Catholic Church Denies First Communion to Girl Who Wanted to Wear a Suit

[Skwim]

The fact is that the RCC took the Sacrament more seriously than the parents of the Communicant.

How so? It's obvious that to them appearance mean more than allowing a child her first Holy Communion.

The parents put dress above community and that's why what happened is what happened.

And the RCC put appearances first, which in part is why what happened is what happened.

Suppose the Communicant really wanted to wear her new bikini? Or that black thing Muslimas wear? Or her favorite Rap artists misogynous tee? Or a scarlet push up bra outside of her white gown?
Are there any limits to what you find oppressive?
Tom

False comparison. All she wanted to wear was what the boys were wearing, which was quite acceptable, unlike a bikini or a scarlet push up bra outside of her white gown which I assume would not be.

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[Revoltingest]

I'm no fan of the RCC and only marginally less critical of the EOC, but I think tradition is tradition. I don't think a girl wearing a white boy's suit for her First Holy Communion is appropriate at all. Not to mention the hairstyle. I can just see it now... one of the nuns who doesn't know the girl, or know she's a girl tries to get her into the boys' line. Now someone's madder than a wet long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Aye, it's a religion wedded to myth & ritual.
It's unreasonable to expect them to abandon their sense of propriety
& tradition just because we more secular types find them stuffy.

 

[columbus]

How so? It's obvious that to them appearance mean more than allowing a child her first Holy Communion.

Who stopped her from First Communion?
It was the parents.
Not the church.
Tom

 

[columbus]

And the RCC put appearances first, which in part is why what happened is what happened.

No. That just didn't happen.
The parents stopped her from participation. Not the church.
The church was willing to make special arrangements. The parents turned them down.
It's right there in your link.
Tom

 

[columbus]

lse comparison. All she wanted to wear was what the boys were wearing, which was quite acceptable, unlike a bikini or a scarlet push up bra outside of her white gown which I assume would not be.

If the boys wanted to wear bikinis or push up bras, do you think the church would let them?
No.
There's a modicum of a dress code. The church was willing to make an exception for her.
But her parents wouldn't accept anything but getting whatever they wanted, regardless of what anybody else wanted.
Catholicism is largely about community and the parents are more concerned about dress.
They picked the outcome, not the church.
Tom

 

[metis]

Why were charges not brought against this individual and him put in jail?

Because there were no witnesses. The choir director grabbed her breasts, whereas our daughter back away and yelled at him. We reported it to the priest who told us that a similar, but also unwitnessed, charge was brought to his attention. W/O witnesses, there were no charges that could have resulted in a conviction. He was removed, and we didn't find out until quite a bit later that he then went to a school to teach choir, and he died from cancer about five years ago.

This all happened about 35 years ago, btw. If I had to do it all over again, I would have at least tried to have the police investigate so that at the least he would realize that he could be caught at least maybe the next time.

 

[Jainarayan]

Aye, it's a religion wedded to myth & ritual.
It's unreasonable to expect them to abandon their sense of propriety
& tradition just because we more secular types find them stuffy.

You're not wrong. I doubt they will change much or reverse themselves on much any time soon.

 

[DavidFirth]

"A 9-year-old girl wasn't able to participate in her first Holy Communion because she wanted to wear a suit.

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"They said, 'We're hearing rumors so we want to know what she's wearing,'" the girl's mother, Chris Mansell said, adding that she felt the school's newly issued dress code requiring all girls to wear long sleeve white dresses was created to single her daughter out.

Administrators at the school, which is under the jurisdiction of the local Roman Catholic diocese, gave the family a choice: Either Cady wears a dress to the communion, or she could have a separate, private ceremony without her friends and classmates.

"He said we're raising our daughter wrong for not making her dress in a feminine way," Mansell said. "That's when I decided then and there to fight because they're purposefully excluding my daughter."

"My daughter just wants to wear pants while worshipping the Lord and receiving the Eucharist with her classmates," Mansell wrote in the post. "She's not hurting anyone. However, being excluded and ostracized IS hurting her.”

But the priest and school administrators held firm and when the first communion ceremony began, Cady was not allowed to participate. Administrators from St. John did not return a request for comment.

