Chaitanya Mahaprabhu... incarnation of Krishna?

[4M17]

svarnadi-tiram asthaya
navadvipe janashraye
tatra dvi ja-kulam prapto
bhavishyami janalaye

"I will take birth in a brahmana family in the city of Navadwipa, by the Ganges shore."

bhakti-yoga-pradanaya
lokasyanugrahaya ca
sannyasa-rupam asthaya
krishna-chaitanya-nama-dhrik

"In order to show mercy to the people and engage them in devotional service, I will accept sannyasa. Then My name will be Sri Krishna Chaitanya."

In the Ananta Samhita we find:

svarnadi-tiram ashritya
navadvipe dvijalaye
sampradatum bhakti-yogam
laksyanugrahaya ca

"To show mercy to the people and give them devotional service, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in a brahmana's home in Navadwipa by the Gange's shore."

Then the Lord states:

avatirno bhavishyami
kalau nija-ganaih saha
shaci-garbhe navadvipe
svardhuni-parivarite

"In Kali-yuga I will descend to the earth with My associates. In Navadvipa, which is surrounded by the Ganges, I will take birth in Shachi-devi's womb."

In the Urdhvamnaya Tantra it is mentioned:

kalau purandarat shacyam
gaura-rupo vibhu smritah

"In Kali-yuga I will appear in a golden form as the son of Purandara and Shachi-devi."

In the Krishna-yamala it is stated:

aham purno bhavishyami
yuga-sandhau visheshatah
mayapure navadvipe
varam ekam shaci-sutah

"During the first sandhya of Kali-yuga I will descend, with all My powers and glories, to Mayapura in Navadwipa and become the son of Shachi-devi."

In the Brahma-yamala:

athavaham dhara-dhamni
bhutva mad-bhakta-rupa-dhrik
mayayam ca bhavishyami
kalau sankirtanagame

"I will appear on the earth in the garb of My Devotee. In the Kali-yuga I will appear in Mayapura to start the sankirtana movement."



kalau prathama-sandhyayam
hari-nama-pradayakah
bhavishyati navadvipe
shaci-garbhe janardanah

"In the first sandhya of Kali-yuga, Lord Krishna will appear in Navadwipa, in Shachi-devi's womb. In that incarnation He will teach the chanting of Lord Hari's Holy Names."

In the Ananta Samhita we find:

gauri shri-radhika devi
harih krishna prakirtitah
ekatvac ca tayoh sakshad
iti gaura-harim viduh

"The golden Goddess Radha is known by the name Gauri and the dark Lord Krishna is known by the name Hari. Aware that both of them have combined, the wise call Him as Gaurahari."

navadvipe tu tah sakhyo
bhakta-rupa-dharah priye
ekangam shri-gaura-harim
sevante satatam muda

"The golden Goddess Radha is known by the name Gauri and the dark Lord Krishna is known by the name Hari. Aware that both of them have combined, the wise call Him as Gaurahari." (In the image: in the middle Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya, in His right Sri Krishna and in His left Srimati Radharani).

"O beloved, assuming the forms of Devotees the Gopis will also take birth in Navadwipa. With great happiness they will again and again serve Lord Gaurahari, who is Radha and Krishna combined in a single form."

In the Krishna-yamala we further find:

iti matva kripa-sindhur
amshena kripaya harih
prasanno bhakta-rupena
kalav avatarishyati

"Thinking in this way, Lord Krishna, who is an ocean of mercy, mercifully decided to appear as a Devotee in Kali-yuga."

gaurango nada-gambhirah
sva-namamrita-lalasah
dayaluh kirtana-grahi
bhavishyati shaci-sutah

"His limbs will be golden and His voice deep. He will be very merciful. He will yearn to taste the nectar of His own Holy Name. He will be attached to chanting His own Holy Name. He will be the son of Shachi-devi."

In the Jaimini-bharata it is said:

anyavatara bahavah
sarve sadharana matah
kalau krishnavataras tu
gudhah sannyasa-vesha-dhrik

"Lord Krishna descends to the world in many different forms. However in Kali-yuga, His incarnation is hidden. At that time He appears disguised as a sannyasi."

