Caution: Homosexuality Dangerous to Health

[Ardhanariswar]

i think the above post by melody is a prime example of why the bible should never be taken seriusly.

 

[Runt]

***MOD POST***

Just a note... this thread is about whether or not homosexuality is dangerous to your health, and not about the role of women in the household. I believe there is an exellent thread already devoted to that topic, if you care to take your comments there. Thank you!

 

[Bastet]

I have, thus far, stayed out of this thread, because I didn't want to get into this argument, yet again. It is the same crap, over and over. Admittedly, I didn't find it until it was 12 pages long, and by then, most of what I would have said in rebuttal, had been said by others (thank you!). Up until now, the most irritating part of this thread to me, has been the improper use of capital letters within a sentence (or lack of capitals at the beginning of one), and the atrocious spelling of some. It amazes me that some people can spell 4 and 5 syllable words such as "abomination", "fornicator", and "adulterer", and yet misspell something as simple as the word "vile".

...man is capable of the most vial acts.

Quick! I feel the need to be vial - somebody pass me a test tube! I realise my little rant is off-topic, but it's been bugging me for days...


The following quotes are the reason I just had to add my two cents to this thread. Most of the rubbish I've been reading, is nothing I haven't read and responded to before. But honestly, I've never heard such utter tripe as the following:

No. Stress doesn't focus the mind. Stress causes physical and mental problems, even death.

Gee, you might want to let the education system in on that little bit of info...they'll have to cancel exams. Such a shame too, because I'm one of those people who work best under pressure - and exams are definitely that - pure stress! Guess that's as good a reason as any for me to never study again. "Sorry, can't do it - it'll kill me!" Riiiiiight.

But the person who is under stress from worry, who is experiencing problems with no apparent solutions, who is tired and depressed, is the person who turns to drugs and alcohol for relief.

No. The person who turns to drugs and alcohol for relief from their problems, is the person who is too gutless to sort them out. Or too proud or cowardly to say "I need help". They would rather hide from their problems and hope they go away. But again, this is off topic, since stress is not a contributing factor to homosexuality, and heterosexuals abuse alcohol and drugs too.

I'm refering to your fantasy; promiscuous sex, sex in exotic locations, in public washrooms, in parks, sex with complete strangers, dangerous sex, sex that is prohibited, the stuff you find in a romance novel.

I don't know what romance novels you've been reading, but they're not the same ones as me! And I've read hundreds lol. I've gotta say, that's not the usual 'romance novel' formula...maybe you're reading some kinky adult erotica?


My Fantasy as a Gay Woman, by Bastet

To marry the woman of my dreams. To live with her and her children. To have a baby with her, and raise our family. To teach our children love and tolerance, and not to judge others, or hate them because they are different or don't understand them. To see our children have children, and pass those same values on to them. To grow old with the love of my life. Oh, and a veggie garden would be nice too!


You'll notice none of your "stuff" is in my fantasy. Any wild sex I have will occur away from the eyes of others, indoors, with my girlfriend (who I happen to know very well).

I'm talking about an escape from the pressures of living, from reality. I'm talking about your drug ie. homosexuality.

Homosexuality is my reality. It is a part of who I am. It is not something I use to escape from my every day - it is my every day. I fail to see, with the narrow minded attitudes that abound, how you can consider homosexuality "an escape from the pressures of living, from reality". Take a look around you.

Yep. There are homosexuals in the church. Maybe the "finery" is what attracts them.

Right...cause you know the best gay fashion designers always go to church for their inspiration for the new Spring line...where everyone brings out their tacky 'Sunday best'. It's more likely a belief in God, and a wish to share that with others in a place of worship, is what draws gays to church.

They have the same mentality as the man who dresses up like a woman, the woman who wears a black leather jacket, the people in the parades, the show offs, the people who like to dress up in costumes, who like disguises.