The family said they are crushed by the school’s decision, and have decided to remove Cady and her sister from the parish and place them in another school."
source​

Of course, a religion can make whatever rules it wants on what ever subject it wishes, but this strikes me as pretty unreasonable as well as hurtful. As brought out in the article, it wasn't that the girl didn't deserve to take her first communion, but that she didn't deserve to appear with the other kids when she did. The only reason I can think of is that the powers in charge were concerned with making an impression on the attending parishioners. The impression on parishioners being more important than the feelings of some kid and her participation in her first mass.

Kind of sad when one thinks about it.

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Do you have the link to the original story? There has got to be more to this than what we know.

 

[DavidFirth]

Okay, I found the original story and you're right, the church should have allowed her to partake, the dress code is too strict and needs to be changed, I believe. The only Biblical basis are the passages in Deuteronomy that forbid cross dressing but I don't think they apply here, especially not to a 9 year old girl who is not confused about her gender.

 

[metis]

Metis, I am sorry that happened to your daughter.

I wanted to deal with these two points separately. With the above, thanks, as I really do appreciate this.

The fact that they just sent the scum to another church exposes the corruption within that organization.

Please don't blame the entire organization because this actually is quite rare by percent or fraction. The RCC has a lot going for it that's positive, but the real travesty was the Vatican and so many of the bishops just trying to sweep this under the rug to keep the scandal from hurting the image of the church.

This also happens in other denominations as well, but because of the size of the RCC, it's much more noticeable than one's local Protestant church, for example. Does it happen also with the latter? You bet your sweet bippy it does and, again, the tendency is to sweep it all under the rug-- this is what institutions do, unfortunately, and how many times do we see that it's the cover-up that causes the greatest scandal. [are you reading this, Donald? ]

I grew up in a fundamentalist Protestant church, and one of our associate pastors was caught "hitting" with some of the girls in our youth group, and he was also whooshed away to another church. And at another time, the president of our council stole money from the Sunday collection and disappeared with his girlfriend until they got caught.

Neither of these two events made even the local papers let alone the national press, and I would suggest that the church, and maybe even the police, wanted to make sure that it didn't.
Even here at RF, when we catch someone in a lie, how many admit to being guilty? How many even admit that they're wrong on whatever? Some do with the latter but, unfortunately, it's pretty much human nature to defend one's self even through denial of what may be obvious to others. [are you reading this Mr. O'Reilly?]

It's too bad it is all too often this way, and looking back I definitely would have tried to handle it differently than I did.

Anyhow, thanks again, my friend.

 

[columbus]

Okay, I found the original story and you're right, the church should have allowed her to partake, the dress code is too strict and needs to be changed, I believe.

So....
Do you have a link? The OP flat out contradicted the link provided.
Tom

 

[DavidFirth]

Because there were no witnesses. The choir director grabbed her breasts, whereas our daughter back away and yelled at him. We reported it to the priest who told us that a similar, but also unwitnessed, charge was brought to his attention. W/O witnesses, there were no charges that could have resulted in a conviction. He was removed, and we didn't find out until quite a bit later that he then went to a school to teach choir, and he died from cancer about five years ago.

This all happened about 35 years ago, btw. If I had to do it all over again, I would have at least tried to have the police investigate so that at the least he would realize that he could be caught at least maybe the next time.

That's pathetic, horrible and a travesty. Down here in the South the choir director would most probably have had an "accidental fall" that would have resulted in substantial injury.

(Somebody would have beaten the crap out of him. We don't play around with crap like that down here.)

 

[DavidFirth]

So....
Do you have a link? The OP flat out contradicted the link provided.
Tom

There is more than one link if you do a Google search for the picture. I read this one:

Church denies First Communion to fashion-loving girl because she wanted to wear a suit

 

[Skwim]

If the boys wanted to wear bikinis or push up bras, do you think the church would let them?
No.

And that's my point. The church does have a dress code that stipulates dresses, and pants and jacket (I presume). What the church decided to do was decree who could wear what within that code. Obviously a decree specifically created to stop one girl from taking Holy Communion in pants and jacket. Appearances. Appearances. Appearances.

