said Babylon the Great also could refer to modern Chrisianity that
used false doctrines. Where does that come from please?
I read while in college that Revelation should not have been in canon.
Is that accepted dogma or speculation from disagreeing authorities?

 

[e.r.m.]

I understand & thank you.
(savagewind-thank you for explaining DIR)
I have read that Revelation was indeed writen for 1st century Christians.
I've also read it ws writen in a code understandable to 1st century Christians and the code is long lost. True? Don't know.
If John wrote in code then the visions and dreams may not be Freudian tho I can understand why one might think so.
What do "we" as a group of individuals thing Babylon the Great is?
An obvious answer would be the Roman Empire of the times.
Babylon was known as a civilization that were polythiest with many idols as gods.
So were the persecuting Romans.
Thoughts?
It's been said Babylon the Great also could refer to modern Chrisianity that
used false doctrines. Where does that come from please?
I read while in college that Revelation should not have been in canon.
Is that accepted dogma or speculation from disagreeing authorities?

I think Babylon was the Roman Empire. John wouldn't be aware of future false doctrines.

 

[jeager106]

I think Babylon was the Roman Empire. John wouldn't be aware of future false doctrines.

Say! There is a good point to ponder. I knew good things could come out of
this thread.Unless John had a vision of such? Or am I speculating w/o cause?

 

[savagewind]

Not everyone reacts the same to apocalyptic visions of doom and gloom. The measures were taken for your safety, I am sure.

I love that post! I don't know what it means but I think it's a compliment. I shall take it! Thank you.

 

[savagewind]

I think Babylon was the Roman Empire. John wouldn't be aware of future false doctrines.

Revelation does imply John could see the future.
Rev 1: 10 By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day
John was aware of future false doctrines.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them

 

[e.r.m.]

Say! There is a good point to ponder. I knew good things could come out of
this thread.Unless John had a vision of such? Or am I speculating w/o cause?

Thanks. If John did have a vision of future false doctrines, then we'd have to seek where on the timeline he was seeing, and not just presume he was talking about our time.

 

[jeager106]

Thanks. If John did have a vision of future false doctrines, then we'd have to seek where on the timeline he was seeing, and not just presume he was talking about our time.

Hummmm???? You are clear thinking & appreciated.

 

[jeager106]

Revelation does imply John could see the future.
Rev 1: 10 By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day
John was aware of future false doctrines.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them

More good thoughts savagwind. Thank you.

 

[Kolibri]

One thing to consider off the bat is that John is said to have received this 'disclosure' or 'uncovering' from the resurrected Jesus Christ. If we doubt that Jesus was resurrected than the whole book becomes a moot point because we will come to the conclusion that John was off his rocker. If Jesus had indeed been resurrected than there is no reason to discount the symbolism just because we have not deciphered it yet. (Re 1:1)

We are also told that this series of visions are presented "in signs." - All the characters and activities would need to be deciphered from examining other inspired writings. (Re 1:1)
And we are told it was a message to Jesus' slaves. (Re 1:1)

And we are told:
"Happy is the one who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy and who observe the things written in it." (Re 1:3)

So it makes sense that to observe we would need to understand. And if we understand we won't be terrified - but happy. From this, if the book is to be valid, it must be meant to be understood. And if any person is struggling with making the pieces come together in a way that makes sense and makes one happy, then they need to seek out Christ's slaves to put meaning to what is read.

Another thing to consider that beyond the praise, counsel, and admonition given to the 7 congregations of Asia, none of this is likely to have had a parallel prior to the "Lord's Day." (Re 1:10)
If we know when the Lord's Day began from other sources then we know the general time frame when these events take place.