Caste System and Status of Women in Hinduism

[Metempsychosis]

I probably should have been more specific. I have read articles online that talk about higher castes are closely related to Eurasian groups, while lower castes are only related to Asian groups. Plus, more higher castes have more Caucasian features than lower castes. This is the thing I don't understand if caste was based on profession first.

The answer is not necessarily.Tough many light skinned are a part of higher classes especially among dravidians,there many dark-skinned people among brahmins.Caste discrimination as a social system is pretty shameful for Hinduism.

But if you are really interested in your Varna ,their are astrological techniques put forward by vedic seers(the saptharishis ) to find out them out.It works to find karmic debts and your own inherent Gunas(qualities),which normal humans cannot find out.It works irrespective of whether you are hindu.It would show us quite clearly that some brahmins as they are classified now are not brahmins at all.And you will be quite surprised that ur father/mother can be of different varna than you.

 

[TatTvamAsi]

Don't mix what people in society do with the principles of the philosophy they follow.

This is especially true for Hinduism.

Women were never "un"-equal to men. In the recent history of India (since 700 CE), after the invasion of the barbaric muslims (redundancy LOL ), Hindus have had to force women into a subdued role in society. This became the norm over several centuries and until recently, women, especially in rural parts of India, were not given many opportunities. This has NOTHING to do with Hinduism itself. The fact that Hinduism is the only religion that calls the primordial force SHAKTI (female creative intelligence) says a lot about Hindus' attitudes towards women. Also, not every female is a woman!

Regarding the "Caste System", there is a lot of misinformation and blatant slander about it around the world, especially by non-Hindus.

Varnashrama Dharma is a social heirarchical system in which the prosperity of the WHOLE COMMUNITY was the goal; NOT the individualistic/egotistic materialism that is prevalent in the modern day, even in India. In order for the community/society to succeed and prosper, everyone within that community had to cultivate his strengths and follow his duty (svadharma). There was total harmony in society when this was the case. Through millenia, this heirarchy was degraded and people were not following their duty (svadharma). Therefore, there was a lot of discord in the community and misfortune followed closely. This consequently led to rebellion, wars, betrayal etc. and things really went asunder.

This is NOT the fault of the system (Varnashrama Dharma) itself! It is the application in society that fell apart.

Many anti-Hindus use the "caste system" to denigrate Hinduism and India but in actuality, it is this "Caste System" that has enabled India to survive the onslaught of invading barbarians (muslims & christians) for over 1000 years! Hinduism is still thriving in India and it is slowly but surely spreading around the world because of its principles of TRUTH! Yogasana, principle of vegetarianism (ahimsa), incredibly tolerant attitudes are catching on especially in the west and people are dropping the abrahamic faiths like a bad habit. Even muslims are doing Yogasana in the Middle East which is hilarious as Yoga and Hinduism are non-different and inseparable!

After all, India's motto is: SATYAMEVA JAYATE! (TRUTH WILL TRIUMPH!) :yes:

Hi everyone. I am considering converting to Hinduism. However, I have a couple of problems. The problems are with the caste system and with the status of women in Hinduism. I was hoping someone could clear up my misconceptions and help me to understand Hinduism from a more positive point of view. Is the caste system still a part of the Hindu religion? What about the status of women? Do women hold a low status in Hinduism? Please help me out.

 

[Nunjima]

My understanding of varna (litterally cover or coulour) which is what the ancent texts refer to (now called caste) is that diferent parts of society have different roles in order to maintain society. This is true in all societies, it can be seen as like belongin to a guild. Over time caste has become a way of controling people and creating inequality and the non scriptual untouchable caste became created. Caste and predjudice is still very much alive in india (as in the rest of the world) though caste is becomming less important. the government also has anti-descrimination laws to help untouchables and tribal people.

As in all religion, women do not have as much involvement or status in the religious ceremonies. Temple priest are almost always male. Though as previously stated, Devi (the Godess, or any of the godesses) has a very high status and is concidered as some to be the supreme God. Thus the Female is concidered to be at least as devine as the Male.

