Canada anti-islamophobia motion M103

[MD]

Can't wait for the rest of the Islamist defense squad to arrive!

 

[YmirGF]

Note: This is NOT a new law. It is a motion. The likely reason such a motion passed was because it is rather vague, but more importantly, it is non-binding. In other words it means, "Wouldn't it be spiffy if we did something about a given problem but are by no means compelled to actually do anything." It makes parliamentarians seem like they care while not forcing them to give more than lip service to the idea. In a very real sense, this motion means little.

@9-10ths_Penguin ... would you say that is more or less correct?

 

[icehorse]

Note: This is NOT a new law. It is a motion. The likely reason such a motion passed was because it is rather vague, but more importantly, it is non-binding. In other words it means, "Wouldn't it be spiffy if we did something about a given problem but are by no means compelled to actually do anything." It makes parliamentarians seem like they care while not forcing them to give more than lip service to the idea. In a very real sense, this motion means little.

@9-10ths_Penguin ... would you say that is more or less correct?

If you're playing a long game, and your long term goal is to undermine secularism, than this motion is a win. This motion is just a tad stronger than the motion that was tabled a few months back.

If you care about secularism, then you can never give an inch. Because folks who want to undo secularism are pernicious and relentless. One tactic that seems to work well for these folks is to take tiny, tiny steps. At each point (like this one), we see (like in this thread), folks taking the stance "nothing to worry about folks". But inch by inch what we value gets undermined.

 

[YmirGF]

If you're playing a long game, and your long term goal is to undermine secularism, than this motion is a win. This motion is just a tad stronger than the motion that was tabled a few months back.

If you care about secularism, then you can never give an inch. Because folks who want to undo secularism are pernicious and relentless. One tactic that seems to work well for these folks is to take tiny, tiny steps. At each point (like this one), we see (like in this thread), folks taking the stance "nothing to worry about folks". But inch by inch what we value gets undermined.

I suppose you could think that if you wanted to get all hysterical about it. The point is that we will have to see what effect the motion has - if any. My guess (and hope) is that it is just empty air with politicians making a few quick points to show they actually care. They don't.

 

[icehorse]

I suppose you could think that if you wanted to get all hysterical about it. The point is that we will have to see what effect the motion has - if any. My guess (and hope) is that it is just empty air with politicians making a few quick points to show they actually care. They don't.

I understand that my position is an easy one to attack. That said, instead of the label "hysterical", how about "vigilant" ?

And no, we don't have to "wait and see". We can raise a ruckus when this sort of thing happens.

 

[YmirGF]

I understand that my position is an easy one to attack. That said, instead of the label "hysterical", how about "vigilant" ?

And no, we don't have to "wait and see". We can raise a ruckus when this sort of thing happens.

Perhaps I'm just more cynical and see this motion as little more than political opportunism with no teeth whatsoever.

 

[icehorse]

Perhaps I'm just more cynical and see this motion as little more than political opportunism with no teeth whatsoever.

And it could be that this motion has no teeth directly. But this motion or others to come later will start to have teeth. If nothing else, it is a step towards normalizing the nonsense idea of "Islamophobia".

 

[YmirGF]

And it could be that this motion has no teeth directly. But this motion or others to come later will start to have teeth. If nothing else, it is a step towards normalizing the nonsense idea of "Islamophobia".

The idea is already "normalized" in popular culture though, Icehoresy!

 

[idav]

House of Commons passes anti-Islamophobia motion

'Liberals rejected an attempt by Saskatchewan Conservative MP David Anderson to remove the word "Islamophobia" from the motion and change the wording to "condemn all forms of systemic racism, religious intolerance and discrimination of Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus and other religious communities.'

Wel the way some of you all target muslims verbally I don't blame them for having it, seems they see an issue, like certain churches named mosques being targeted for example. Doesn't change that it's a study and they need to give recommendations at a later date.

 

[YmirGF]

Wel the way some of you all target muslims verbally I don't blame them for having it, seems they see an issue, like certain churches named mosques being targeted for example. Doesn't change that it's a study and they need to give recommendations at a later date.

It's not even a study, idav, unless I read it wrong. It's more of a proposal to do a study.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christianity is nothing but a kitten compared to the ugly beliefs of Islam.

Have you actually read the Bible? What ISIS has been doing looks a lot like in the OT when god was giving orders for war. And, for me personally, my greatest dangers--especially to my rights and liberties--are not Muslims but Conservative Christians who want my rights and liberties to come beneath religious beliefs and hatred and discrimination.