That really is a nasty little stereotyped mindset you have there, isn't it? I've never heard such unadulterated drivel! Not all gay men are flaming, limp wristed pansies; not all gay women are men-hating feminists with hairy armpits. As has been pointed out by others here, the majority of homosexuals you could pass on the street, and never know it. I'm one of them - I look *gasp* normal! You are judging the majority on the acts of a minority (that, and television stereotypes) - never a smart thing to do. It's a good thing I don't judge all Christians, on the acts of some of the narrow minded bigots I've met here.

It's the marriage of a man and a woman that doesn't end in divorce. Marriage according to the law.

Changes in the divorce laws also underminded the traditional concept of marriage as did recognizing common law marriage and similar partnerships.

Now, I hope you're sitting down, because this may come as a total shock to you - not everyone is Christian, and not everyone believes in your God, or your Bible. Christianity is not the only religion in the world; it's not even the oldest. Therefore, there is no earthly reason why the rest of the world (or even the country), should be forced to abide by your biblical 'laws'. Nobody is forcing you to marry homosexual people in your church. So don't. Nobody is forcing you to invite homosexuals into your home. So don't. Nobody is forcing you to have homosexual friends. So don't. Nobody is forcing you to have homosexual sex. So don't. But don't think you can force your narrow minded 'principles' on the rest of the world, because you'll fail. Common law is there for a reason.

 

[true blood]

Sin=death. God doesn't like sin but its important to remember that God still loves the sinner.

 

[Pah]

Sin=death. God doesn't like sin but its important to remember that God still loves the sinner.

We've said in another thread that Genesis does not support that and Paul speaks of spiritual death.

It's in another thread and doesn't belong here

-pah-

 

[LittleNipper]

I have, thus far, stayed out of this thread, because I didn't want to get into this argument, yet again. It is the same crap, over and over. Admittedly, I didn't find it until it was 12 pages long, and by then, most of what I would have said in rebuttal, had been said by others (thank you!). Up until now, the most irritating part of this thread to me, has been the improper use of capital letters within a sentence (or lack of capitals at the beginning of one), and the atrocious spelling of some. It amazes me that some people can spell 4 and 5 syllable words such as "abomination", "fornicator", and "adulterer", and yet misspell something as simple as the word "vile".

You seem less than tolerant here! Admittedly, we all might learn to spell better-----but then people never became demoralized or diseased by their spelling habits nor their typing abilities. This seems to be a common ploy---
to degrade a person's education if one cannot find fault with his character.

My Fantasy as a Gay Woman, by Bastet

To marry the woman of my dreams. To live with her and her children. To have a baby with her, and raise our family. To teach our children love and tolerance, and not to judge others, or hate them because they are different or don't understand them. To see our children have children, and pass those same values on to them. To grow old with the love of my life. Oh, and a veggie garden would be nice too!

The problem is that homosexual relationships do not procreate children. To live with HER CHLDREN AND YOUR CHILDREN, you as women would need to enlist the services of males. This goes against supposed homosexual logic. It goes against nature. You want your cake and eat it to. Whose values do you wish to pass along----yours or those of the father?

Now, I hope you're sitting down, because this may come as a total shock to you - not everyone is Christian, and not everyone believes in your God, or your Bible. Christianity is not the only religion in the world; it's not even the oldest. Therefore, there is no earthly reason why the rest of the world (or even the country), should be forced to abide by your biblical 'laws'. Nobody is forcing you to marry homosexual people in your church. So don't. Nobody is forcing you to invite homosexuals into your home. So don't. Nobody is forcing you to have homosexual friends. So don't. Nobody is forcing you to have homosexual sex. So don't. But don't think you can force your narrow minded 'principles' on the rest of the world, because you'll fail. Common law is there for a reason.

