Catholic Church is more Biblical than Protestantism!

[metis]

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men ...

The only religious traditions we should keep are those taught by the Apostles.

We've covered this before, as following the traditions is not only found in the NT but also that Jesus and the Apostles gave the right to make some changes that might have to be done by the Church in order to adjust to new situations. This is just plain old common sense, and literally all organizations have to do that, and the Church was and is an organization.

But to be clear, any changes made cannot go against both early Church teachings nor the Gospel.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Tradition and Scripture together make up the Deposit of Faith.
Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.”42
Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching.”43
83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus' teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. the first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition. CCC

Tradition is worthless unless backed up by the scriptures. Colossians 2:8 Even in John's day, some went out from the truth and were teaching false doctrine. 1 John 2:18-19 and 1 John 4:1-3

 

[TrueBeliever37]

We've covered this before, as following the traditions is not only found in the NT but also that Jesus and the Apostles gave the right to make some changes that might have to be done by the Church in order to adjust to new situations. This is just plain old common sense, and literally all organizations have to do that, and the Church was and is an organization.

But to be clear, any changes made cannot go against both early Church teachings nor the Gospel.

You mean things like calling no man Father, and forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats?

 

[metis]

Tradition is worthless unless backed up by the scriptures. Colossians 2:8 Even in John's day, some went out from the truth and were teaching false doctrine. 1 John 2:18-19 and 1 John 4:1-3

Apparently, you've conveniently forgotten that the scriptures itself mentioning following traditions. Also, the scriptures do not capture all that Jesus and the Twelve taught: John 21[25] But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Apparently, you've conveniently forgotten that the scriptures itself mentioning following traditions. Also, the scriptures do not capture all that Jesus and the Twelve taught: John 21[25] But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

The apostles were to teach the world all things he had commanded them. That is what they did. It's recorded in the word. Otherwise we could be tricked by anyone or anything.

And the word is what we will be judged by, not anyone's opinion or tradition.

 

[metis]

You mean things like calling no man Father, and forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats?

The word "father" is "abba", whereas the root word for a "priest" in Koine Greek is "episcopi", which means "elder". So, "elder" "father"...

IOW, we don't confuse our priests with being God-- trust me on this.

 

[metis]

The apostles were to teach the world all things he had commanded them. That is what they did. It's recorded in the word. Otherwise we could be tricked by anyone or anything.

And the word is what we will be judged by, not anyone's opinion or tradition.

Again, you miss the point, and you all too often pull this nonsense.

And btw, using the scriptures is part of our tradition, so should we stop doing that as well?

 

[pearl]

Tradition is worthless unless backed up by the scriptures.

I think you confuse Tradition with tradition.

in the Catholic Church Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture together make up the Deposit of Faith.
The Sacred Deposit of Faith does not and cannot contain every truth. God is greater than words can ever express, even the words of Sacred Infallible Scripture. God is greater even than His own Deeds in Sacred Tradition. God is infinite and eternal. God cannot be completely described or completely understood by Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium, nor by any finite thing. Therefore, not every truth of Faith is found within the Sacred Deposit of Faith.

Sacred Tradition is “the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation.” Sacred Tradition includes both the deeds and their meaning. The deeds of God, and especially the deeds of Christ, teach us Christ's Way of holiness, which is partially-revealed in the deeds God wrought in Old Testament times and fully-revealed in Christ's own life of self-giving. The meaning of the deeds includes love, faith, hope, mercy, prayer, self-sacrifice, and more, as Christ put it into practice in the events of His life, His death on the Cross, His Resurrection, and the “final sending of the Spirit of truth” at Pentecost.

Sacred Tradition is not these ideas themselves (of love, faith, hope, mercy, prayer, self-sacrifice, and more), but rather their embodiment in the deeds of God in salvation history, in the life and works of Christ, and in the Church that Christ established. Sacred Tradition is infallible because it is the deeds that God wrought, especially the deeds that God-Incarnate wrought, in the history of salvation. The true meaning of Sacred Tradition is infallible, just as the true meaning of Sacred Scripture is infallible.

 

[abbabdon]

Many sacrificed their lives to torture and death, their homes, communes and libraries of scripture to arson, and their very manuscripts and properties to destruction, during the pentecost & inquisition times.. Some would even say that the miracle of a good part of the old gnostic scripture, coptic esoterica and the like Surviving at all is just as great a Phenom as 'the nation of Israel' still standing to this day. I know I would..

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I think you confuse Tradition with tradition.

in the Catholic Church Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture together make up the Deposit of Faith.
The Sacred Deposit of Faith does not and cannot contain every truth. God is greater than words can ever express, even the words of Sacred Infallible Scripture. God is greater even than His own Deeds in Sacred Tradition. God is infinite and eternal. God cannot be completely described or completely understood by Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium, nor by any finite thing. Therefore, not every truth of Faith is found within the Sacred Deposit of Faith.

