Can you truly be atheist?

[angel888]

Deut said:that the Sons of God had a thing about women.


I was not discussing the sons of God, the topic I responded to was how do we know Jesus was divine or did he ever claim he was divine.

The answer is a most certain Yes,! since he claimed to be the son of God and the bible teaches us Christians he was born of the Virgin Mary concieved by the Holy Spirit.

This makes one divine.

Angel

 

[Halcyon]

Please post a quote of jesus saying "i am the son of god" or "i was conceived of the holy spirit". I think you'll find it hard to, because he didn't.
He said he and god are as one, yep, but so am i and so are you, for the kingdom of god is within us - if you believe that sort of thing. Jesus was the son of a man called joseph and a woman called mary but he, like us, was a child of god.

Back to the original thread;

I was not aware that there was such a thing as a "prior to" the big bang.

New theories suggest time existed before the singularity, i watch a lot of documentaries.

nor am I willing to grant that "prior to the big bang singularity" is a meaningful phrase.

Why not?

Why might that be relevant?

Why? Because i'm interested, if you have no opinion on the subject that's fine, i'm just curious what atheists think about the origins of the universe.:sarcastic

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

New theories suggest time existed before the singularity, i watch a lot of documentaries.

Some theories raise the concept of negative time as a mathematic abstraction. It is simple naivete to think of this as being in any way comparable to current usage.

Why not?

Because I've yet to see it imbued with meaning relevant to the topic under discussion. If you have, and have something to share, feel free to do so.

Why? Because i'm interested, if you have no opinion on the subject that's fine, i'm just curious what atheists think about the origins of the universe.:sarcastic

I suspect that your're being more than a little disingenuous here, but this should become clear one way or another.

 

[Halcyon]

:banghead3 Its like trying to get blood from a stone!

I'm mearly interested in the atheist perspective, i'm not trying to push my beliefs onto anyone or rubbish anyones beliefs.

Because I've yet to see it imbued with meaning relevant to the topic under discussion. If you have, and have something to share, feel free to do so.

I'll try and word this so its as easy to understand as possible. I would like to know atheist peoples viewpoints on how our reality came into being, my belief (clearly) is that god was involved, atheists don't hold that belief therefore i am interested in their opinion on the subject because it is different to mine and i am curious, understand?
I've taken the thread in a slightly different direction because i realise now that my original question, the title of the thread, was flawed - i could start a new thread but do i really need to?

I suspect that your're being more than a little disingenuous here, but this should become clear one way or another.

No hidden motives here, i'm not out to convert you!

 

[Reverend Jeremiah]

If you consider this sentence; "By using occams razor with this knowledge, we can rule out the trickster gods (or demons) by ruling that they are manmade until proof presents itself." Is using the razor as proof, then you have taken me out of context. Ignorance implies that I lack knowledge of it, yet the form in which I used it is correct. Occams is mearly a tool to simplify, not a proof. Ruling out does not mean that NO proof exists for it, just that it is problematic at best. which is why I SPECIFICALLY mentioned "until proof presents itself".
Did you choose to take me out of context to try to make me look ignorant? Or was it an honest mistake?
...is there a lack of hugs in here...LOL.
So, hows the weather?

 

[Reverend Jeremiah]

Now Halcyon, I used to be a wiccan. Some can argue that they too are gnostics. But I gave that up a long time ago when I started to study materialistic science instead of mysticism. My transition was not easy though, mysticism has a hard draw to it, and the emotional highs that I got from contemplating them were quite enjoyable.

 

[Reverend Jeremiah]

Halcyon. Not all atheists are in agreement of that subject. The only thing we definitely agree with is that there were no gods or goddesses present at anytime/anyplace in the universe. some atheists find the CBR to be decent proof of a big bang, others do not. But you must admit that your question is a bit loaded as well. To suggest that everything needs a creator is to ultimately suggest that your creator ALSO must have a creator, and so on, and so on ad infintum. So, why not just simply say the the universe has existed forever. Or that the elements of mater have existed forever (better wording.)
Now I like the idea of the ocsilating universe model, but I have no evidence for it. I do not rely on faith for this model either because it will not hurt my feelings one bit if the open expansion model is true.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'll try and word this so its as easy to understand as possible. I would like to know atheist peoples viewpoints on how our reality came into being, my belief (clearly) is that god was involved, atheists don't hold that belief therefore i am interested in their opinion on the subject because it is different to mine and i am curious, understand?

Actually, I thought I understood and answered you last time when I wrote: "I have none with which I'm comfortable, ..."

Thank you for clarifying that you're taking the thread in a new direction. I was mistakenly under the impression that you were approaching the same topic from a different direction. My mistake, and my apologies ...

By the way: welcome to the forums.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Did you choose to take me out of context to try to make me look ignorant?

You're doing fine. The weather, on the other hand, sucks - a perception no doubt biased from having just recently returned to the Midwest from Key West.

 

[Reverend Jeremiah]

Deut. Did you know that every time you use abrasive emphasis in your posts, you make sweet baby Jesus cry?
lol

 

[linwood]

Now i understand that atheism is a believe system, not as i thought, the default position.

Actually atheism is the default position at birth.
No human has a belief in a deity until they have been subjected to some form of religion.
It is up to that person at that time to accept or reject that God.

but like you say as of yet there is no evidence in support of any of the theories,

But you don`t need any "theory to be atheist.
Atheism doesn`t rely on a creation tale or a written moral guide.

There is really no "system" as far as belief system goes.

The onyl commandment of the atheist is "Thou shall have no Gods"

Everything else is up for grabs.

 

[linwood]

Oops sorry, my mistake. But now see i'm a bit confused again. Maybe if i approach it from a different angle;

Can atheists please tell their beliefs on the creation prior to the big bang singularity.

Most atheist beliefs are "I don`t know"

It`s perfectly valid and correct.

I was not aware that there was such a thing as a "prior to" the big bang.

You would be if you didn`t use "revealed Faith" for the foundation of your beliefs.

 

[Reverend Jeremiah]

how about the atheist who says "who cares!?!" about gods and goddesses?

 

[linwood]

how about the atheist who says "who cares!?!" about gods and goddesses?

I thought that was agnostics.

 

[Reverend Jeremiah]

Well, I used to think that also. But I am unsure about it now. If Atheism is the default position for all biological life (and I do believe this is so), then that attitude should also be added to the definition of atheism. My 3 year old son cares not aboout gods, My wife doesnt care about gods (unless its a funny joke...lol..)

Maybe atheism and agnosticism have a lot more incomon than we think it does.

 

[linwood]

Maybe atheism and agnosticism have a lot more incomon than we think it does.

I`m well aware of this, now how to convince those stubborn agnostics?

 

[Reverend Jeremiah]

LOL...leave a trail of crumbled oreo cookies leading into the local American Atheist headquarters?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Atheism and agnosticism address different domains.

 

[linwood]

C`mon Deut, you know you want the Oreos.

Follow the Oreos

:jiggy:

 

[linwood]

how about the atheist who says "who cares!?!" about gods and goddesses?

Actually I just ran across this term.
"apatheism"

I like it, how many apatheists do you know?