Rick James
New Member
How can you have an opinion on heaven when you have to die to experience it?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Can you answer this question?
- Thread starter Rick James
- Start date
I believe others have seen/experienced the higher planes through their astral bodies (like Near-Death Experiencers). They can tell us about it as best as words can.
I have opinions on things neither I nor anybody else has actually experienced. They are not as strong as opinions about other things with more concrete evidence, oftentimes.
Usually even.
But I think I am agreeing with you when I say: Being overly confident about opinions on heaven is hubris.
Tom
Usually even.
But I think I am agreeing with you when I say: Being overly confident about opinions on heaven is hubris.
Tom
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
There is not much we know about heaven and near-death experiences are suspect due to the nature of how oxygen deprivation and spiking hormones can cause hallucinations mixed in with personal myths.
What we do know is what is in the revealed word of God. If one claims the Bible as the revealed word of God then one needs to realize that the Bible refers to a number of different heavens, and most of them are not what you are asking about.
Here is what we know about the Hebrew sha·ma′yim and the Greek ou·ra·nos′ as revealed in Bible texts:
Heaven — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
What we do know is what is in the revealed word of God. If one claims the Bible as the revealed word of God then one needs to realize that the Bible refers to a number of different heavens, and most of them are not what you are asking about.
Here is what we know about the Hebrew sha·ma′yim and the Greek ou·ra·nos′ as revealed in Bible texts:
Heaven — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Last edited:
Far as I remember, I always assumed "heaven" was not to be taken as if it were a real place. It was always perceived by me as an idealization - or as we children used to say, a "make-believe" place.
The trick, I used to think and still do, is not to picture it "as it is", because it probably does not exist as such anyway.
Instead, a person is supposed to be creative, authentic and decisive while conceiving and describing "heaven" as it would be if we could create it personally - as it should be if the decision falls upon each of us. Because for all practical intents and purposes, we do indeed.
To this day I am a bit disoriented by claims that heaven (or hell) literally exist. I suppose most of the people who claim to hold such a belief indeed do hold it... but it just sounds so very weird.
The role of the concept, it seems to me, is not to be "believed in" or even doubted; it is rather to serve as a means of stating and describing moral values and communicate them to others.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
1= Once people used to hear from travellers in meetings about far lands.
2= Then newspapers came. By reading local news which people could see true they trusted that newspapers told right about far-lands. Travelers would very too.
3= Then TV came, recording and then Live.
Somewhat similarly, Prophets with clean past, teach and show truth, morals, acceptance of prayers, Signs, etc and are helped by God against all odds....People see all for long time and start to cluster around him.....When Prophets give news about far-lands of spirituality [Paradise and Hell], people believe it too. Pious people of Prophets see true dreams in abundance about worldly life, and when they see dreams about next life, their faith get strong. All links are connected phenomenon and create full impression about existence of unseen reality.
The same way you can have an opinion on the morality of a person's actions when you didn't experience their situation to make the decision yourself. It's a simple word we who speak the English language like to call: Speculation.
arthra
Baha'i
Thanks for the great question... I think we could start by asking what is "heaven"... Is it a literal place reserved for souls after they depart from the body?
You can read much about descriptions of what some have said was heaven in many religions from Buddhism,Christianity, Islam .... Heaven is often described and delineated. We Baha'is do not have such descriptive views of heaven...
Is it a spiritual state or condition of being near God?
We believe this is a better definition for "heaven"... It is not after a place or location so much as a condition...of having a pure heart reflecting the attributes of God and one which is sensitive to the Word of God for this day...
"Know thou, of a truth, that if the soul of man hath walked in the ways of God, it will, assuredly return and be gathered to the glory of the Beloved," Bahá'u'lláh wrote. "By the righteousness of God! It shall attain a station such as no pen can depict, or tongue can describe."
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram
I am not so sure that you do have to die to experience it , heaven can also be a state of mind , although the heaven that most people think of is an abode where we can enjoy such a state of mind perminantly without the encumberance of a human body .
I am not so sure that you do have to die to experience it , heaven can also be a state of mind , although the heaven that most people think of is an abode where we can enjoy such a state of mind perminantly without the encumberance of a human body .
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
There is no proof that NDEs have anything to do with "higher planes". Therefore, and not notwithstanding omniscience, we can claim these claims to be false. Let's also remember that NDEs tend to be different from individual to individual. Surely if they were all transcended into the "higher planes" then they would see/feel the same thing.
The best bet is that NDEs are simply vivid hallucinations that make you unaware of the conscious.
And there is a substance called Ketamine that when injected, causes the same effects of an NDE, therefore confirming that the sensations are not transcendental.
Ketamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Draupadi
Active Member
One of the reasons is faith. Faith in certain people and their sayings, and texts.
I was answering the OP question as to how I feel I know about heaven. NDE's are just one of multiple things that have formed my view of heaven.
I don't want to sidetrack this thread into another debate about NDEs but my opinion (not claiming proof) is that they are genuine above the physical experiences. And, yes I have acquainted myself with all the counter-arguments out there including the ones mentioned above. Clarity of consciousness and knowledge of verifiable facts that couldn't have been learned through normal channels are some of the reasons for my position. And I also believe things like Ketamine can actually trigger genuine beyond the physical experiences.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Do you agree that you think you know of a heaven? Or are you saying that you are sure? Because they are two very different questions that sustain different answers. I would say the former is going to be your answer as you can form a fact from simply speculative opinion.
I would say I am 99% sure that my views of heaven are generally correct. Can't be 100% until I experience it.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Well then you are an extremely knowledgable man, more so than most people on this Earth and I would be blessed to have your knowledge.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Nah!
