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Castration of Sex Offenders

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
Can castration (surgical or chemical) be used as an effective and legal solution for sex offenders?

I'll start with sharing this article.

[SIZE=+2]Can Castration Be a Solution for Sex Offenders?[/SIZE]
Man Who Mutilated Himself in Jail Thinks So, but Debate on Its Effectiveness Continues in Va., Elsewhere[SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE]James Jenkins wanted to end it. No more fantasies. No more molesting little girls. He knew he was the only one who could stop it; he was just waiting for the right time.
The right moment arrived one night nearly three years ago when he was alone in an Accomack County, Va., jail cell. He had spent five years in a Virginia prison for sexually molesting three young girls and another 2 1/2 years for violating his parole. The next morning, a prosecutor was going to ask a judge to commit him to a state facility for high-risk sex offenders. Jenkins could think of only one way out.
He asked a jail guard for a razor. He told the guard he wanted to look nice and cleanshaven for his court hearing the next day. The guard hesitated but handed Jenkins the blade. Jenkins walked to the shower in his cell. He bit the blade out of its plastic casing and stuffed an apple in his mouth to muffle his screams. Then he castrated himself and flushed his testicles down the jail cell toilet.
Jenkins, 63, doesn't flinch when he talks about it now. "Castration has done precisely what I wanted it to do," he said. "I have not had any sexual urges or desires in over two years. My mind is finally free of the deviant sexual fantasies I used to have about young girls."
He spoke with the clinical cool of a surgeon as he tried to explain his pedophilia during a rare interview in a guarded room of the Virginia Center for Behavioral Rehabilitation, the sex offender treatment center where Jenkins was sent. The Petersburg facility is part of a new way the state is trying to keep sex offenders off the streets: Identify the most dangerous before they are released from prison and ask a judge in civil court to commit them to a treatment facility even after they have completed their sentences.
Jenkins readily admits that the prospect of being confined indefinitely partly prompted his drastic action three years ago. But he also insists he did it to prevent himself from victimizing another child.
"I'm all for castration for certain sex offenders," he said. "I think it would do a lot to prevent recidivism and the amount of money we have to spend on treatment centers like the one I'm in."
The issue is less clear to lawmakers and the public.
High-profile pedophilia cases prompted a nationwide crackdown last year. And as such shows as NBC Dateline's "To Catch a Predator" illustrate how big the problem is, public outrage has caused lawmakers in Virginia and other states to try to make castration part of the solution for high-risk sex offenders.
Eight states allow the use of drugs to castrate sex offenders, including California, Florida and Texas, where surgical castration is also an option. Castration, however, is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. In Florida, for instance, judges are required to order castration for certain repeat offenders.
Although many scientists and psychologists agree that castration can dramatically lower sexual drive, there is sharp disagreement about whether it is a cure-all. Virginia officials are not convinced.
At a hearing in Accomack last week -- the second since Jenkins was committed -- Circuit Court Judge Robert B. Cromwell Jr. said he was not ready to send Jenkins back into the community. But the judge said he was also not convinced by the state's contention that castration had done little to change Jenkins.
"There's got to be some point in time where people like Mr. Jenkins could be eligible for release," Cromwell said.
He said he would "seriously consider" Jenkins for conditional release when his case is reviewed again next year.
Cromwell applauded the state's efforts to exact tough punishment for sexual predators but said the civil commitment law, which Virginia began using three years ago, forces judges into territory typically reserved for psychologists and doctors.
Such cases, he said, place the courts at an unusual intersection between medicine and the law.
* * *
In surgical castration, the testes are removed through an incision in the scrotum. In chemical castration, drugs are injected to lower the testosterone level, which in turn reduces sex drive.
There is debate, however, over the effectiveness of castration. Although such drugs as Depo-Provera and Depo-Lupron can help control some sexual disorders, they may not control, for example, a violent serial rapist who targets adult women out of anger and a need for control. The drugs can also have serious side effects. And there is concern that castrated sex offenders might replenish their testosterone by injecting hormones purchased illegally or over the Internet.