In the Yoga-vashishtha we find:

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam
gaurango 'sau mahi-tale
bhagirathi-tate ramye
bhavishyati sanatanah

"In the first sandhya of Kali-yuga, on the earth, by the beautiful shore of the Ganges, the Lord will appear in His eternal golden form."

In the Skanda Purana:

antah krishna bahir gaurah
sangopangastra-parshadah
shaci-garbhe samapnuyam
maya-manusha-karma-krit

"Outwardly of golden complexion, but inwardly Krishna, I will take My birth in the womb of Shachi-devi. Accompanied by My associates, servants, weapons, and confidential companions, I will assume the role of a human being."

In the Kapila Tantra we find the following statements:

kvacit sapi krishnam aha
shrinu mad-vacanam priya
bhavata ca sahaikatmyam
icchami bhavitum prabho

mama bhavanvitam rupam
hridayahlada-karanam
parasparanga-madhya-stham
krida-kautuka-mangalam

paraspara-svabhavadhyam
rupam ekam pradarshaya
shrutva tu preyasi-vakyam
parama-priti-suchakam

svecchayasid yatha purvam
utsahena jagad-guruh
premalingana-yogena
hy acintya-shakti-yogatah

radha-bhava-kanti-yuktam
murtim ekam prakasayan
svapne tu darshayam asa
radhikayai svayam prabhuh

"Then Sri Radha said to Lord Krishna: O beloved, please hear My words. I yearn to become one with you. Please show a form where You and I embrace and Our two bodies become one, a form filled with the love I bear for You, a form filled with auspicious and blissful pastimes, a form that brings bliss to the heart, a form that unites Our two natures.'

"Hearing His beloved's words, which were filled with joy and love, Lord Krishna passionately embraced Her. Then by the touch of His inconceivable potency Their two forms joined and became one, a single form endowed with Sri Radha's divine love and glorious splendour. In a dream Lord Krishna showed all this to Sri Radha."

Other direct references are found in the Vishvasara Tantra, Kularnava Tantra, Brahma-rahasya, and Vishnu-yamala. Besides these there are complete chapters about Sri Chaitanya's incarnation in the Vayu Purana and Bhavishya Purana, which are too long to quote here. Also there is a text by the name Chaitanya Upanishad within the Atharva Veda, which explains the Lord's incarnation in Kali-yuga. I have not cited it here, as it was rediscovered in recent times, so most people will reject it's authenticity, or at least its value as evidence.

Sri Chaitanya's incarnation was a hidden incarnation, thus He burried references to His appearance deep within the ocean of vedic texts. His desire was that His disguise would not be betrayed, so He made sure these references would remain hidden until after His incarnation was complete. These text's were always present, but by the inconceivable yoga-maya of the Lord, He covered His true identity even from the Vedic scholars and panditas. Only the pure devotees understood His actual identity.

In the Ananta Samhita we find this very relevant statement regarding Sri Chaitanya's incarnation:


aprakashyam idam guhyam
na prakashyam bahir mukhe
bhaktavataram bhaktakhyam
bhaktam bhakti-pradam svayam

man-maya-mohitah kecin
na jnasyanti bahir-mukhah
jnasyanti mad-bhakti-yuktah
sadhavo nyasino 'malah

"Those who are bewildered by My illusory potency will not understand the great secret of My appearance in this world in My personal form, in My form as the incarnation of a Devotee, in My form bearing the name of a Devotee, in My form as a Devotee, and in My form as the giver of devotional service. This secret is not to be revealed to them. Only the saintly, pure, renounced Devotees, diligently engaged in My devotional service, will be able to understand Me in these forms."

 

[4M17]

Without supporting any cult or sect..the Vedic proof of Chaitanya are as per my posts
Indeed from Vedic perspective Chaintanya mahaprabhu is Krishna...no doubt about tht..
So we cannot deny or criticise his authority

 

[Aupmanyav]

Every thing is Krishna only. There is nothing else in the universe..