By the way this whole thing was started via petition by a Muslim brotherhood member .

Any links?

If you're playing a long game, and your long term goal is to undermine secularism, than this motion is a win. This motion is just a tad stronger than the motion that was tabled a few months back.

If you care about secularism, then you can never give an inch. Because folks who want to undo secularism are pernicious and relentless. One tactic that seems to work well for these folks is to take tiny, tiny steps. At each point (like this one), we see (like in this thread), folks taking the stance "nothing to worry about folks". But inch by inch what we value gets undermined.

YmirGF seems to have a much more rational, reasonable, and probable explanation than conspiracies of some dark/mysterious forces working to undermine secularism in the West. Sure, some would like that, but those threats are coming from within, not from foreign lands. Conservative Republicans/Christians can strip America of secularism long before Muslims can.

 

[idav]

It's more of a proposal to do a study.

Yeah something like that.

 

[YmirGF]

YmirGF seems to have a much more rational, reasonable, and probably explanation that conspiracies of some dark/mysterious forces working to undermine secularism in the West. Sure, some would like that, but those threats are coming from within, not from foreign lands. Conservative Republicans/Christians can strip America of secularism long before Muslims can.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

 

[icehorse]

Have you actually read the Bible? What ISIS has been doing looks a lot like in the OT when god was giving orders for war. And, for me personally, my greatest dangers--especially to my rights and liberties--are not Muslims but Conservative Christians who want my rights and liberties to come beneath religious beliefs and hatred and discrimination.

Any links?

YmirGF seems to have a much more rational, reasonable, and probably explanation that conspiracies of some dark/mysterious forces working to undermine secularism in the West. Sure, some would like that, but those threats are coming from within, not from foreign lands. Conservative Republicans/Christians can strip America of secularism long before Muslims can.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. It's simply baked into the scripture and the ideology. All that's necessary is for children to be indoctrinated (call it culture if you're an apologist), and this pernicious undermining will continue.

Yes, yes, I know, at any given moment in time each event seems small, perhaps even without impact, but ideologies like Islam are a multi-generational force. If you can step back and take a relativist stance, you can kind of admire such ideologies. They are ideas that have been constructed to survive from generation to generation. That's a pretty amazing accomplishment.

Too bad that this collection of surviving ideas is so regressive.

 

[icehorse]

Wel the way some of you all target muslims verbally I don't blame them for having it, seems they see an issue, like certain churches named mosques being targeted for example. Doesn't change that it's a study and they need to give recommendations at a later date.

I infer from this that you hold that Islam is no more dangerous than other "religions"?

 

[Nakosis]

You have an option: inform yourself or embarrass yourself.

Motion 103​

Don't we all...

 

[icehorse]

The idea is already "normalized" in popular culture though, Icehoresy!

I'm not quite ready to throw in that towel, and I have Confucius on my side

 

[George-ananda]

Where the heck is this big bad Islamophobia that we need to be so concerned about? You may be able to find a few incidents here and there but as a significant phenomena in the US and Canada, it doesn't exist.

I think the media is hyperactive in creating and using these terms. From what I see 99% of North Americans don't mistreat anyone because of race, ethnicity or religion. I wish to coin the term Islamophobia-phobia.

 

[YmirGF]

I infer from this that you hold that Islam is no more dangerous than other "religions"?

I should add that I neither agree with this motion or support the need for such an effort.

Just out of curiosity, how many posters in this thread actually live in Canada?

I'm pretty sure @YmirGF does, LOL.

 

[Vinayaka]

Just out of curiosity, how many posters in this thread actually live in Canada?

I too find how citizens from other lands seem to know so much a bout countries other than their own.

Not a poster, (guess I am now) just a watcher, but I watch this with some interest. I've had quite a bit of interaction with Muslims over the years, teaching them in school, work, etc.

I think this is just addressing the extreme end of things, and if that's true, I agree. Boss and son and daughter went on a hot air balloon ride a few years back over the multi-cultural area of town we live in. The operator, not knowing we were white Hindus totally supportive of the ethnic and diverse aspects of our community went on a wild ignorance filled rant about Hindus, Muslims, and any other non-white non-Christian immigrant. Filipinos, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Sikhs, ... everyone was included in his hate. My son felt like dumping him overboard, but figured he might not be able to land the contraption.

So I think its folks like that the government is making a point of. Not much else, in actual law, as we already have hate speech laws, and have used them in the past.

Here's some short history lessons for non-Canadians ... When is it hate speech?: 7 significant Canadian cases