This year, state Sen. Emmett W. Hanger Jr. (R-Augusta) floated a bill in the legislature that would have allowed sex offenders to choose to be surgically castrated in exchange for their freedom at the end of their prison sentences. Hanger withdrew the bill after questions arose about whether courts might deem castration cruel and unusual punishment. But he said the fact that sex offenders would volunteer for the procedure should allay such concerns. He hopes to introduce a revised version in the next session.
Jenkins supports Hanger's bill and said he is living proof that castration works. But experts who testified in Jenkins's hearing last week disagreed about its effectiveness.
Psychologists called by the state and Jenkins's attorney said Jenkins will be a pedophile for life. But they disagreed on whether castration, aging and sex offender treatment had reduced his sex drive enough to make him eligible for conditional release.
Mario J.P. Dennis, clinical director at the treatment center, said Jenkins had made marked progress but still needs to be confined for treatment.
"Castration does not completely erase sexual arousal or function," Dennis said. "It doesn't completely obliterate arousal, drive or the ability to commit a sex act."
Dennis Carpenter, a clinical psychologist called by the defense, disagreed. Studies have shown, he said, that castration sharply reduces the risk of repeat offenses. One Danish study suggested the rate of repeat offenses dropped from 80 percent to 2.3 percent after surgical castration.
Jenkins's "risk is low enough that he could be able to be treated in the community," Carpenter said.
Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Pamela A. Sargent vigorously argued that Jenkins is incurable and too dangerous to be released. "He is not ready," Sargent said. "To put him on conditional release is just too great a risk to the community."
Fred Berlin, director of the Sexual Disorders Clinic at Johns Hopkins University and a leading expert on sex offenders, said that it's an unsavory choice between indefinite confinement and voluntary castration but that castration is an effective control for some offenders.
"I think it can be helpful," said Berlin, who testified for Jenkins in 2004. "I wouldn't want to say it's a guarantee or a panacea, but there's no doubt that in sex offenders, sexual interest is greatly diminished by castration."
* * *
For years, Jenkins struggled with overwhelming guilt, he said, but couldn't stop himself.
The fantasies used to run through him like a fever. At the Chincoteague water-slide park Jenkins operated in the 1980s, he couldn't keep his eyes off the bikini-clad girls, he said in the interview.
In those moments, Jenkins was the boy of summer, not the balding middle-aged man he had become. In his mind, he was still the homecoming king, the high school football star who married a cheerleader.
He later divorced but continued to think of himself as a good father and good neighbor. He was the guy all the parents trusted with their kids. But he was lonely.
"I was depressed, and I didn't have a lady friend at the time," Jenkins said.
Eventually, he found one. On Saturday nights, they'd drive around Chincoteague in his car, listening to R&B oldies. She liked the same music he did. Otis Redding. Muddy Waters. Al Green. Sometimes they'd sing their favorite song together:
"You're 16, you're beautiful and you're mine."
She wasn't even 16. She was 13, and he knew it when he molested her. But he said he didn't think of her as a girl. He just liked the feeling he got when he was with her.
"We would go out to pizza or the movies, and I felt like I was 16 years old again," Jenkins said. "There were times when I felt like she was my peer and I was her peer. It was confusing to me."
In 1989, the girl's parents reported Jenkins to Virginia authorities after her mother found letters Jenkins had written to the girl under her mattress. But the girl denied that there had been sexual contact. Authorities dropped the case.
In 1993, authorities charged Jenkins with molesting an 8-year-old girl and her 10-year-old sister in Chincoteague. Jenkins was convicted in October 1994.
He was released on parole in 1999 but two years later was behind bars again after a 10-year-old girl accused him of fondling her at a Fourth of July picnic. He couldn't stop the fantasies.
"I felt trapped, but it was my fault," Jenkins said. "It just really hit me then. I said, 'Man, you have got a problem , and nobody is going to fix it but you."
In prison, Jenkins read all about castration. He asked his prison therapist if the procedure was available but was told it was not an option. That's when he decided to do it himself.
"The day I decided to do it, I felt the need to pray for the strength and courage to do it," Jenkins said. "I prayed all day long, and a peace came over me like I'd never known before."