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Amit Ji

Without supporting any cult or sect..the Vedic proof of Chaitanya are as per my posts
Indeed from Vedic perspective Chaintanya mahaprabhu is Krishna...no doubt about tht..
So we cannot deny or criticise his authority

Jai Jai , ....Welcome , ....

 

[Terese]

Pranam @4M17 ji, Welcome to the Hinduism DIR, lovely to see another Vaisnava here

 

[4M17]

Thank you my pranam and obeisences to all vaishnavas

 

[निताइ dasa]

Thank you my pranam and obeisences to all vaishnavas

Jaya Nitai! Welcome with open arms!

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Every thing is Krishna only. There is nothing else in the universe..

I have some time today.

1. if everything is Krishna, then who is Aup?
2. If Aup is none other than Krishna, is it a correct statement to say "everything is Aup; there is nothing else"?
3. If the statement in #2 is incorrect, then Aup is not really Krishna. But since only Krishna exists, Aup does not exist at all - which is a logical fallacy as we do have an Aup.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aup too is Krishna, since there is no other.
Yes.
Give it any name, Aup, Krishna, Shiva, Brownie the cow, Blacky the dog.
".. vāchārambhanam vikāro nāma-dheyam, mrttiketi eva satyam."
(.. the different names given to forms are but distortions, it is clay, that, verily, is the truth.)
(Ayamātmā Brahman, So'ham, Shvio'ham, Aham Brhmāsmi, Tat twam asi, Eko sad dwitīyo nāsti, Brahma veda Brahaiva bhavati, Brahma satyam jagan-mithyā ..)
After-all, I am an strong 'advaitist'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nope! He was avatar of Lord Vishnu. He was surely not of Lord Shiva. Because he had a Darshana of Bhagavan Shiva. There's a promise of Vishnu that whenever great adharma arises he incarnates.

Then why is he not mentioned among the Dashavataras or in SrimadBhagawat Purana?

Otherwise it'd become Avatar like Buddha. Buddha was also Vishnu but he taught vedic teachings in the way atheists misunderstand it.

I do not think this view is shared by all Hindus.

He then became a devotee of Caitanya. Make of it what you will.

Nice story. Don't you think it is a bit hegemonic? Like currently it is Shirdi vala becoming all, Rama, Krishna, Shiva and what not. Blasphemy.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In the Atharva Veda (Purusha-bodini Upanishad) it is said:
saptame .. shikshayati
itotham .. syam

Purusha-Bodhini Upanishad! Is there a Stree-Bodhini Upanishad too?

So we cannot deny or criticise his authority

We here, means people from Gaudiya mata.

Thank you my pranam and obeisences to all vaishnavas

And not to others? That is not very vaishnava.

 

[4M17]

Purusha-Bodhini Upanishad! Is there a Stree-Bodhini Upanishad too? We here, means people from Gaudiya mata.And not to others? That is not very vaishnava.

I'm sorry Aup...my mistake...my pranam & obeisances to everyone...

 

[Aupmanyav]

When I think of 'durjanas' (evil persons), I think of how Goswami Tulsidas prayed to them in his Ramacharit Manas. I do not know if you can read Hindi or not, but I give the link to those verses and transliterate and translate the first of them. Goswami Tulsidas was a true Vaishnava.

"Khal Vandana":

बहुरि बंदि खल गन सतिभाएँ। जे बिनु काज दाहिनेहु बाएँ॥
पर हित हानि लाभ जिन्ह केरें। उजरें हरष बिषाद बसेरें॥1॥

भावार्थ:-अब मैं सच्चे भाव से दुष्टों को प्रणाम करता हूँ, जो बिना ही प्रयोजन, अपना हित करने वाले के भी प्रतिकूल आचरण करते हैं। दूसरों के हित की हानि ही जिनकी दृष्टि में लाभ है, जिनको दूसरों के उजड़ने में हर्ष और बसने में विषाद होता है॥1॥

Bahuri bandi khal gan satibhāyen, je binu kāj dahinehu bāyen l
Para hit hāni lābha jinh keren, ujaren harasha vishāda baseren ll

I earnestly bow to the evil persons, who without any reason act against those who want to benefit them. Who consider the loss to others as their benefit, and those who delight in loss of others and feel sorrow when others are happy.

http://hindi.webdunia.com/religion/religion/hindu/ramcharitmanas/BalKand/4.htm

 

[Cassandra]

When I think of 'durjanas' (evil persons), I think of how Goswami Tulsidas prayed to them in his Ramacharit Manas. I do not know if you can read Hindi or not, but I give the link to those verses and transliterate and translate the first of them. Goswami Tulsidas was a true Vaishnava.