It is also expected of women in traditional hindu society to obey their husbands, (as it is in christianity).

I don't know if it is really possible to convert into hinduism, however as a non-hindu (such as myself) I am welcome to pray to hindu deities and visit temples. Thus visiting hindu temples you don't run the risk of someone trying to convert you (except in certain sects such as hare-krishnas, whom I love dearly but they can be quite evanjelical)

There are also many diferent gurus in india who have made the universally embrasing hindu philosophy available for westerners.

Hari Aum

 

[Charzhino]

Why does Krishna in the Gita refer to women as ''of lower birth''?

 

[Andal]

Why does Krishna in the Gita refer to women as ''of lower birth''?

Women are referred to as such because of suffering we go through in life. Ultimately though the Gita teaches that there is no one of lower birth only those who choose evil over good and not to work toward God realization. In the Mahabharata, Arjuna's brother was questioned by the devas as to who is a Brahmin. His response is that one is not born a brahmin but becomes one through actions.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Madhuri]

Women are referred to as such because of suffering we go through in life. Ultimately though the Gita teaches that there is no one of lower birth only those who choose evil over good and not to work toward God realization. In the Mahabharata, Arjuna's brother was questioned by the devas as to who is a Brahmin. His response is that one is not born a brahmin but becomes one through actions.

Aum Hari Aum!

Is it possible that it refers to the fact that in those times women were left uneducated and seen socially as inferior? Since given less opportunities, including in religious settings, they are of 'lower birth' in a social context and have less exposure to spiritual life and techniques to advance (such as meditation). Perhaps this is what Krishna refers to. It makes sense to me at least.

 

[Andal]

Is it possible that it refers to the fact that in those times women were left uneducated and seen socially as inferior? Since given less opportunities, including in religious settings, they are of 'lower birth' in a social context and have less exposure to spiritual life and techniques to advance (such as meditation). Perhaps this is what Krishna refers to. It makes sense to me at least.

That's how I understood it. Krishna wasn't saying that he viewed women as being of lower birth. I think he was talking about how society viewed women. In that time being born a woman meant a lower birth because of the lack of agency in life and religion and so forth.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

The word
Brahmin simply means one who has knowledge of the BRAHMA or *ब्रह्मज्ञानी*.

It doe snot take any avatar to respond or understand that simply because each drop in existence is only One energy BUT in myriad forms. So how can birth be anything high or low?
It is only *THOUGHTS* that come in between that is the culprit, Let the light within show and darkness will recoil.

Love & rgds

 

[TatTvamAsi]

"Friend",

Please don't mix terms.

"Brahmin" means "one who has realized Brahman" or 'one who is enlightened'. In the days of yore, Brahmins were ever engaged in tapasya (penance) to realize the nature of reality (GOD) and many broke through the barrier of ignorance (avidya).

When Varnashrama Dharma declined (in subsequent yugas or epochs), varna was simply determined by birth and less so by character (guna) and action (karma). Although birth plays a major role in one's varna, it is not the sole determinant.

Almost nobody is a real "Brahmin" today.

Friends,

The word
Brahmin simply means one who has knowledge of the BRAHMA or *ब्रह्मज्ञानी*.

It doe snot take any avatar to respond or understand that simply because each drop in existence is only One energy BUT in myriad forms. So how can birth be anything high or low?
It is only *THOUGHTS* that come in between that is the culprit, Let the light within show and darkness will recoil.

Love & rgds

 

[TatTvamAsi]

Women and people of the lower castes (vaISyAs & sUdrAs) are not as predisposed towards self-realization as higher-caste men. This is due to their greater tendency to be attached to worldly matters (childbirth, motherhood, wealth, sense-pleasures etc.). Therefore, spiritually speaking, women & lower varna people are considered of "lower birth".

Why does Krishna in the Gita refer to women as ''of lower birth''?