Public schools are beginning to promote homosexuality as an "alternative" lifestyle. It isn't, and that value judgment butts heads with the values I want to instill in my children (which I had with my wife and not some convenient extra-marrital relationship or some extra burden placed on an already overstrapped healthcare plan). You are forcing my tax dollars to be wasted spreading your values. This is OK in your eyes because attitudes and lifestyles are secular to your way of thinking. Likely you will think me hateful.
I'm anything but. I have friends and they know my Biblical stance on most issues. I love the arts and I do some acting. I live in the real world with real
problems. I've simply discovered that there is a Savior who is bigger than the problems and issues. Sadly, there are many who simply wish to relegate HIM to the very closet that they are trying to escape from.

 

[Bastet]

You seem less than tolerant here! Admittedly, we all might learn to spell better-----but then people never became demoralized or diseased by their spelling habits nor their typing abilities. This seems to be a common ploy---
to degrade a person's education if one cannot find fault with his character.

Actually, I've been extremely tolerant - I sat on my hands for 21 pages before I said anything (mostly because it's off topic in this thread). I find plenty of fault with the character of said bad speller, but (perhaps fortunately), personal attacks are not allowed on this forum. I was merely pointing out that it would seem some need to focus a little more on their spelling, and a little less on spouting statistics from very dodgy sources, on a subject they know nothing about. Some have obviously spent much time gathering the information in the first place - and yet it's too much trouble to open a dictionary to check the spelling of a word. I know people fumble on a keyboard and accidentally misspell words - I do it myself. But it (and the more annoying capitalised words within sentences), has been consistant, and I found it annoying. My point was that it was more annoying than the anti-gay 'arguments' that people had been posting. Most of those I just find funny after hearing them so often...

The problem is that homosexual relationships do not procreate children. To live with HER CHLDREN AND YOUR CHILDREN, you as women would need to enlist the services of males. This goes against supposed homosexual logic. It goes against nature. You want your cake and eat it to. Whose values do you wish to pass along----yours or those of the father?

You assume too much. The children I was referring to already exist (her children), from a previous heterosexual marriage. I have no wish to cut their father from their lives, so yes, his values would be passed on to them, along with those of my parter and my own. The only part of a male I would need to procreate, is his sperm - which I can get from a sperm bank, without 'duping' anyone in the process. The only person obligated to pay for that would be me. I do not need to physically have sex with a man to procreate, therefore it does not go against my sexuality. And, since sperm donors are anonymous, the values of the donor would not be relevant. Except, perhaps, that of generosity - enabling those to have children, who might not otherwise have the chance. If I am not meant to have children, then it will not happen - but the technology is there, and I don't see why I should not be able to use it, when heterosexual women (both single and married), can. There is no logic in that.

Public schools are beginning to promote homosexuality as an "alternative" lifestyle. It isn't, and that value judgment butts heads with the values I want to instill in my children (which I had with my wife and not some convenient extra-marrital relationship or some extra burden placed on an already overstrapped healthcare plan). You are forcing my tax dollars to be wasted spreading your values. This is OK in your eyes because attitudes and lifestyles are secular to your way of thinking.

Homosexuality is not an "alternative lifestyle". It is an alternative sexuality. So you don't like that - so what? You are free to teach your children whatever you please at home, so do that. And if you're a really good teacher, they might even believe you. I am not forcing anyone's tax dollars to be wasted, as I am not the one who began teaching these things in schools. I personally think it's great that people are being educated. And here's another news flash: homosexuals pay taxes too! And, because they are denied the right to marry legally, they pay more taxes than you. Since everyone's taxes are being spread around equally, and you seem so intent on denying homosexuals children, I could say that my tax dollars are being wasted teaching your children at all.

Likely you will think me hateful.

Yep

I'm anything but. I have friends and they know my Biblical stance on most issues. I love the arts and I do some acting. I live in the real world with real problems. I've simply discovered that there is a Savior who is bigger than the problems and issues.

That's nice for you, and I have no problem with that. My problem is that you're trying to make the rest of the world believe in a "Saviour" that they don't. As already pointed out: Christianity is not the only religion in the world, so they should not have governing rule over the rest of the world.

Sadly, there are many who simply wish to relegate HIM to the very closet that they are trying to escape from.