There's a modicum of a dress code. The church was willing to make an exception for her.

C'mon. Even my 11 year-old niece could see your absurdity here. There was no exception made. There was a special arrangement made to keep her from appearing before the congregation.

It's no wonder people are ignoring Catholicism.

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[Skwim]

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Do you have the link to the original story? There has got to be more to this than what we know.

It's in the OP as "source."

"The family said they are crushed by the school’s decision, and have decided to remove Cady and her sister from the parish and place them in another school."
source"

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[InChrist]

It's really more like a mini-robe, which is traditional.

That's really a stereotype as, even though I'm not Catholic (nor Christian), I've been attending different Catholic churches with my wife and we brought up our children Catholic. I studied this issue very thoroughly even before it became a much larger public issue, influenced by the fact that our youngest daughter was sexually abused by the choir director at my wife's church, and the church did fire him but then we found out he simply was moved by the diocese to another church.

The RCC by no means has a monopoly on this tragedy, as you mention above. However, it was the terrible and immoral mishandling of these cases, all the way up from many of the parishes to the Vatican itself.

I am so sorry about what happened to your daughter and the way the perpetrator was able to move on. This seems to be a very unjust pattern within many church organizations which really has to be addressed because sexual predators are attracted to such environments, knowing they will most likely fine easy victims and get away with their evil.

 

[columbus]

There is more than one link if you do a Google search for the picture. I read this one:

Church denies First Communion to fashion-loving girl because she wanted to wear a suit

Here's a quote from the link
"When the Mansells dug in their heels, insisting that their daughter should wear the outfit she had picked out for her special day, the argument escalated quickly — to the point that the Mansells pulled their daughters out of the school and the church altogether."
The Mansells picked the outcome. The church offered options, none of which gave the Mansells everything that they wanted, so they refused anything.
And are now lying about who forbade the ceremony. It was them, not the church.
Tom

 

[Skwim]

From another news site.

“She has a love for suits and wears them often,” Mansell wrote on Facebook. “Since there wasn’t initially a dress code given for the event, we assumed she could wear a suit. We went all out and made a weekend out of finding her the perfect outfit… one that makes her feel beautiful and confident.”

But when news hit the local parish that Cady was going to wear a suit instead of “feminine” attire, the family was told the church wouldn’t allow a girl in a suit to get communion from a man in a smock. They changed the school’s dress code to specifically ban girls from wearing suits.

But in an interesting twist, several girls were allowed to receive communion even though they broke the school’s dress code.

“The dress code states NO sleeveless dress are allowed, shoulders must be covered. But almost all the girls wore sleeveless dresses,” Mansell said. “MY daughter was the only girl excluded for violating the dress code. And we knew this would happen.”
source

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[columbus]

Obviously a decree specifically created to stop one girl from taking Holy Communion

This didn't happen and it's right there in every link.
The parents stopped their daughter from taking Holy Communion.
Not the church.
Tom

 

[metis]

I am so sorry about what happened to your daughter and the way the perpetrator was able to move on.

Thanks, I very much appreciate this.

This seems to be a very unjust pattern within many church organizations which really has to be addressed because sexual predators are attracted to such environments, knowing they will most likely fine easy victims and get away with their evil.

And churches are more prone to this than probably most other institutions largely because it puts kids in close proximity with adults who can use their position and their supposed credibility to attract them. And because the clergy and even many in the congregation have a vested interest in the church itself, the inclination is not to upset the apple-cart by raising a fuss.

We're seeing much the same kind of thing with the Hollywood and Fox News scandals whereas quite a few women have been sexually assaulted with very little negative consequences-- at least until now. Even with Trump's past record and his frequent demeaning of women, and also of men that he disagreed with, people still voted for him and many still support him still.

We've taken on way too much of a "boys will be boys" kind of attitude matched with "as long as it didn't happen to me" attitude that's so troubling and which allows these atrocities to continue. IMO, we need to hunker-down on such immorality and go after the culprits who are doing this even though it may not happen to us or to our own children or spouses.