Catholic mass and agnosticism

[Philos]

Folks,


Is a loving God possible?


Having been through (and still in) some grim ill health recently, I have been wondering about something. Attending mass does bring a little comfort in these times, but I'm not a Catholic and cannot accept the catechism. So, what is an agnostic like me doing there at all?


Maybe the Catholics have got it all wrong, indeed all Christians and any kind of theists have it wrong. To the agnostic this is possible, and also possible that some theists have it right. An agnostic can certainly believe in the possibility of a loving God, even hope that there is one. I don't see a problem with that.


Now, if there is a loving God, why should that God be bothered if we have got the names, and perhaps the whole story, wrong. I don't think so for one minute. There may be a loving God beyond any prophecy that we have known, or could know, and this God may be listening to every prayer in every language as a sign of our open hearts.


A psychotherapist friend once said to me “Buddhism and Christianity are the same thing.” I was disconcerted by that at the time, but nowadays it is beginning to feel true. In this case my agnostic participation in the Catholic mass or the Buddhist meditation may be as authentic as anyone's. I participate without exclusive belief in that story, but does it matter?


Is there any sense in these thoughts?


Alex.

 

[Deidre]

I've come to accept that there is a little good and a little bad in ALL religions. For me, none hold objective truths about the existence of a deity, but if you feel a sense of comfort from mass...or from reading Scripture, or the Qur'an, or any other religious text...or if meditation brings you to a more peaceful place, etc...then, just go with it.

I don't think anyone 'knows' who God is, with certainty. Maybe we're not meant to be certain.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There's a lot of sense to your thoughts. I relate to an extent, though I'm not agnostic. I practice Nichiren Buddhism off and on and am a Catholic though I don't practice.

The devotional part of Catholicism is so uplifting. When you are part of the Church--taking the sacraments--it makes you feel you are part of one body, one humanity, (or Christ) however one may put it. I feel it's beneficial to learn about a loving God from a Christian perspective through the Catholic Church if you want to take the jump to learn about God in their point of view. Spirituality is a growth process rather than finding a faith and saying "Oh, I believe that" and follow it. It's not wrong to participate in Mass as a non-catholic. I have done that for almost ten years with my friend who is Roman Catholic. The only thing is not taking the Eucharist and going to confession.

If you go to confession, tell the priest if appropriate that you want to talk about what you are struggling with. You can ask him (God not the priest) to bless you as well.

To answer your question, though, since you seem to like Mass I'd say a loving God is possible and the best way to understand and know that is participation in the Church. You learn more about the Catechism inside of you and you know inwardly what you agree with and what you don't.

Catholicism aside, you can always pray. You don't have to pray to a Christian God, a Muslim God, or so have you. You can start developing a relationship with life, who you are inside (probably why Buddhism and Christianity are similar-plus, they are both eastern faiths), and start finding coping strategies to handle your health by finding answers from within.

I remember going to a Zen meditation meeting and one person told me a Catholic comes in to pray to God during the meditations. It's not "Zen" but she uses Zen-like meditations as it lets her feel closer to her Creator.

A loving God is possible when you develop a relationship--learn about God (in general, not specifically Abrahamic). Most if not all religions have some form of prayer in their faith. Maybe start with prayer and maybe a God (any) who is lovable may give you a revelation through your prayers and you may find through that whether Catholicism is for you.

The key is, spirituality is a revelation rather than something you find on your own (that's one reason why Buddhism warns ago the Ego). So it takes time.

Folks,

Is a loving God possible?


Having been through (and still in) some grim ill health recently, I have been wondering about something. Attending mass does bring a little comfort in these times, but I'm not a Catholic and cannot accept the catechism. So, what is an agnostic like me doing there at all?


Maybe the Catholics have got it all wrong, indeed all Christians and any kind of theists have it wrong. To the agnostic this is possible, and also possible that some theists have it right. An agnostic can certainly believe in the possibility of a loving God, even hope that there is one. I don't see a problem with that.


Now, if there is a loving God, why should that God be bothered if we have got the names, and perhaps the whole story, wrong. I don't think so for one minute. There may be a loving God beyond any prophecy that we have known, or could know, and this God may be listening to every prayer in every language as a sign of our open hearts.


A psychotherapist friend once said to me “Buddhism and Christianity are the same thing.” I was disconcerted by that at the time, but nowadays it is beginning to feel true. In this case my agnostic participation in the Catholic mass or the Buddhist meditation may be as authentic as anyone's. I participate without exclusive belief in that story, but does it matter?


Is there any sense in these thoughts?


Alex.

 

[George-ananda]

I think the Catholic concept of God as a loving father (forget the dogmatic details) works well for many.

I have come to believe the loving God is also internal to ourselves; not an external thing. As God is in everyone; loving each other is loving God.

 

[Child of Stardust]

At one point I thought it was disingenuous, but realized that I took it more seriously than half the people sitting in the pews, who not only didn't believe but were just attending out of family duty. Just be honest about your agnosticism, when you have the opportunity to be of course.

I too have found what I think is real spirituality in Catholic Christianity, and that is the primary reason for me having a kind of agnostic faith in the core of it (though I take issue with the corruption in its history both distant and recent; it does not help their claim that God established them as the "magesterium" to guide humankind). I am considering Anglicanism now but that's another thread.

Maybe this "I believe cause it enriches my life" makes us Jamesian pragmatists, but I don't know. I think a lot of people are like this, they just aren't aware of their skeptical side as much, or suppress it. To see both sides but still make a decision is a form of courage in my opinion.

And remember spirituality is as much about the community as it is the individual. Just participating in a religious service can sometimes make you believe a little, and open your heart to spiritual experiences in new ways. Likewise it can make a community less cynical (just as extremist religion can also harm society), so you don't need to feel religion is "evil" like some New Atheists would have it.

The voice in your head "you shouldn't believe this irrational nonsense" is silly in my mind and a symptom of Western/Western-influenced culture. In other cultures reason is distrusted when intuition comes into play. There is no reason why one alone should rule. One can see things the other can't, and vice versa. Remember, a voice that says "bad you, you are believing in something your logic doesn't understand" is a MORAL voice put there by culture, not a logical one.

There was a man with no corpus callossum (sp? anyway it connects the two halves of the brain); his left brain didn't believe in God and his right brain did. Perhaps we are all a little like that. The world is a complex place and if we all waited for certainty we would never do anything. Almost every traditional society has had religion; that doesn't make all or any of them true but it does strongly suggest it is there for a reason.

 

[Philos]

Folks,

What kindly and thoughtful replies.

Stardust,

Your point about the corpus callosum is well taken. I think that a hard bitten agnostic may indeed be like this. Something I have noticed is that I can click from believing to unbelieving and back again in an instant. The amazing thing is that with the 'click' the whole world changes. This is not an intellectual exercise but an emotional and perceptual change. I occupy a different world in the believing phase from the unbelieving phase.

I think this is something about empathy. The agnostic position seems to be empathic with both the believer and the unbeliever. We kind of 'get it' with both positions.

Phew.

Alex.