Celebrating Chrismas and other Holidays

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Just to say, i don't want to start a huge rift or something, i'd just like to know what you think.
Do you think that it's ok for Christians to take part in holidays/celebrations/events that have 'unchristian' or 'pagan' origins? (even if it's fun)

I know that a lot of things have 'pagan' origins, but many do not have the religious links they may have had. However, if they still hold strong religious connections with 'nonchristian' origins, is it ok to take part, as a christian, bearing in mind what the god of the bible says about mixing with other religions?
I'm thinking of perhaps, Christmas. It's quite well known that the things involved with christmas have nothing to do with christ. Ie, the tree, gift giving, the date, the lights and candles, and it goes on...how do you feel?

 

[capthowdy]

Why wouldn't it be ok, the early christians coverted or killed those pagans often adpating their holidays to their own for forced conversion....I say it's ok, if your a christian it's your birthright.

 

[Mister Emu]

the tree

Here are two Christian beginnings of the Christman tree.

There have also been many legends surrounding the lore of the Christmas tree. In one story Saint Boniface, an English monk, came upon a group of pagans who had gathered around an oak tree and were preparing to sacrifice a child. To stop the sacrifice and save the child, the Saint flattened the oak tree with one blow of his fist. A small fir sprang up in its place, which Saint Boniface told the pagans was the Tree of Life and represented the life of Christ.

Another legend tells of Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant religion, walking through the woods late one night. As it was clear, many stars were shining through the branches of the trees giving the impression of twinkling lights. Luther was so inspired by the beauty of the sight that he cut down a small evergreen and brought it home. He recreated the stars by putting candles on the tree's branches.

from http://www.holidays.net/christmas/tree.htm

gift giving,

Putting aside the gift giving of the magi.

Much of Europe still observes December 5, St. Nicholas Eve, and December 6, Saint Nicholas's feast day and the supposed day of his death, as special holidays. For example, in Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, and Belgium, men in bishops' robes pose as Saint Nicholas. They visit children, examine them on their prayers, urge them to be good, and give them gifts. This custom probably originated in the legend that Saint Nicholas gave gold to each of three girls who did not have dowries and so could not get married.
Saint Nicholas evolved into Father Christmas in Germany and Protestant northern Europe. Dutch immigrants brought the tradition of "the visit of Saint Nicholas" to America. The Dutch settlers and their English neighbors transformed Nicholas into the kind and jolly patron of American Christmas. The name Santa Claus comes from Sinterklaas, which is Dutch for Saint Nicholas.

from http://www.aolsvc.worldbook.aol.com/wb/Article?id=ar390700&sc=-1

the date

This one I will give you, as it was chosen to ease Pagans who converted into the Christian faith.

 

[jeffrey]

Christmas is what you want it to be. To me, It's the the day I and my family celebrate the birth of Christ. I've had people try and tell me it was originally a Pagan Holiday, which my reply is "So? What's your point?" It makes no difference what someone else wants it to be, but what it is to that person. It's just another day in the year, but It's also the day that I and my family Choose To Celebrate The Birth Of Christ. If someone told you that the day of your child's birthday was also a pagan or some other evil day celebrated by someone long ago, would you stop celebrating your child's birthday?

 

[may]

Is it pleasing to God to fuse his worship with the religious beliefs and practices of those who do not worship him? The apostle Paul warned at Colossians 2:8: "Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ."


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In harmony with the Scriptures,i find its best to strive to practice the form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of my God, by keeping myself without spot from the world."—James 1:27

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[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Thanks for the quick reply and the research Mr Emu. I have read other theories on the history of the tree and the gift giving mind you. anyway, there are other celebrations too, such as easter, with it's bunny and the eggs. i'm not questioning one in particular, just celebrations or holidays in general.

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Christmas is what you want it to be. To me, It's the the day I and my family celebrate the birth of Christ. I've had people try and tell me it was originally a Pagan Holiday, which my reply is "So? What's your point?" It makes no difference what someone else wants it to be, but what it is to that person. It's just another day in the year, but It's also the day that I and my family Choose To Celebrate The Birth Of Christ. If someone told you that the day of your child's birthday was also a pagan or some other evil day celebrated by someone long ago, would you stop celebrating your child's birthday?

I can think of a biblical example where people said that it was in honor of God, but they were still condemned for idol worship. it's the account of the isrealites with golden calf when moses was away with the 10 commandments. they said it was a festival to Jehovah or YHVH or the Lord, but they were still punished...