 

[Satsangi]

Women and people of the lower castes (vaISyAs & sUdrAs) are not as predisposed towards self-realization as higher-caste men. This is due to their greater tendency to be attached to worldly matters (childbirth, motherhood, wealth, sense-pleasures etc.). Therefore, spiritually speaking, women & lower varna people are considered of "lower birth".

You will get a lot of replies to the above post. I do not agree that women are spiritually less inclined. I think women have more Bhakti in them then men- generally speaking. But women are less inclined towards the path of Gyan.

 

[Metempsychosis]

It is this "Caste System" that has enabled India to survive the onslaught of invading barbarians (muslims & christians) for over 1000 years! Hinduism is still thriving in India and it is slowly but surely spreading around the world because of its principles of TRUTH! Yogasana, principle of vegetarianism (ahimsa), incredibly tolerant attitudes are catching on especially in the west and people are dropping the abrahamic faiths like a bad habit. Even muslims are doing Yogasana in the Middle East which is hilarious as Yoga and Hinduism are non-different and inseparable!

Hindus converts to other religions to escape caste system.Entire states in North-East India ,like Mizoram are Christians ones.Dalits convert to Islam ,to escape oppression from Hinduism.If u Hinduism is so cool for Dalits,why will they convert to Islam?Just a while ago u said, Christians and muslims cannot understand Hinduism.Thats a foolish generalization.Sorry to be harsh on you.

How are women lower birth?I didnt understand that.

You will get a lot of replies to the above post. I do not agree that women are spiritually less inclined.

Stellar reply.

I think women have more Bhakti in them then men- generally speaking. But women are less inclined towards the path of Gyan.

Very much true.

 

[Andal]

It is attitudes that women are "less inclined for spirituality", that have kept women in the dark in many parts of Hindu society. To make much statements allows for discrimination and the denigration of women just like when such statements are made about lower castes. Such attitudes have led to the exploitation of individuals and entire groups throughout history.

If it were not for a woman none of us would be here. In fact the mother is a wonderful archetype for spirituality, and one that is not ignored by all hindus. Maybe they aren't interested in gyana or raja yoga but they are the most selfless, giving, and loving people on earth. And maybe they don't engage in gyana or raja because it is society who has decided that they must be wives and mothers therefore they have no time. It's not that they don't have the ability or inclination but society who has told us no. Thank God there is Bhakti, the one path that has traditionally been open for us otherwise men may have kept women completely from spirituality.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Metempsychosis]

Thank God there is Bhakti, the one path that has traditionally been open for us otherwise men may have kept women completely from spirituality.

Why do think other paths are not open for you?There are female mystics too.

 

[zenzero]

Friend T,

Almost nobody is a real "Brahmin" today.

Then let us stop using labels like *high* or *low*.
Everything & everyone is Brahma!
Love & rgds.

 

[Andal]

Why do think other paths are not open for you?There are female mystics too.

Hiya Friend
I was speaking more from a sociological perspective especially in earlier times. I don't think paths aren't open, of course there have been mystics. I was speaking more to the idea that women are spiritually lower and how that is detrimental to all involved.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Metempsychosis]

Hiya Friend
I was speaking more from a sociological perspective especially in earlier times.

yes but Many vedic authors(for ex.of rig vedic authors) were women.

 

[Madhuri]

yes but Many vedic authors(for ex.of rig vedic authors) were women.

What??
I have never heard this. Who were the women authors? And where did you get this information?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Madhuri,

Who were the women authors? And where did you get this information?

maybe this helps!
Vak Ambhrini and Her Song of the Soul by Satya Chaitanya

LOve & rgds

 

[Madhuri]

Friend Madhuri,


maybe this helps!
Vak Ambhrini and Her Song of the Soul by Satya Chaitanya

LOve & rgds

Thank you Zenzero! I think I was mixing up 'authors' with 'compiler' in my mind. Ik now very little about the Rig Veda actually (unfortunately) and was not aware that the contributers were even known personalities.