Actually, I'm not trying to escape from any closet. I don't hide who I am, because there is no shame in it. I just don't believe that a higher power is going to solve the world's problems. No crime in that.

 

[Pah]

//cut//

The problem is that homosexual relationships do not procreate children. To live with HER CHLDREN AND YOUR CHILDREN, you as women would need to enlist the services of males. This goes against supposed homosexual logic. It goes against nature. You want your cake and eat it to. Whose values do you wish to pass along----yours or those of the father?

I can really understand the frustration Bastet feels for I have refuted this claim so many times (my estimation is six times) and we still get this crap. The pregnancy rate for male homosexuals is 50%. This means that male homosexuals father children at more than half the rate than heterosexual males. Additionally, they can and so adopt children and some may even used a surragte in vitro fertilized by the male homosexuals sperm. GOT THAT!!!! The rate for homsexual males in Japan is 85%. GOT THAT???

The pressure to prove one's heterosexuality leads to increased sexual behaviour in adolescents. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered teens have twice the rate of pregnancy or impregnation as straight teens (Massachusetts 1997 Youth Risk Behavior Survey). http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Situational_sexual_behavior

TWICE the rate GOT THAT???


Female homosexuals have a higher rate than the average rate for male homosexuals..This means that they conceive more children than the male homosexual. They have a rate that approximates the rate for heterosexual women. Additionally , they can and do adopt children or receive donated sperm. GOT THAT!!!!

Many male and female homosexuals have custody of children when divorced is obtained AND THEY BRING THEM INTO THE HOMOSEXUAL PARTNERSHIP, GOT THAT???

The problem is you do not know what you are talking about

Public schools are beginning to promote homosexuality as an "alternative" lifestyle.

NO!!! It is not an alternative lifestyle becuase that would imply a choice that is not avaiable to the homosexual. Further, homosexuality is NOT part of the curriculum in a huge majority (if not ALL) of public schools. And still further, homosexual is a normal orietation.

It isn't, and that value judgment butts heads with the values I want to instill in my children (which I had with my wife and not some convenient extra-marrital relationship or some extra burden placed on an already overstrapped healthcare plan).

Instill your values in your child, by all means but MY CHILDREN are NOT yours and I resent your efforts to corrupt my children with your ignorant objecteions and a take-over of secular society by way of the Bible.

You are forcing my tax dollars to be wasted spreading your values. This is OK in your eyes because attitudes and lifestyles are secular to your way of thinking.

Please identify in the Treasury or in any appropiation bill YOUR money It's no longer "your money" after you pay your obligation to the government.GOT THAT???

Likely you will think me hateful. I'm anything but. I have friends and they know my Biblical stance on most issues. I love the arts and I do some acting.

Those words echo the words of the 60's and 70's - "some of my best friends are black" How pitiful to hear it again. It is one of the most subtle forms of strengthening discrimination and continuing hatred. You probably mean well but you do just as much damage as those in the racially troubled days. I bet you laugh at homosexual jokes too!

Your quip about the arts and acting is nothing but sterotyping.

I live in the real world with real problems. I've simply discovered that there is a Savior who is bigger than the problems and issues. Sadly, there are many who simply wish to relegate HIM to the very closet that they are trying to escape from

We don't want Jesus in a closet - we'd love to see him in your home - and keep him there.

-pah-

 

[LittleNipper]

<<He is accountable to GOD and the wife is to be an encouragement to her husband. >>

Okay...let's apply this to real life. My husband is an atheist. I am a Christian. If I submit to my husband and my husband doesn't want me to go to church or talk about God to our children, do I take it this means I must be obedient and turn my back on God and encourage my husband to remove God from our children's lives....and God will throw my husband in hell but I'm in the clear because I submitted to his will?

I think the Bible has some wonderful stories for teaching people about God, but it is also full of intolerance and antiquated ideas that were reflective of the society of the times. The Bible was written by man and translated by man and man decided which books made it into the Bible and which didn't. There are numerous examples where man chose to substitute a word because he didn't care for the interpretation of the original word. For example, "Suffer not a witch to live" is a very popular quote from the Bible. Too bad it's not correct. The true translation of the word is "Suffer not a poisoner to live" but...oops....how could the church possibly come up with an excuse to burn women as witches if they didn't fudge the translation?

