Capitalism Sucks

[SomeRandom]

I use the dictionary....not red scare hype.

So which are socialist countries specifically? Because I always thought it was basically the Nordic ones. And a few European ones. In fairness geography isn’t really my strong suit lol
And incidentally they all usually beat the US in terms of happiness etc.
Though I was surprised to learn that this site put my country ahead of yours in terms of “economic freedom” for the financial year of 2020/21
Capitalist Countries 2021

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People felt capitalism's collapse was imminent during the great depression and though it took a world war to defeat fascism as one of the worst manifestations of capitalism, it did stabilise. It was followed by a golden age of consumerism in the post-war boom. There is a chance capitalism could adapt itself again. e.g. a Green New Deal would only save Capitalism in the same way as FDR's original New Deal.

Equally, technologies don't make capitalism obsolete either; it takes human beings to abolish it and replace it with a new system. The absence of alternative models to capitalism beyond "feel good" left-wing populism that would, yes, make people's lives better, but not actually replace it, is the most telling indication of the limited scope of the left.

I agree with the intention and the principle, but I'm concerned by the limited practical development and implementation of a new system. Though it's now the bandwagon loads of people are jumping on because these are hard times, it's ringing alarm bells because we don't have the answers we need to make such a system work better than previous attempts like European Social Democracy or Soviet style Socialism.

Ultimately we can't sustain capitalist growth and we can only lose so many jobs to automation before society destabilizes. UBI I do believe a bandaid fix for a wound that's going to be needing stitches if we do nothing else.

 

[Laika]

The capitalists that now have massive control over government and media will and do use it to fight ANY advancement in terms of economic or social equity tooth and nail. Which is why you aren't seeing any great advancement in that direction. And yet you choose to blame this on the "leftists" instead of on the on capitalists using their huge accumulation of wealth and power to stymie any significant positive change. Why?

Because, quite frankly, I am tired of leftists sugar-coating "revolution" as anything other than a life choice between going to prison and being gunned down in the street by well-trained, heavily armed police and soldiers. When the penny drops and people figure that out, they aren't going to be so enthusiastic about building the new world anymore. They're going to wake up like all the people involved in the January 6th Insurrection and realise "WTF have I done?" And that is not a stupid question, whatever your opinion on it may be. People deserve better, but the left is most definitely not giving it to them.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes, but that puts government in the position of protecting us from our own toxic economic system. Why not just change the economic system so that the government doesn't have to keep protecting us from it? That's what socialism is all about: changing the system so that everyone gets the power to protect themselves. Labor gets a say in how they are treated and compensated. The investor gets say in how they profit from their investment. The consumer gets a say in the kinds, quality, and value of the goods and services being produced, and the community gets a say in how the commercial enterprise effects it's collective well-being.

Politics and economics has to do with human nature. Sadly, humans can be selfish. People who do not want to help their fellow man will go to great lengths to avoid doing so. Socialism has such a stigma for those who doesn't know how it works. I don't know if it could ever be implemented in the US. However, I think that we are going toward more of a social safety net, like west and central Europe has.

 

[Revoltingest]

We're not there to Stat Trek yet, but especially with 3d printing and increasing automation we are going to have to rethink things.
Better to be ready than late with this one.

This is where the UBI becomes a practical thingie for the
unproductive & slackers. But for the ambitious...the movers
& shakers...there'll still be capitalism.

 

[sun rise]

So which are socialist countries specifically? Because I always thought it was basically the Nordic ones. And a few European ones. In fairness geography isn’t really my strong suit lol
And incidentally they all usually beat the US in terms of happiness etc.
Though I was surprised to learn that this site put my country ahead of yours in terms of “economic freedom” for the financial year of 2020/21
Capitalist Countries 2021

From that web site, the US is closer to @Revoltingest 's dream than others

Is America capitalist? The United States is referred to as a mixed market economy, meaning that it has characteristics of capitalism and socialism. The United States is a capitalist society where means of production are based on private ownership and operation for profit. The United States is not a totally capitalist society, however, because the economy has regulations, taxation, and some subsidization.

 

[sun rise]

Meanwhile Musk is going I'm #1 to Bezos. The capitalist dream to be #1 and screw the rest (us). #1 is the thing. Along with sexual innuendoes.

Musk Says He'll Send Bezos a Silver Medal After Passing Him in Wealth

Musk's comment toward Bezos is the latest in the rivalry between them. Earlier this year, Bezos' rocket company, Blue Origin, protested NASA's decision to award a $2.9 billion contract to SpaceX to land humans on the moon. On Twitter, Musk said: "Can't get it up (to orbit) lol."

 

[Revoltingest]

So which are socialist countries specifically? Because I always thought it was basically the Nordic ones. And a few European ones. In fairness geography isn’t really my strong suit lol

Socialism is "the people owning the means of production" per.
dictionaries. (This naturally follows that government does the
owning & running.)Those Eurostanian countries have market.
economies with private ownership.
Denmark to American leftists: We’re not socialist
Some socialist countries over the years...
N Korea, Mao's PRC, USSR, Cuba, Khmer Rouge

And incidentally they all usually beat the US in terms of happiness etc.

