Cant we all just get along?

[Riverwolf]

Organized religion has spent thousands of years suggesting, initiating, and organizing some of the most heinous crimes against humanity that we'll ever know, and the only reason that the individuals are able to carry through with these crimes is because religion takes away personal responsibility (God said this ok, it's His will). So no, we cannot all get along until these religious organizations and their teachings are disbanded. Once everyone is forced to accept personal responsibility for all their actions will we finally see the morality and humanity come out in people that will allow us to all 'get along'.

Only because most organized religions (not all of them) forget to teach that we still have our duties to humanity, and we should perform them as if God, etc. didn't exist. At best, the "mysterious ways" thing should only be used to help cope with failure (alongside trying to figure out how the failure occurred so it wouldn't happen again.)

 

[Orias]

Can you give an example of one good, morally decent thing a monotheist can do but and atheist CANNOT do?

An atheist can be a serial killer, a theist can be a serial killer. Personal belief has little to do with the matter besides that which one wishes to manipulate.

Theists tend to be more sacrificial, atheist tend to be more superficial. But really, they can both possess the same counter parts.

Sure some but very few religious folks now days do some terrible things, but the evil is that as humans we allow it.

Whilst you spend the rest of the day thinking about that, think of one evil thing a believer can do in the name of belief (and has done) which an atheist would never dream of doing. Remember... we're talking about in the name of beliefs here.

.

Think more along the lines of human conditioning instead of what an atheist or a theist would do, like all things there are extremes and extremists, so there will always be violent encounter, physically, verbally, and even in ignorance as to what we are aware of.

Thought of one already? Thought so.

This is just unnecessary.

 

[chinu]

All religions tell the same story essentially, however I never see any of them getting together to help people. Couldn't they do more common good working together?

People --- is not the name of a single person, to whom we can give any personal tution.

Ahh... a helpless world, will ever remain helpless.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[ryanam]

An atheist can be a serial killer, a theist can be a serial killer. Personal belief has little to do with the matter besides that which one wishes to manipulate.

Theists tend to be more sacrificial, atheist tend to be more superficial. But really, they can both possess the same counter parts.

Sure some but very few religious folks now days do some terrible things, but the evil is that as humans we allow it.

Think more along the lines of human conditioning instead of what an atheist or a theist would do, like all things there are extremes and extremists, so there will always be violent encounter, physically, verbally, and even in ignorance as to what we are aware of.

Same as every other answer I've seen from what would sound like a theist's point of view.

You say that theists tend to me more sacrificial... can you expand on that? As long as they're sacrificing themselves, or their own possessions for what they believe, fine. Don't involve the rest of us in this ritual.

You mention atheists as being superficial... if you're referring to the fact that non-believers tend to be more concerned with only what is observably obvious or existing, then well done. Spot on. If you're trying to say non-believers are any more shallow (which is another definition of the word) then you're stereotypical to a point at which you cannot be taken seriously because no statistic in existence could possibly even come close to coming to that conclusion.

It's exactly the subject of human conditioning that I'm referring to. A healthy logically-minded human with no knowledge of the existence of god would not think it appropriate to mutilate his child's genitalia unless he was not of sound mind.

Bring religion into it and you have perfect reason to hack away at a child's genitalia. It makes good, logical people say and do repulsive things which are, in their own twisted right, made 'normal' by religion. I'm yet to meet an extremist atheist by the way. "BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG OR WE'LL BRING WAR UPON YOU!!!" I think not.

You're thinking too much about the statements I made. It's a very simple concept with very simple answers. Dodge them, over analyze them and twist them up as much as you want... we both know what I'm getting at. Atheists don't blow buildings up, circumcise children, stone women to death for adultry, or murder people for apostasy in the name of atheism.

 

[ryanam]

Originally Posted by ryanam
Can you give an example of one good, morally decent thing a monotheist can do but and atheist CANNOT do?
So, just because monotheists and atheists are just as capable of doing the same moral things, automatically means monotheists are evil?

I'd think it would mean they're on the same moral ground.

Quote:
Whilst you spend the rest of the day thinking about that,
Hardly, my response was determined in less than a minute. I've already been asked this question before, and I spent about... 2 minutes thinking about it before determining my answer which you see above. It hasn't changed my stance on religion one bit.

Quote:
think of one evil thing a believer can do in the name of belief (and has done) which an atheist would never dream of doing. Remember... we're talking about in the name of beliefs here.
Nothing. Atheists are just as capable of evil as theists. Little things like circumcision (the only somewhat legit example ever provided to me) pale in comparison to other evils in the world committed by both. __________________

I'm tired of explaining how badly people (especially theists) are missing the point to this.

It's a simple observation which you've twisted and over analyzed.

I'm talking about IN THE NAME OF BELIEF. Would an atheist stone a woman for adultery, bring down buildings with aircraft, mutilate the genitalia of children or murder people for apostasy, in sound mind, in the name of atheism?

I'm not talking about all the crimes and atrocities which are committed NOT in the name of religion... they're besides the point and both atheists and theists are perfectly capable of committing them.