* * *
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
When he thinks about it now, he doesn't regret his decision to castrate himself. The thing he said he is most sorry about is what he did to those girls. "I still feel guilty about my victims, and I wonder about the trauma I have caused them," Jenkins said. But he still can't face it. When one of his victims testified in court last week, Jenkins stared into the distance while she recounted in a shaky voice the way he made her and her sister play "Mommy and Daddy." "I remember him telling me and my sister, 'Well, you can't tell anybody because your mommy will get hurt if you do,' " she said. Then there were the times Jenkins made her 10-year-old sister perform oral sex on him while he drove around in his van, and the time he touched them both while he gave them a bath. All grown up and a woman now, she glanced briefly at Jenkins. Then she started to cry like a little girl.
Source.


To be honest, I'm not quite sure how I feel about this. I've supported castration of sex offenders in the past but never really thought about it.



One doesn't need all or any of their gentials intact and working to sexually assault someone and there are other motives than just sex to sexually assault someone; and there are ways to get around the castration as stated in the article.
I also have to wonder if the forced sterilization of sex offenders would have unintended side effects such as them having no sexual outlet and having sexual frustration being worked out and released in a rage against others.

If someone does agree to and chooses to have this done after going through a thorough mental health check and being educated on castration and what it is and the effects AND having lots and lots of therapy then I think I would be for it, but I'm not going to celebrate it...


And this still horrifies me everytime I read that article: If someone has the force of mind to cut off his own testicles while unmedicated how could he not be able to prevent himself from molesting little girls? I can see him not being able to prevent the fantasies, but how could he not prevent himself from committing the act?

This really makes him seem like the victim here- but the blame for his actions are still squarely on him and I hope this doesn't change that.




It does make me think about the forced lobotomies of the 20th century (and reminds me faintly of eugenetics) and of the Eighth Amendment (Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.)
If this is being done to prevent future incidents it's easier to accept. However, many people call for the castration of sex offenders as just revenge and mere punishment.


There is also a legal perspective to this in the case of Skinner v. Oklahoma- though that case was less for sex crimes and more for felonies (except embezzlement) and was very based in eugenetics.

The Court ruled that because "marriage and procreation" are "fundamental rights" (relying on the Ninth Amendment and quoting Justice Chase from a case in 1798 that no Constitution can list every right people must retain to live free of tyranny) have been traditions in our society since it began and could not be taken away.

The Court the never said castration could never be inflicted and required the government have a substantially "compelling" interest and stealing chickens didn't seem to be that compelling or interesting....

After this case castration statutes were limited to sexual offenders as the Courth never ruled that castration for sex offenders is unconstitutional, but it fell out of favour with politicans and the public (due to morals and ethics, it's permanence, and graphic nature, eugentics falling out of favour, and the fact castration was primarily done to black offenders (which led many states to overturn their castration statues without saying anything about their constitutionality...)).


Going on this note again, I don't think I can support it done without the consent and choice of the sex offender because our legal system is not perfect and does condemn innocents, and because there isn't much evidence to suggest it would actually work at reducing sex crimes (by deterrence or by reducing reoffending).





What are your thoughts? If this came up to vote on how would you vote for it and situations would you want it to be used for and what restrictions (if any) would want on it?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
It's a stupid idea. My suspicion would be that even a castrated pedophile will still be a pedophile, and will still molest a child if given a chance.

If we're going to begin maiming and disfiguring people to stop them from committing crimes that we think they will commit in the future (does anyone see a really big problem with this???) then I suggest that we blind them, and perhaps remove their tongue as well. That way they'd have a very, very difficult time succeeding at child molestation no matter how badly they want to do it.
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
I'm all about strong-arming people who deserve it. So I would vote for surgical castration.If you want to keep your junk intact--don't molest little kids. Period. Also, while it's true that Eunuch's in the past have found other ways of causing mischief, having no testicles does seem to keep them from sexual desire (they were the only ones entrusted with harems of women in some parts of the world--I can't imagine anyman with a libido not taking advantage of that kind of trust). However, I don't have much evidence of this other than what I've read about history. Do eunuch's still pursue sexual relationships? If so, this wouldn't work.

As for the down side, I can imagine a lot of child molestors becoming VERY angry at society if society forcefully takes their family jewels. The guy in this article sounds like he truly wants to be a better person...he did it to himself voluntarily. But what about those guys who don't want to do this? The ones who don't think they have a problem? Will they become devient in another way? Will they molest with their hands instead? Will they murder? Studies anyone?

