Can't be a pagan.

[Mr Cheese]

I posted this in general debate but I thought it might go over better here.




Late last night I was told that I can not be a Pagan because it requires going back to an older, more primitive style of consciousness...social as well as individual...it requires monotheism to be unlearned. But no matter what I believe I will can not unlearn monotheist. Furthermore all religion is a way of knowing the truth...without having to comprehend the truth.

Well Hinduism IS pagan

and while there are many forms of santa dharma???? or whatever the correct term for Hinduism IS....

There is at least one form that advocates all the numerous "Gods" as manifestations of one "God"

.........

In Judaism, we find, unlike in the translatted Bible, there are numerous names of God (Despite the assertion that God's name is YHVH)... if we look deeper into Jewish mysticism, there are numerous (well over 50) names for God, and like the above example of Hinduism, these names can be considred to be the way God manifests... and not actually God's name....

to conclude:

Paganism is a polytheistic religion (in whatever form)...but it can be like the above examples. Afterall, Hindusim which IS a pagan religion, is rather darn OLD

 

[Mr Cheese]

Hi, I believe you can be a Pagan if you are monotheist. I explain it like this.
Life is complete energy, which we term as Spirit, the All, the One that is, God, the Force, etc.
We know that there is something that is within and without.
However, within Paganism AND monotheism, the beauty of that knowledge is that you can relate to different aspects (or faces) of that one Spirit through the many different Gods and Goddesses. Or the one or two that you most like to walk with.
Also, next time someone tells you that you cannot be Pagan and monotheist, remind them of the story of the Hindu man who wanted to find out how many Gods within Hinduism there were.
He collected information from village to village, asking them if they knew how many Gods were worshipped within Hinduism, he built up quite a collection!
Then one day, he came across a woman who said to him "Visit the wise man at the top of the mountain, he will tell you how many Gods there are".
So he struggled up the mountain, reached the top, and went to see the wise man.
He asked him, "I have been told that you know how many Gods there are in Hinduism, is this correct?"
The wise old man said "Yes, I know how many Gods are worshipped in Hinduism".
The man waited for his answer. "Well?" he said, impatiently.
The wise old man smiled. "There is only one."
"ONE?!?!" cried the man. "Well which one?!" he asked, throwing his lists and collection of names of Gods on the floor.
"All of them" replied the wise old man.

ok, I'll shurrup now...

 

[painted wolf]

I'm a monotheist... pantheist... Most first nations people I've met are... does that make us "not pagan"?

wa:do

 

[Azakel]

I'm a monotheist... pantheist... Most first nations people I've met are... does that make us "not pagan"?

wa:do

Maybe it depends on who you talk to ^_^
It seems that the term Pagan is(has become) useless. It's to broad a term and people can't really agree on what it means. Some will say it any religion that's not Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. Some will say that, but only if there of a European origin. And then there are other that will say Paganism is Just any Earth-Based(Nature) Religion.
So PW what do you like? Are you a Pagan? ^_^

 

[Mr Cheese]

Maybe it depends on who you talk to ^_^
It seems that the term Pagan is(has become) useless. It's to broad a term and people can't really agree on what it means. Some will say it any religion that's not Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. Some will say that, but only if there of a European origin. And then there are other that will say Paganism is Just any Earth-Based(Nature) Religion.
So PW what do you like? Are you a Pagan? ^_^

Paganism has certain key ingredients

altars
sacrifices on them, even if they are only incense
multiple deities, whether they are all one or not
generally, anscestor reverence
respect for the earth

These are key core ingredients I can think of, off the top of my head

 

[painted wolf]

I always thought pagan meant "not Roman/christian".

wa:do

 

[Gentoo]

Paganism has certain key ingredients

altars
sacrifices on them, even if they are only incense
multiple deities, whether they are all one or not
generally, anscestor reverence
respect for the earth

These are key core ingredients I can think of, off the top of my head

Even those aren't shared by all pagans..

 

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese
Paganism has certain key ingredients

altars
sacrifices on them, even if they are only incense
multiple deities, whether they are all one or not
generally, anscestor reverence
respect for the earth

These are key core ingredients I can think of, off the top of my head
Even those aren't shared by all pagans..

....

no but they are present in all pretty much...

name me an exception...

 

[J Bryson]

Paganism has certain key ingredients

altars
sacrifices on them, even if they are only incense
multiple deities, whether they are all one or not
generally, anscestor reverence
respect for the earth

These are key core ingredients I can think of, off the top of my head

By those standards, the RCC could be considered pagan.