Because they're capitalist.
Some are arguably more so than Ameristan.
Index of Economic Freedom: Promoting Economic Opportunity and Prosperity by Country

Though I was surprised to learn that this site put my country ahead of yours in terms of “economic freedom” for the financial year of 2020/21
Capitalist Countries 2021

I'm not surprised. We've been on a rampage of increased
economic regulation for decades. The CFR (Code of Federal
Regulations) has grown thousands of pages per year.
I've personally experienced crackdowns on liberty, eg,
real estate broker license, real estate regulation, workplace
regulation, policing for profit, speculative bank account
seizures.

 

[Revoltingest]

From that web site, the US is closer to @Revoltingest 's dream than others

Is America capitalist? The United States is referred to as a mixed market economy, meaning that it has characteristics of capitalism and socialism. The United States is a capitalist society where means of production are based on private ownership and operation for profit. The United States is not a totally capitalist society, however, because the economy has regulations, taxation, and some subsidization.

Some countries might be more my style.
Ameristan is falling in economic liberty relative to others.
Still....there are other reasons to stay here, eg, better
engine shows, less Eurotrash.

BTW, your quote gets socialism wrongly defined, eg,
taxation is not socialism. Over-regulation can be though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is where the UBI becomes a practical thingie for the
unproductive & slackers. But for the ambitious...the movers
& shakers...there'll still be capitalism.

If there is a lack of chances to get ahead when there are few jobs there's likely to be rebellion.

 

[Revoltingest]

If there is a lack of chances to get ahead when there are few jobs there's likely to be rebellion.

Keep the masses fed, housed, & entertained....they'll be
as complacent as cattle. The mooing will be less angry.

 

[sun rise]

BTW, your quote gets socialism wrongly defined, eg,
taxation is not socialism. Over-regulation can be though.

Talk to China. They're using taxes in support of their version of socialism.

 

[sun rise]

Keep the masses fed, housed, & entertained....they'll be
as complacent as cattle. The mooing will be less angry.

That can be called "enlightened self-interest". These post-enlightenment days shows many large organizations prefer the abattoir to deal with excessive mooing.

 

[SomeRandom]

From that web site, the US is closer to @Revoltingest 's dream than others

Is America capitalist? The United States is referred to as a mixed market economy, meaning that it has characteristics of capitalism and socialism. The United States is a capitalist society where means of production are based on private ownership and operation for profit. The United States is not a totally capitalist society, however, because the economy has regulations, taxation, and some subsidization.

I doubt there are many if any countries that are fully capitalist.

 

[Revoltingest]

Talk to China. They're using taxes in support of their version of socialism.

Taxation is like weather....it'll happen in all systems.

 

[Revoltingest]

That can be called "enlightened self-interest". These post-enlightenment days shows many large organizations prefer the abattoir to deal with excessive mooing.

It's a personality analogy....not a Soylent Green one.

 

[sun rise]

It's a personality analogy....not a Soylent Green one.

As was my response.

 

[Heyo]

Lacking a better alternative is a problem
for those who want to ditch capitalism.
I say that when there are problems, just
work to solve them....not complain about
capitalism.

And when capitalism is the problem?
I'm not (only) complaining about capitalism, I try to inform about capitalism. It is hard when people are indoctrinated and have fallen so hard for the black-and-white fallacy that they start using it themselves.
I said it in an other thread already, capitalism and socialism are points on a spectrum and there are examples of better functioning alternatives than both endpoints that lie on the way between.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And when capitalism is the problem?
I'm not (only) complaining about capitalism, I try to inform about capitalism. It is hard when people are indoctrinated and have fallen so hard for the black-and-white fallacy that they start using it themselves.
I said it in an other thread already, capitalism and socialism are points on a spectrum and there are examples of better functioning alternatives than both endpoints that lie on the way between.

It's not much of a spectrum though because capitalism and socialism aren't the only alternatives or the only models practiced. If things get hard enough I wouldn't be surprised if a sort of fuedalism emerges.

This is where the UBI becomes a practical thingie for the
unproductive & slackers. But for the ambitious...the movers
& shakers...there'll still be capitalism.

I do think UBI will be become more necessary. But I can't see it lasting long. If basic functions of the system persist that lead to necessity of UBI the same situation will be inevitable, especially if UBI pay increases go up like disabilities or minimum wage.

 

[oldbadger]

Capitalism Sucks
It had it's place, but there has to be a better way.

Huh? Wot?
So in the autumn of our lives my Missus 'n' me ('I' for any nerds) have got the least expensive little freehold home on the entire North Kent Coast, and our darlin' little Jimny ATV out front, and some savings, and you're telling me we've got to hand it over to folks who have got better ideas?

So what will be the better way?