"Khal Vandana":

बहुरि बंदि खल गन सतिभाएँ। जे बिनु काज दाहिनेहु बाएँ॥
पर हित हानि लाभ जिन्ह केरें। उजरें हरष बिषाद बसेरें॥1॥

भावार्थ:-अब मैं सच्चे भाव से दुष्टों को प्रणाम करता हूँ, जो बिना ही प्रयोजन, अपना हित करने वाले के भी प्रतिकूल आचरण करते हैं। दूसरों के हित की हानि ही जिनकी दृष्टि में लाभ है, जिनको दूसरों के उजड़ने में हर्ष और बसने में विषाद होता है॥1॥

Bahuri bandi khal gan satibhāyen, je binu kāj dahinehu bāyen l
Para hit hāni lābha jinh keren, ujaren harasha vishāda baseren ll

I earnestly bow to the evil persons, who without any reason act against those who want to benefit them. Who consider the loss to others as their benefit, and those who delight in loss of others and feel sorrow when others are happy.

http://hindi.webdunia.com/religion/religion/hindu/ramcharitmanas/BalKand/4.htm

Words are rarely read with the same understanding they were written.
What does this mean to you?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Words are rarely read with the same understanding they were written.
What does this mean to you?

"I earnestly bow to the evil persons, who without any reason act against those who want to benefit them. Who consider the loss to others as their benefit, and those who delight in loss of others and feel sorrow when others are happy."

Cassandra, what Saint Tulsidas wrote was sarcastic comment but with love on people engaged in evil deeds and an advice to them to change their ways. There are 7 verses in one form (Chaupai) and one in another form (Doha), sort of four-legged and two legged. The saintly people want the evil to act good because the good deeds will benefit the evil people, but the evil person's consider good people as their enemies. Tulsidas is pointing that the loss for other people does not mean benefit to evil people and why should the evil people be happy when the good people suffer. This train of thought is continued in the whole section.

When I first read it, I was hugely surprised, a saint bowing to evil people, but later on I got the drift of Talsidas' meaning. I will translate (roughly only) all the rest of seven verses/doha for your enjoyment.

There is a famous story in India in which a saint is bitten by a scorpion. The saint lets the scorpion go. When another person asked the saint as to why he did not kill the scorpion, the saint said that what the scorpion did was according to his nature and what he himself did was according to his own nature. Why the bite should make him change his nature? So, a saint wishes the welfare of all, of a good person as well as that of an evil person.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@Cassandra
Translation - 'Khal Vandana' (Describing the ways of evil persons): Tulsidas’ poetry is very rich/heavy in examples and imagery. No verse is without them.

Verse 2: They do not like the mention of Lord Vishnu or Lord Shiva like Rahu (the ascendant node of moon) does not like Full moon. They are very adapt at blaming others just like King Sahastrabahu was very adapt in war (Sahatrabahu was a very powerful king. He was once bathing and praying to God in a river when Ravana disturbed him. Sahastrabahu kept Ravana quiet in his armpit for the duration of his prayer). They see the fault of others with thousand eyes and they hate the benefit of other like clarified butter in which a fly has fallen.

Verse 3: They are as fierce and angry as the Lord of Death, Yama, when he tortures people in hell. They are as rich as the divine treasurer, Kuber, in sins and bad habits. Whose profit is the destruction caused by a meteor, and they are better asleep like Ravana’s brother, Kumbhakarna (because if they are awake then they would only cause harm to others, Kumbhakarna was supposed to sleep six month’s at a stretch).