I do not believe that God created women to be subservient to men. Look at any strong partnership and you will find that the strengths and weaknesses of the partners complement the whole. In my marriage, my husband and I defer to each other and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Melody

As far as witches go, I understand that words may have more then one meaning. The problem is when someone goes OUTSIDE the scripture for their interpretation and not let scripture shed light on scripture. You might just wish to read I Samuel 28:6-16. Poison comes in many forms.

A help meet hardly sounds subservient but rather a partnership. Now if you were a "Christian" then you should not marry an atheist. This is Scriptural. You are not to be unequally yoked (again, this sound like a partnership). An atheist isn't a child of GOD. The simple fact is that Christians should not even date non-believers (see II CORINTHIANS 6:14-18) This doesn't preclude a witnessing friendship with non-believer. I'd imagine that the non-Christian who was uninterested would soon depart.

A person who becomes a Christian after marriage must place their full trust in GOD. This is how people grow in faith. They begin to see GOD doing the impossible. If the atheistic husband doesn't want his wife to go to church, then the wife should study and pray at home. The Christain answers to a higher authority. GOD will provide the opportuities to witness to Children. They will most likely see a difference in between the actions of the faithful Christian and the infidel.

You may wish to read LUKE 1:68-71, II Peter 1:19-21, II Samuel 23:1-2, Acts 3:17-18, Revelations 1:10-19.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

if you where a christain, you would marry whom you love.

Jesus loved everyone unconditionally. do you call yourself a christain? thats a surprise, no really. almost everything you say goes against what Jesus taught.

"The Christain answers to a higher authority. "

thats a matter of opinion. God teaches about understanding and tolerance. ive seen popes battle stupid medival wars and conqests for the holy land, only to invest in money and power. i can see clearely how the church answers to the devil. but thats a matter of opinion too.

 

[Lightkeeper]

As far as witches go, I understand that words may have more then one meaning. The problem is when someone goes OUTSIDE the scripture for their interpretation and not let scripture shed light on scripture. You might just wish to read I Samuel 28:6-16. Poison comes in many forms.

A help meet hardly sounds subservient but rather a partnership. Now if you were a "Christian" then you should not marry an atheist. This is Scriptural. You are not to be unequally yoked (again, this sound like a partnership). An atheist isn't a child of GOD. The simple fact is that Christians should not even date non-believers (see II CORINTHIANS 6:14-18) This doesn't preclude a witnessing friendship with non-believer. I'd imagine that the non-Christian who was uninterested would soon depart.

A person who becomes a Christian after marriage must place their full trust in GOD. This is how people grow in faith. They begin to see GOD doing the impossible. If the atheistic husband doesn't want his wife to go to church, then the wife should study and pray at home. The Christain answers to a higher authority. GOD will provide the opportuities to witness to Children. They will most likely see a difference in between the actions of the faithful Christian and the infidel.

You may wish to read LUKE 1:68-71, II Peter 1:19-21, II Samuel 23:1-2, Acts 3:17-18, Revelations 1:10-19.

****Mod Post****

Please stop using caps. Rex mentioned to you that caps is a symbol of yelling. Also, it follows that it is disrespectful to put God in all caps. Biblically, God's voice is a small quiet voice. That voice will be lost in the yelling.

 

[sankazhria16]

A help meet hardly sounds subservient but rather a partnership. Now if you were a "Christian" then you should not marry an atheist. This is Scriptural. You are not to be unequally yoked (again, this sound like a partnership). An atheist isn't a child of GOD. The simple fact is that Christians should not even date non-believers (see II CORINTHIANS 6:14-18) This doesn't preclude a witnessing friendship with non-believer. I'd imagine that the non-Christian who was uninterested would soon depart.