It's not a difficult premise to understand. It's observed fact.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm talking about IN THE NAME OF BELIEF. Would an atheist stone a woman for adultery, bring down buildings with aircraft, mutilate the genitalia of children or murder people for apostasy, in sound mind, in the name of atheism?

Does atheism have a name to hold? I thought atheism was a lack of belief, not a declared belief.

 

[Photonic]

Does atheism have a name to hold? I thought atheism was a lack of belief, not a declared belief.

I think that's the point he's getting at, someone who doesn't adhere to strict Theism is unlikely to go and do those things if they are considered of sound mind.

I'm all for getting along with absolutely everyone, just as long as their views don't impede scientific knowledge.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think that's the point he's getting at, someone who doesn't adhere to strict Theism is unlikely to go and do those things if they are considered of sound mind.

Therefore, it's sanity that becomes the issue, not religion.

I'm all for getting along with absolutely everyone, just as long as their views don't impede scientific knowledge.

No arguments here. ^_^

 

[Orias]

Same as every other answer I've seen from what would sound like a theist's point of view.

Or so you would think.

You say that theists tend to me more sacrificial... can you expand on that? As long as they're sacrificing themselves, or their own possessions for what they believe, fine. Don't involve the rest of us in this ritual.

Theists that partake in the major religions are more sacrificial in terms of their self development, not necessarily in a negative way just a "narrow minded" way that is really subject to the type of belief they have and how strong it is.

Some people donate to churches because they can "buy their way to Heaven", and some donate to charitable organizations that benefit the environment or world.

Not saying that atheists don't in fact do this, but by sacrifice I mean a way to help enhance someone other than the self in terms of monetary, personal, emotional, and physical well being.

Atheists are part of this as well, more people sacrifice themselves for the mass, while a few chose the opposite.

You mention atheists as being superficial... if you're referring to the fact that non-believers tend to be more concerned with only what is observably obvious or existing, then well done. Spot on. If you're trying to say non-believers are any more shallow (which is another definition of the word) then you're stereotypical to a point at which you cannot be taken seriously because no statistic in existence could possibly even come close to coming to that conclusion.

No thats not what I'm saying, by these measures the existence of Gods would be obvious, since atheism only holds 16% of the major religions pie chart (haha listen to me), while the majority is religious/theist.

There seems to be a balance though, since psychology is a really deep thing, and I don't know of any renowned psychologists or advanced physics person that doesn't have some type of belief in God.

Superficial, obvious, people that call themselves atheists obviously have no type of belief in God besides their denial of it. Anything else is just an over-generalization.

It's exactly the subject of human conditioning that I'm referring to. A healthy logically-minded human with no knowledge of the existence of god would not think it appropriate to mutilate his child's genitalia unless he was not of sound mind.

Heh, but I think the whole religious thing behind it wasn't out of being uneducated. If you are referring to circumcision of course

Bring religion into it and you have perfect reason to hack away at a child's genitalia. It makes good, logical people say and do repulsive things which are, in their own twisted right, made 'normal' by religion. I'm yet to meet an extremist atheist by the way. "BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG OR WE'LL BRING WAR UPON YOU!!!" I think not.

I agree here, but atheists are fighting a psychological battle as well, perhaps a more advanced one since certain religions demand physical involvement.

You're thinking too much about the statements I made. It's a very simple concept with very simple answers. Dodge them, over analyze them and twist them up as much as you want... we both know what I'm getting at. Atheists don't blow buildings up, circumcise children, stone women to death for adultry, or murder people for apostasy in the name of atheism.

I disagree, I answered your two questions, religious belief has little to do with what is "wrong" and "right" unless you were raised with awareness of such things. Its clear cut to most people, but I'd hate for you to assume that I was thinking too much about it, since it didn't take much.

 

[Photonic]

Or so you would think.



Theists that partake in the major religions are more sacrificial in terms of their self development, not necessarily in a negative way just a "narrow minded" way that is really subject to the type of belief they have and how strong it is.

Some people donate to churches because they can "buy their way to Heaven", and some donate to charitable organizations that benefit the environment or world.

Not saying that atheists don't in fact do this, but by sacrifice I mean a way to help enhance someone other than the self in terms of monetary, personal, emotional, and physical well being.

Atheists are part of this as well, more people sacrifice themselves for the mass, while a few chose the opposite.




No thats not what I'm saying, by these measures the existence of Gods would be obvious, since atheism only holds 16% of the major religions pie chart (haha listen to me), while the majority is religious/theist.

There seems to be a balance though, since psychology is a really deep thing, and I don't know of any renowned psychologists or advanced physics person that doesn't have some type of belief in God.

Superficial, obvious, people that call themselves atheists obviously have no type of belief in God besides their denial of it. Anything else is just an over-generalization.



Heh, but I think the whole religious thing behind it wasn't out of being uneducated. If you are referring to circumcision of course



I agree here, but atheists are fighting a psychological battle as well, perhaps a more advanced one since certain religions demand physical involvement.




