Can you Claim Enlightenement Whilst Still Being a Follower?

[psychoslice]

We are only sheep as long as we believe we are sheep, and that is all it is really.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Buddha found enlightenment by going off on his own after sitting under the Bodhi tree, Yeshua became enlightened after his time alone in the wilderness .. So why would people presume by being a loyal sheep, one day they will become a shepherd?

Enlightenment is when you have answers to all your questions. That can happen when someone is a loyal sheep or has gone on his own way also. I had Sankara and Buddha as my gurus, but then I went my own way.

 

[Politesse]

Buddha found enlightenment by going off on his own after sitting under the Bodhi tree, Yeshua became enlightened after his time alone in the wilderness...
So why would people presume by being a loyal sheep, one day they will become a shepherd?

Neither of these men were isolated for their whole lives. They had their lessons to learn, too.

 

[arthra]

Could that be withdrawing oneself from the world, a shift in mind, self discipline and denying indulgance?

I think so... Prophet Muhammad went to Mount Hira regularly..and Baha'u'llah was on a mountain called Sar Galu...but there was a process of social experiences and a withdrawal from society and then a return to society.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is not essential to withdraw to the mountains though it makes a good story.

 

[Iti oj]

Right, but if such a state actually exists, and one was honest about it, it wouldn't mean that they weren't humble, wise, or open to learning. Or, is honesty not an aspect of enlightenment?

you did not answer my question .

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. ultimately any one able to claim would not claim it, for being humble, wise and open to learn are the biggest aspects.

What if the person has already learnt the biggest aspect? Then, it will only be a matter of fact statement. The person still retains his humbleness, wisdom and openness. Buddha said he has achieved enlightement and wanted to pass on the knowledge to people to lessen their sorrow. That is a Samyaksambuddha. The other type is Pratyekabuddha, but he/she is not interested in teaching. And lastly there are Sāvakabuddhas, who have achieved enlightenment. They might also lead others to enlightenment, but cannot teach the Dhamma in a time or world where it has been forgotten.
.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood#The_3_Types_of_Buddhahood

 

[Manss]

The one who wants to enlighten others should have access to heavenly and divinely sciences and knowledge, and if not, his words is something that mislead others. Sorrily many philosophers did so. They expressed somethings that came from their own minds without they have access to origin heavenly information about God or the other world.
Such philosophers opined somethings about creation, God and heaven that they were not corresponding with or according to realities and there was not a reliable and logical evidence for their self-establishing believes and sadly some groups of people were misguided by them. Although Buddhists believe Buddha was a divinely person, but in fact he was a philosopher that noticed some internal and spiritual power of human and the effectiveness of focusing on objects and sometimes, imaginations and mental dictations.
The real (major) prophets had some signs from God and were connected to each other in history and everyone brought a scripture from God. Also they brought a lot of social laws from God to people and they were able to create an international heavenly government in the world, based on God's guidance and commands.
Philosophers were something else. They were not connected to God and were not capable to see angels or talk them. The were just some ordinary persons that mostly worked based on their own thought, research and findings that sometimes were wrong.

Imam Alie said:
"If the idea of a philosopher is right, it will be a remedy and if it is wrong, it will be a malady"

 

[Kilgore Trout]

you did not answer my question .

The answer lies in unasking the question.


Do I sound enlightened enough? Maybe if I was wearing a robe it would be more enlighteny.

 

[psychoslice]

I see everyone as enlightened, its just that most are ignorant and don't realize it.