Are you kiddng me? Marriage is based on love and love alone. Furthermore, according to Christianity the entire universe is God's creation, and all of humankind are Her children(not saying God has a gender, but it sure as heck ain't male either). In the same way that you are still your parents' children despite your current relationship, whether you disagree on things, etc., and your parents love you unconditionally - no matter what you do. You cannot become no longer your parents' child. In the same way all humans are God's children, and cannot cease to be so. She may wish that all of us would believe in Her and follow her commandments and teachings, but no matter what we do She still loves us and we are still Her children.

This is the epitome of religious intolerance.

 

[Pah]

I should apologize for using caps because it was intentional. It seems that my valid points are being made and ignored. I purposely tried to wake up those that do so.

-pah-

 

[LittleNipper]

Are you kiddng me? Marriage is based on love and love alone. Furthermore, according to Christianity the entire universe is God's creation, and all of humankind are Her children(not saying God has a gender, but it sure as heck ain't male either). In the same way that you are still your parents' children despite your current relationship, whether you disagree on things, etc., and your parents love you unconditionally - no matter what you do. You cannot become no longer your parents' child. In the same way all humans are God's children, and cannot cease to be so. She may wish that all of us would believe in Her and follow her commandments and teachings, but no matter what we do She still loves us and we are still Her children.

This is the epitome of religious intolerance.

Well, I guess Jesus was intolerant----John 8:42-45
Jesus said unto them,If GOD were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from GOD; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth , ye believe me not.

 

[LittleNipper]

****Mod Post****

Please stop using caps. Rex mentioned to you that caps is a symbol of yelling. Also, it follows that it is disrespectful to put God in all caps. Biblically, God's voice is a small quiet voice. That voice will be lost in the yelling.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPS!
there is nothing wrong with caps! Grow up and don't be such a baby!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ardhanariswar]

"Well, I guess Jesus was intolerant"


you guess? um, okay, jesus said people are dumb because they dont follow him, the truth, yet he ate with sinners. this obviously cannot be true, the gospels must have made an error. as for you, you are trying to be christian. but your mind says otherwise.

"THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPS!
there is nothing wrong with caps! Grow up and don't be such a baby!!!!!!!!! "

first and foremost. if you are going to debate, please mature a little. we respect each other here. i dont know how you do it in your home.

 

[sankazhria16]

Well, I guess Jesus was intolerant----John 8:42-45
Jesus said unto them,If GOD were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from GOD; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth , ye believe me not.

So you're saying that Christians are God's children and all those of other religions or of no religion are spawn of the devil?

There are many such passages in the Bible, none of which should be taken literally. When people do so, other people start dying.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

first and foremost. if you are going to debate, please mature a little. we respect each other here. i dont know how you do it in your home.

Annnnd Gerani gets my vote for 'best insight and comment' for the day. Well and kindly put. Respect is an integral factor here.

 

[LittleNipper]

"Well, I guess Jesus was intolerant"


you guess? um, okay, jesus said people are dumb because they dont follow him, the truth, yet he ate with sinners. this obviously cannot be true, the gospels must have made an error. as for you, you are trying to be christian. but your mind says otherwise.

"THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPS!
there is nothing wrong with caps! Grow up and don't be such a baby!!!!!!!!! "

first and foremost. if you are going to debate, please mature a little. we respect each other here. i dont know how you do it in your home.

Yes, and I'll sit and talk with anyone. Perhaps you should swallow some of your own advice... If you like I'll use color instead of capitals to highlight key words. Capitals never bothered me, but then I'm not very mature.

 

[LittleNipper]

So you're saying that Christians are God's children and all those of other religions or of no religion are spawn of the devil?

There are many such passages in the Bible, none of which should be taken literally. When people do so, other people start dying.

Would GOD send his children to hell? Only when you place your trust in Jesus Christ does one become an adopted child of God.
The Bible should be understood in light of itself and not on "post modern" human
opinion or logic------no matter how well intended.