 

[James the Persian]

Thanks for the quick reply and the research Mr Emu. I have read other theories on the history of the tree and the gift giving mind you. anyway, there are other celebrations too, such as easter, with it's bunny and the eggs. i'm not questioning one in particular, just celebrations or holidays in general.

I don't know where the bunny comes from (and it's a purely western thing anyway) but red-painted eggs as used in Orthodox Easter celebrations are supposed to have come from St. Mary Magdalene. The egg is a symbol of new life and cracking them against each other is symbolic of opening the tomb. Obviously this is part of Holy Tradition, not scripture, but this is what one Orthodox website says about it:

At the conclusion of the service, everyone present receives a red egg. Eggs are a symbol of rebirth and new life. The red eggs of Pascha are a reminder of the blood of the risen Lord. At the end of our Resurrection Service, red eggs are blessed by the priest and distributed to all. Before eating the eggs, people tap their eggs against one another's as they say "Christ is Risen! Truly He is Risen!" Cracking the egg represents breaking the seal of Christ's tomb. We are reminded of new life, or that the cracking of eggs symbolizes the shattering of Hades by the victorious Christ. According to custom, the person who cracks the other's egg first will have the blessing.

St. Mary Magdalene, who is often depicted in icons holding a red egg, may have been aware that the Romans would know the meaning of the egg as something that brings forth life from a sealed chamber.
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After Christ was crucified and rose up to Heaven, Mary Magdalene was in Rome. When she met with the Roman Emperor Tiberius, she gave him a red colored egg and announced "Christ is Risen!"​

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James​

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't know where the bunny comes from (and it's a purely western thing anyway) but red-painted eggs as used in Orthodox Easter celebrations are supposed to have come from St. Mary Magdalene. The egg is a symbol of new life and cracking them against each other is symbolic of opening the tomb. Obviously this is part of Holy Tradition, not scripture, but this is what one Orthodox website says about it:

[/left]

James​

I know we seem to be getting a little off thread But I am gettig real intrested in St. mary Magdaelen. Can our orthodox friends Point me in the right direction .

Thanks Terry

 

[jeffrey]

I can think of a biblical example where people said that it was in honor of God, but they were still condemned for idol worship. it's the account of the isrealites with golden calf when moses was away with the 10 commandments. they said it was a festival to Jehovah or YHVH or the Lord, but they were still punished...

The tree you are not worshiping. Lol. You are worshiping God and Jesus. The gifts you give to others because you cannot give a physical gift to God. In what you quoted, read it all God was upset because they took to worshiping an idol when whe though Moses had deserted them. And like I said, It's What's in your heart that counts. Worshiping idols is not having God in your heart.

 

[James the Persian]

I know we seem to be getting a little off thread But I am gettig real intrested in St. mary Magdaelen. Can our orthodox friends Point me in the right direction .

Thanks Terry

What is it exactly that you're interested in re. St. Mary Magdalene? If it's just the red egg tradition, I think I've covered that above. Otherwise, I think we're generally pretty close to the RC view except that we have never considered that she was a prostitute (so one of Dan Brown's beloved fallacies falls flat on its face!) considering her as a different person to the 'sinful woman' of Scripture. Actually, the conflation of the two figures didn't happen, even in the west, until the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great. If you have any specific questions let me know and I'll do my best to answer, either in a new thread or a PM, otherwise we're likely to send this thread totally off-topic.

I hope everyone forgives me for the aside - this will be an end to my posting on St. Mary Magdalene in this thread.

James

 

[jeffrey]

Is it pleasing to God to fuse his worship with the religious beliefs and practices of those who do not worship him? The apostle Paul warned at Colossians 2:8: "Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ."


​

In harmony with the Scriptures,i find its best to strive to practice the form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of my God, by keeping myself without spot from the world."--James 1:27

This quote from Paul would be better to use as an example of the commercialization of Christmas, To me, It's like you trying to tell me that because my birthday falls on Dec. 7th, that I am not celebrating my birthday, but in reality I'm celebrating Pearl Harbor. It's What's in your heart, not What's on someone else's calendar.

 

[James the Persian]

This quote from Paul would be better to use as an example of the commercialization of Christmas, To me, It's like you trying to tell me that because my birthday falls on Dec. 7th, that I am not celebrating my birthday, but in reality I'm celebrating Pearl Harbor. It's What's in your heart, not What's on someone else's calendar.