I disagree, I answered your two questions, religious belief has little to do with what is "wrong" and "right" unless you were raised with awareness of such things. Its clear cut to most people, but I'd hate for you to assume that I was thinking too much about it, since it didn't take much.

When was the last time an atheist (don't capitalize it, it isn't a noun) killed someone for the sake of atheism?

 

[Riverwolf]

Bring religion into it and you have perfect reason to hack away at a child's genitalia. It makes good, logical people say and do repulsive things which are, in their own twisted right, made 'normal' by religion. I'm yet to meet an extremist atheist by the way. "BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG OR WE'LL BRING WAR UPON YOU!!!" I think not.

I don't see that happening. What I do see is this: "You believe in God? Please try on this nice white coat."

Obviously not a very likely future, but still a possible one.

I have met extremist atheists.

BTW, it was for a while believed that circumcision brought health benefits, and thus was done by the non-religious and the religious alike.

 

[Orias]

When was the last time an atheist (don't capitalize it, it isn't a noun) killed someone for the sake of atheism?

I only capitalized "Atheist" because it was the beginning of a sentence

Well, Stalin, Kim Jung Il, and Jim Jones to name a few. Its not as obvious as "alaha akbar" of course, but these men took action according to personal belief, so atheists really don't do anything any differently than theists, power over so many people and how the world exists environmentally and physically can really take its toll and cause people to abuse power.

Anyone can point fingers, it takes a competent person to realize what we as humans have done, and how efficiently we are doing certain things. After all, it could be argued that everything we surround ourselves with was created by us

 

[Photonic]

I only capitalized "Atheist" because it was the beginning of a sentence

Well, Stalin, Kim Jung Il, and Jim Jones to name a few. Its not as obvious as "alaha akbar" of course, but these men took action according to personal belief, so atheists really don't do anything any differently than theists, power over so many people and how the world exists environmentally and physically can really take its toll and cause people to abuse power.

Anyone can point fingers, it takes a competent person to realize what we as humans have done, and how efficiently we are doing certain things. After all, it could be argued that everything we surround ourselves with was created by us

I am going to ask you again with a restriction on them killing people because they lack a belief in religion.

Those named people would have killed people even if they were incredibly religious.

 

[Orias]

I am going to ask you again with a restriction on them killing people because they lack a belief in religion.

Having belief in religion has little to do with it, unless a person takes a religious corse of action. But a majority of looneys don't have any type of moral or religious belief, thats why Christians attempt to convert them

 

[Riverwolf]

I am going to ask you again with a restriction on them killing people because they lack a belief in religion.

Those named people would have killed people even if they were incredibly religious.

And it could equally be argued that other atrocities committed in the name of religion would have also occurred without it, with some other flimsy excuse.

 

[Photonic]

Having belief in religion has little to do with it, unless a person takes a religious corse of action. But a majority of looneys don't have any type of moral or religious belief, thats why Christians attempt to convert them

I can't tell if you're being serious or are just incredibly blind.

 

[Orias]

I can't tell if you're being serious or are just incredibly blind.

Blind people think that people commit treacherous acts solely out of what a label insists, instead of how the human mind becomes developed.

 

[Photonic]

Blind people think that people commit treacherous acts solely out of what a label insists, instead of how the human mind becomes developed.

Right, and you not only applied that to atheists, but you managed to attempt to back up that claim by saying we have no moral basis and that's what causes it!

Please refrain from that kind of insult, I think that's a little unfair. Most of the atheists I've known are some of the most morally attuned people I've ever met.

 

[Orias]

Right, and you not only applied that to atheists, but you managed to attempt to back up that claim by saying we have no moral basis and that's what causes it!

Please refrain from that kind of insult, I think that's a little unfair. Most of the atheists I've known are some of the most morally attuned people I've ever met.

No, I never tried to back it up by claiming that atheists have no moral basis.

My last statement is a simple sentence, that means what it is intended mean. People commit treacherous acts out of deviance, a certain psychological development that take an "off road course", atheism and theism has little do to with this development unless the label possess enough strength over the person to make them stop.

Morality has little to do with this, since like religion, morality attempts to dictate what is "wrong" and "right", and while people fight for these beliefs they are actually using them as weapons against other beliefs.

I believe that killing someone with an offensive strike is "wrong", since I would never fight someone who declines a challenge or turns their back, but in a life or death situation "wrong" becomes my best friend, as well as hitting below the belt and tearing soft flesh with a practiced grip.

 

[Photonic]

No, I never tried to back it up by claiming that atheists have no moral basis.

My last statement is a simple sentence, that means what it is intended mean. People commit treacherous acts out of deviance, a certain psychological development that take an "off road course", atheism and theism has little do to with this development unless the label possess enough strength over the person to make them stop.

Morality has little to do with this, since like religion, morality attempts to dictate what is "wrong" and "right", and while people fight for these beliefs they are actually using them as weapons against other beliefs.

I believe that killing someone with an offensive strike is "wrong", since I would never fight someone who declines a challenge or turns their back, but in a life or death situation "wrong" becomes my best friend, as well as hitting below the belt and tearing soft flesh with a practiced grip.

I apologize then. It seems I have misinterpreted your statement.