Sacred Tradition is “the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation.” Sacred Tradition includes both the deeds and their meaning. The deeds of God, and especially the deeds of Christ, teach us Christ's Way of holiness, which is partially-revealed in the deeds God wrought in Old Testament times and fully-revealed in Christ's own life of self-giving. The meaning of the deeds includes love, faith, hope, mercy, prayer, self-sacrifice, and more, as Christ put it into practice in the events of His life, His death on the Cross, His Resurrection, and the “final sending of the Spirit of truth” at Pentecost.

Sacred Tradition is not these ideas themselves (of love, faith, hope, mercy, prayer, self-sacrifice, and more), but rather their embodiment in the deeds of God in salvation history, in the life and works of Christ, and in the Church that Christ established. Sacred Tradition is infallible because it is the deeds that God wrought, especially the deeds that God-Incarnate wrought, in the history of salvation. The true meaning of Sacred Tradition is infallible, just as the true meaning of Sacred Scripture is infallible.

Anything taught that doesn't line up and agree with what the Apostles taught in the word of God is of no religious value.

For instance your tradition teaches baptism in titles - something the Apostles didn't teach. They baptized in the name of the one that shed the blood for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[pearl]

For instance your tradition teaches baptism in titles - something the Apostles didn't teach. They baptized in the name of the one that shed the blood for the forgiveness of sins.

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit Mt 28:19.

 

[abbabdon]

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit Mt 28:19.

In nomini patri et fili et spiritus sancti, amen. The veil of monotheism at it's best.

 

[metis]

Anything taught that doesn't line up and agree with what the Apostles taught in the word of God is of no religious value.

That's simply not true as has already been spelled out here.

You are ignoring the fact that Jesus gave the Apostles the power to make adjustments as needed, and no where did he say that we must follow the NT to the "T", especially since the NT hadn't even been penned when they were alive. And the ending of John's Gospel makes it clear that the there was much more that Jesus taught that didn't end up in his Gospel.

Again, the key to living in the faith as Jesus expressed is summed up in his Two Commandments: love of God and love of neighbor.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit Mt 28:19.

Great - So now show me one instance in the scriptures where they baptized anyone using that formula.

First of all it says in the name singular.

Second - The other parallel verse to the one you gave, such as Luke 24:47 has to mean the same thing.

Third - The Apostles were there and they knew what he meant. Just look and see how they baptized. See Acts 2:38 and Acts 4:12 and Acts 8:16 and Acts 10:48 and Acts 19:5

If you understand that there are not 3 persons in the Godhead you can see why the Apostles baptized like they did in the scriptures.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

That's simply not true as has already been spelled out here.

You are ignoring the fact that Jesus gave the Apostles the power to make adjustments as needed, and no where did he say that we must follow the NT to the "T", especially since the NT hadn't even been penned when they were alive. And the ending of John's Gospel makes it clear that the there was much more that Jesus taught that didn't end up in his Gospel.

Again, the key to living in the faith as Jesus expressed is summed up in his Two Commandments: love of God and love of neighbor.

If you think you can teach anything that contradicts the scriptures, and be right, well you are BADLY mistaken.

 

[metis]

If you think you can teach anything that contradicts the scriptures, and be right, well you are BADLY mistaken.

I did not say that nor imply that. If you read what I posted carefully, you'll see that I was referring to the simple fact that the Church does change over time, thus what I said had literally nothing to do with me.

 

[pearl]

Great - So now show me one instance in the scriptures where they baptized anyone using that formula.

Since Scripture was written well after the church was baptizing its pretty safe to think the such practice was already in practice.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Since Scripture was written well after the church was baptizing its pretty safe to think the such practice was already in practice.

In other words the tradition of baptizing in titles has NO examples of being used in the scriptures, or of being used by the original Apostles.

Peter the man with the keys to the kingdom, taught baptism in the name for the remission of sin. So any successors that didn't teach that started teaching error.

I disagree with you. It is dangerous to follow men who don't follow what the Apostles taught. Galatians 1:8-9 and Colossians 2:8-9

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Again, you miss the point, and you all too often pull this nonsense.

And btw, using the scriptures is part of our tradition, so should we stop doing that as well?

Metis,

It is not nonsense to use the scriptures to establish what is true doctrine. No don't stop using the scriptures - Do use them.

Following traditions of men instead of scriptures has lead to things like the following:
1. infant baptism
2. sprinkling instead of immersion for baptism
3. using titles instead of the name for baptism ( the apostles taught to baptize in the name for remission of sins).
4. belief in a Trinity (multiple Gods) - The apostles never taught a Triune God. They taught that God is a Spirit. John 4:24

 

[metis]

Metis,

It is not nonsense to use the scriptures to establish what is true doctrine. No don't stop using the scriptures - Do use them.

Following traditions of men instead of scriptures has lead to things like the following:
1. infant baptism
2. sprinkling instead of immersion for baptism
3. using titles instead of the name for baptism ( the apostles taught to baptize in the name for remission of sins).
4. belief in a Trinity (multiple Gods) - The apostles never taught a Triune God. They taught that God is a Spirit. John 4:24

A "true believer" accepts the reality of not only what scripture says but also what is common sense. Tradition has always been a part of Christianity whether you want to accept it or not. Also, it is 100% disingenuous of you to state or imply that I don't "use" the scriptures, thus it's time for me to do some "housecleaning".