Very true. My birthday and saint's day both often fall on American Thanksgiving. I have nothing against that holiday at all - for Americans - but I can guarantee you that I've never celebrated it in my life. The feast day of St. James the Persian, though, is a different matter.

James

 

[jeffrey]

What is it exactly that you're interested in re. St. Mary Magdalene? If it's just the red egg tradition, I think I've covered that above. Otherwise, I think we're generally pretty close to the RC view except that we have never considered that she was a prostitute (so one of Dan Brown's beloved fallacies falls flat on its face!) considering her as a different person to the 'sinful woman' of Scripture. Actually, the conflation of the two figures didn't happen, even in the west, until the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great. If you have any specific questions let me know and I'll do my best to answer, either in a new thread or a PM, otherwise we're likely to send this thread totally off-topic.

I hope everyone forgives me for the aside - this will be an end to my posting on St. Mary Magdalene in this thread.

James

Very interesting! Hey, I learned something new! Thank you for sharing that.

 

[may]

The tree you are not worshiping. Lol. You are worshiping God and Jesus. The gifts you give to others because you cannot give a physical gift to God. In what you quoted, read it all God was upset because they took to worshiping an idol when whe though Moses had deserted them. And like I said, It's What's in your heart that counts. Worshiping idols is not having God in your heart.

yes but when they made the calf they said it was a festival to Jehovah they were decieving themselves, they were turning back to idol worship that they had left behind in egypt .so yes, it is what is in your heart , do we want to please God or become mixed up with pagan beliefs and hurt Gods feelings. oh well each to their own i feel that we can give a gift to God by staying free from false beliefs and this will please my God
Jehovah did not accept the Israelites’ attempt to worship him on their own terms. Rather, 3,000 were destroyed, probably for the prominent role they played in the rebellious action of worshiping the golden calf. Other wrongdoers suffered a plague from Jehovah. (Exodus 32:28, 35) What a lesson for any who read God’s Word but choose for themselves what they want to obey. most of the celebrations have their roots in some form of false worship

 

[jeffrey]

May, I believe they where worshiping baal. Not God. And like I will repeat again, It's What's in your heart that counts.

 

[jeffrey]

Very true. My birthday and saint's day both often fall on American Thanksgiving. I have nothing against that holiday at all - for Americans - but I can guarantee you that I've never celebrated it in my life. The feast day of St. James the Persian, though, is a different matter.

James

I used Dec 7th because It's the 1st day I could think of that something bad happened. Mine actually sometimes falls on Thanksgiving Also. Nov. 23rd.

 

[michel]

I agree with Mr Emu;

Father Christmas
Also known as: St. Nicholas; Kris Kringle; Father Christmas
Santa Claus is the mythical figure who delivers toys to children around the world on Christmas Eve. According to legend Santa lives at the North Pole, oversees a toy workshop run by busy elves, and flies around the world in a sled pulled by eight reindeer: Blitzen, Comet, Cupid, Dancer, Dasher, Donder, Prancer, and Vixen. (A ninth reindeer with a shiny nose, Rudolph, was introduced in Gene Autry's 1949 country music hit "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.") The name Santa Claus was derived from Sinterklaas, the Dutch term for the ancient Christian figure of Saint Nicholas.

Extra credit: The Santa Claus myth was popularized in America by the 1823 poem "A Visit From Saint Nicholas," attributed to Clement Moore. The poem begins "Twas the night before Christmas"... An 1897 editorial by Frank P. Church in the New York Sun coined the famous phrase "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus." Church was replying to a letter from a young reader, Virginia O'Hanlon, who asked if Santa Claus really existed... According to Microsoft's Encarta, the nickname Kris Kringle evolved from the German words for Christ child, Christkindl.

http://who2.com/jeeves/santaclaus.html

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

May, I believe they where worshiping baal. Not God. And like I will repeat again, It's What's in your heart that counts.

yes, but acording to God's way of thinking, your heart may be wrong. many people think they shoud follow their heart and then stuff happens. take king david and bathsheba...many more too.

 

[jeffrey]

yes, bu t acording to God's way of thinking, your heart maybe wrong. many people think they shoud follow their heart and then stuff happens. take king david and bathsheba...many more too.

King David was not celebrating a holiday. He slept with another man's wife, got her pregnant then had her hubby killed. His was thinking with his you know what and not his heart. Big difference. When I say heart, I mean our love for God, not the love for material things. Or the love I have for my wife. But the love that is mentioned in 1st Corinthians, Chapter 13.