Obviously, castration is not the final solution, but just a way to relieve some of the symptoms of this problem.
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
PureX said:
If we're going to begin maiming and disfiguring people to stop them from committing crimes that we think they will commit in the future...then I suggest that we blind them, and perhaps remove their tongue as well. That way they'd have a very, very difficult time succeeding at child molestation no matter how badly they want to do it.
Hey, I like the way you think! Excellent ideas!
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
jamaesi said:
Can castration (surgical or chemical) be used as an effective and legal solution for sex offenders?

Death penalty would be far more effective.

You can't stop repeat sexual offenses with castration, but you can with lethal injection or hanging. Castrated folks can still molest and abuse, but dead folks can't.
 

evearael

Well-Known Member
The vindictive side of me very much likes the idea. However, I'm concerned it will be used as a "Get out of jail free" card to reduce sentencing or allow for early parole... allowing the predator back into the community much sooner. The recidivism rates are lower, but not nonexistant. If the prisoner requests it, it should be permitted though. Frankly, I would be happier with more sensible sentences (at the moment they are WAY too short). I think this is an attempt by the state to avoid having to keep these predators in jail as long as they should be... it is a cost cutting measure.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
evearael said:
The vindictive side of me very much likes the idea. However, I'm concerned it will be used as a "Get out of jail free" card to reduce sentencing or allow for early parole... allowing the predator back into the community much sooner. The recidivism rates are lower, but not nonexistant. If the prisoner requests it, it should be permitted though. Frankly, I would be happier with more sensible sentences (at the moment they are WAY too short). I think this is an attempt by the state to avoid having to keep these predators in jail as long as they should be... it is a cost cutting measure.

The problem is (1) prison sentences don't turn sex offenders into normal, healthy people, successful rehab sometimes does (2) the state can't force rehabilitation (3) many sex offenders don't want to be rehabilitated.

We can't force rehabilitation, but we can insure that they can't do it again. Unfortunately, some spineless liberals have a problem with taking an offender out for a hanging after they repeatedly rape, molest, and often kill their victims.

Castration seems more brutal to me (and cruel and unusual) than death, and not near as effective.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Castrating sex offenders is both cruel and unusual. It's also likely to be a great way to encourage public sympathy for sex offenders. Anytime you mistreat people, even horrible people, someone is going to feel bad about it, and rightly so. So, I'm very much opposed to this notion of castrating sex offenders. Frankly, I'd rather they didn't have any justifiable sympathy at all on their side.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Sunstone said:
Castrating sex offenders is both cruel and unusual. It's also likely to be a great way to encourage public sympathy for sex offenders. Anytime you mistreat people, even horrible people, someone is going to feel bad about it, and rightly so. So, I'm very much opposed to this notion of castrating sex offenders. Frankly, I'd rather they didn't have any justifiable sympathy at all on their side.

In Angellous' colony, we'd have immedeate execution just after the conviction came in for a repeat offense.

And dang it, we'd know how to spell.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
We can't force rehabilitation, but we can insure that they can't do it again. Unfortunately, some spineless liberals have a problem with taking an offender out for a hanging after they repeatedly rape, molest, and often kill their victims.

I'm not spineless, thank you. (Though I do wish it sometimes, my back problems aren't very fun.)

After surviving years of sexual molestation and rape, no I don't feel like a coward if my immediate reaction is not froathing at the mouth and lighting a bonfire and tying a noose. I'd rather have a fair trial and justice done- in the form a long jail sentence and therapy. If they are not rehabilitated or do not wish to reform then they are kept away from society.

You kill sex offenders, more will come up to take their place. If you really want to stop them instead of just having mob "justice" revenge, then start supporting programs that stop the cycles of violence that create so many offenders.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
jamaesi said:
I'm not spineless, thank you. (Though I do wish it sometimes, my back problems aren't very fun.)

After surviving years of sexual molestation and rape, no I don't feel like a coward if my immediate reaction is not froathing at the mouth and lighting a bonfire and tying a noose. I'd rather have a fair trial and justice done- in the form a long jail sentence and therapy. If they are not rehabilitated or do not wish to reform then they are kept away from society.

You kill sex offenders, more will come up to take their place. If you really want to stop them instead of just having mob "justice" revenge, then start supporting programs that stop the cycles of violence that create so many offenders.