Altars: Check
Sacrifices: Incense, symbolic sacrifice of the Son of God
Multiple deities: Holy Trinity, all one
Ancestor reverence: Not so much. However, Saints may be considered a substitution.
Respect for the Earth: There is a long tradition within the church of respect for the earth, though it has been unevenly applied through the centuries.

 

[painted wolf]

no but they are present in all pretty much...

name me an exception...

First Nations peoples...

wa:do

 

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese
Paganism has certain key ingredients

altars
sacrifices on them, even if they are only incense
multiple deities, whether they are all one or not
generally, anscestor reverence
respect for the earth

These are key core ingredients I can think of, off the top of my head
Even those aren't shared by all pagans..

....

no but they are present in all pretty much...

name me an exception...

Me. I don't have an alter, I don't make sacrifices and I don't believe in the dieties the way most other pagans do. So are you telling me that I am not a pagan?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Me. I don't have an alter, I don't make sacrifices and I don't believe in the dieties the way most other pagans do. So are you telling me that I am not a pagan?

sounds like you arent, yes....

what DO you have then?

sacrifices can be just incense, or a bowl of water....
some leave food...

how does your "paganism" manifest?

 

[Gentoo]

sounds like you arent, yes....

what DO you have then?

sacrifices can be just incense, or a bowl of water....
some leave food...

how does your "paganism" manifest?

I know what sacrifices can be, thank you, I just don't see a need for them.

I may not fit into your prelabled package of what a pagan should be, and to me, that's the best thing of paganism: it's a huge gray area.

I would be careful about labeling others as you see fit, exceptions abound.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I know what sacrifices can be, thank you, I just don't see a need for them.

I may not fit into your prelabled package of what a pagan should be, and to me, that's the best thing of paganism: it's a huge gray area.

I would be careful about labeling others as you see fit, exceptions abound.

so you dont see the use for sacrifices...

perhaps I should have been clearer, paganism incorporates all or just some of my afformentioned list....

Thus I assume you are a pagan going by my definition.

Unless again you would like to discuss how you are pagan yet "work" outsides the "markers" of paganism

 

[Gentoo]

so you dont see the use for sacrifices...

perhaps I should have been clearer, paganism incorporates all or just some of my afformentioned list....

Thus I assume you are a pagan going by my definition.

Unless again you would like to discuss how you are pagan yet "work" outsides the "markers" of paganism

Just to play devil's advocate )): Why bother having such a list if there are going to be those that don't fit?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Just to play devil's advocate )): Why bother having such a list if there are going to be those that don't fit?

well as I have attempted to say, the list was a check list of pagan elements that are found in all forms of paganism (I am willing to bet, pretty much)....

Like I said, or tried to...

the list refelcts some elements of paganism, some forms have all of them, some may only have one or more....

but I suspect all forms have one or more....

....

I used to be more into paganism myself.... hence the list, which *** I also said, was off the top of my head....

 

[Guitar's Cry]

There is certainly something useful about defining something--even in the broadest sense. But like most social movements, paganism defines itself and is often hard to nail down. For instance, postmodernism and existentialism are also in this category of the hard-to-define. Much academic sweat is drawn arguing about the characteristics of each.

So really, if you see yourself as fitting into this culture, I would say you're probably a pagan.

Take, for example, Christian Wiccans. Imagine their issues with definition to anyone outside the culture, especially since pagan is a term originally meant to mean "not Christian."

 

[Mr Cheese]

Take, for example, Christian Wiccans. Imagine their issues with definition to anyone outside the culture, especially since pagan is a term originally meant to mean "not Christian."

not christian?

nah it meant country dweller...

or person living outside the city of rome....

 

[AlsoAnima]

not christian?

nah it meant country dweller...

or person living outside the city of rome....

In the days of Catholic domination, it meant anyone who wasn't a Christian or a Jew.

 

[Mr Cheese]

In the days of Catholic domination, it meant anyone who wasn't a Christian or a Jew.

he stated what it originally meant, not what it became

one online dictionary:

pagan http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pagan c.1375, from L.L. paganus "pagan," in classical L. "villager, rustic, civilian," from pagus "rural district," originally "district limited by markers," thus related to pangere "to fix, fasten," from PIE base *pag- "to fix" (see pact). Religious sense is often said to derive from conservative rural adherence to the old gods after the Christianization of Roman towns and cities; but the word in this sense predates that period in Church history, and it is more likely derived from the use of paganus in Roman military jargon for "civilian, incompetent soldier," which Christians (Tertullian, c.202; Augustine) picked up with the military imagery of the early Church (e.g. milites "soldier of Christ," etc.). Applied to modern pantheists and nature-worshippers from 1908. Paganism is attested from 1433.