I fully support programs for the rehabilitation of sex offenders as well as the removal of the ones who don't want to be rehabilitated. Death removes them quite well from society. If more people want to repeatedly molest others, especially children, we should kill them too.

Jail for sex offenders, especially child molesters, is essentially a death sentence for them anyway.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
Jail for sex offenders, especially child molesters, is essentially a death sentence for them anyway.

Then why practice brutality ourselves and kill them?

Try to serve justice (not revenge) while rehabbing them but keep them away from society if they are still a danger afterwards.
 

kai

ragamuffin
ah castration blinding,cutting out tongues,execution, hey what about stoning ,oh no thats barbaric and middle eastern
 

lasthope

Member
If we're going to begin maiming and disfiguring people to stop them from committing crimes that we think they will commit in the future (does anyone see a really big problem with this???) then I suggest that we blind them, and perhaps remove their tongue as well. That way they'd have a very, very difficult time succeeding at child molestation no matter how badly they want to do it.

Don't forget about the fingers. Need to cut them off to.

I would like to resort back to the times of the scarlett letter. Make them wear signs that say, I rape kids. Maybe even a tatoo across their cheeks that say, CHILD MOLESTER. I have issues with child molesters and I think they should sit in jail and rot. I would not have an issue with my tax money being used to personally keep a child molester in jail.

Thats it. We should start a new organization. We can call it, Adopt-a-molester. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can keep this child molester in jail for the rest of his life. Just 70 cents a day can assure you that this pedophile will have done to him what he has done to some helpless child every hour on the hour. Please help protect our kids. Isn't it worth just 70 cents a day?

I have three daughters. Most of my best friends and siblings have daughters also. It is a real nasty, nasty thought that someone out there could violate the innocence of my children and be out in 7 to 10 years to do it again. Possibly sooner.
For you hard knock arguing folk out there, I feel the same way about any child. Male, female, yours, mine, my best friends kid to my worst enemies kid to my total strangers kid. I am not excluding anyone.
 

kai

ragamuffin
lasthope said:
Don't forget about the fingers. Need to cut them off to.

I would like to resort back to the times of the scarlett letter. Make them wear signs that say, I rape kids. Maybe even a tatoo across their cheeks that say, CHILD MOLESTER. I have issues with child molesters and I think they should sit in jail and rot. I would not have an issue with my tax money being used to personally keep a child molester in jail.

Thats it. We should start a new organization. We can call it, Adopt-a-molester. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can keep this child molester in jail for the rest of his life. Just 70 cents a day can assure you that this pedophile will have done to him what he has done to some helpless child every hour on the hour. Please help protect our kids. Isn't it worth just 70 cents a day?

I have three daughters. Most of my best friends and siblings have daughters also. It is a real nasty, nasty thought that someone out there could violate the innocence of my children and be out in 7 to 10 years to do it again. Possibly sooner.
For you hard knock arguing folk out there, I feel the same way about any child. Male, female, yours, mine, my best friends kid to my worst enemies kid to my total strangers kid. I am not excluding anyone.
great idea where do i send the money
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
Just 70 cents a day can assure you that this pedophile will have done to him what he has done to some helpless child every hour on the hour.
No one deserves to be raped.

ah castration blinding,cutting out tongues,execution, hey what about stoning ,oh no thats barbaric and middle eastern
I'm Middle Eastern.

I'm also very against forced castration, blinding, cutting out tongues, and all forms of execution including stoning.


Why did you feel the need to resort to racism?
 

kai

ragamuffin
jamaesi said:
No one deserves to be raped.


I'm Middle Eastern.

I'm also very against forced castration, blinding, cutting out tongues, and all forms of execution including stoning.


Why did you feel the need to resort to racism?

whos being racist i was being sarcastic, no offence intended , i was pointing out the double standard of critisizing some countries corperal and capital punishments while justifying your own.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
whos being racist i was being sarcastic, no offence intended , i was pointing out the double standard of critisizing some countries corperal and capital punishments while justifying your own.


Oh, okay, thank you for clarifying. :eek: I'm sorry for being haste and dense, I guess I'm a little sensitive today.

:sorry1:


I completely agree with your point.
 
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