Verse 4: Like a harvest is destroyed by hailstorm, they would not mind a loss to themselves if it can harm others. I bow to the evil people considering them to be Sheshanaga (the thousand hooded King of serpents on which Lord Vishnu is supposed to rest) because they will describe the fault of others with thousand mouths.

Verse 5: I bow to the evil people considering them like King Prithu (Lord Rama’s ancestor who asked for ten thousand ears to hear the praise of God). The evil people hear the sins of others with ten thousand ears. Then, I bow to them considering them to be like the King of Gods, Indra who likes liquor and considers it beneficial (Lord Indra is supposed to be a heavy drinker of Soma).

Verse 6: Those who like words as harsh as ‘vajra’ (Lord Indra’s weapon), and those who see the faults of other people with thousand eyes.

Doha: It is a pattern with evil people that they envy the good of all people whether a friend, a neutral person or an enemy. Knowing this I request them with folded hands nd love.

Verse 7: I have requested from my side, but they will hardly ever stop. Even if you keep crows as pet, they will never abandon eating flesh.

 

[Cassandra]

Aupmanyav,

Thank you very much for your insightful post and kind translation. Tulsidas tells us about the true nature of the evil.

Now about the story of the scorpion:

When another person asked the saint as to why he did not kill the scorpion, the saint said that what the scorpion did was according to his nature and what he himself did was according to his own nature. Why the bite should make him change his nature

Now let us suppose the man that was stung had neither the nature of scorpion nor of a sage but something in between.

On occassion he may kill the scorpion in return of stinging him. When asked why he does that he says: My nature is to react according to the circumstances, today I feel very negative and this provocation was too much to bare. That is why I freed this miserable creature from his miserable life.

On another occasion he may not kill the scorpion. When asked about it he will say: I feel well and wish the scorpion to remain well as well. He may have stung me but he is not going to ruin my day. For the nature of beings is to act according their nature, and that is what I do.

What would Tulsidas likely say about this?

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is why I freed this miserable creature from his miserable life. .. On another occasion he may not kill the scorpion. When asked about it he will say: I feel well and wish the scorpion to remain well as well. He may have stung me but he is not going to ruin my day. For the nature of beings is to act according their nature, and that is what I do. What would Tulsidās likely say about this?

Why do you think that the life of a scorpion is miserable or that of a cockroach or a fly? They have their own life as we have ours. Sages Tulsidās and Kabīr both would say that good people will always think of benefit to others without considering whether that human or animal has good or bad qualities. Like a tree which gives shade to all and a spring that quenches the thirst of all. I do not remember any particular verse by these two most important religious personalities in Hinduism (Kabīr was an orphan raised by a Muslim weaver). Perhaps some other member will have something to write about this. However, I chanced upon a beautiful verse by Sage Kabīr which I give blow:

"Kabira Man Nirmal Bhayā, Jaise Gangā Nīr, Pāche Pāche Har Phire, Kahat Kabīr Kabīr."

Kabīr has washed his heart clean, like the water of River Ganges. Now God follows him, saying Kabīr! Kabīr!

 

[Cassandra]

Why do you think that the life of a scorpion is miserable or that of a cockroach or a fly? They have their own life as we have ours. Sages Tulsidās and Kabīr both would say that good people will always think of benefit to others without considering whether that human or animal has good or bad qualities. Like a tree which gives shade to all and a spring that quenches the thirst of all. I do not remember any particular verse by these two most important religious personalities in Hinduism (Kabīr was an orphan raised by a Muslim weaver). Perhaps some other member will have something to write about this. However, I chanced upon a beautiful verse by Sage Kabīr which I give blow:

"Kabira Man Nirmal Bhayā, Jaise Gangā Nīr, Pāche Pāche Har Phire, Kahat Kabīr Kabīr."

Kabīr has washed his heart clean, like the water of River Ganges. Now God follows him, saying Kabīr! Kabīr!

Forgive me Aupmanyav, I did not mean to criticize that. I am sure Sage Tulsidās would say that, because it is indeed true what he says about good and evil people, but I think there is something more essential to it. It is not about being good for goodness sake and a wise man is not being wise for wisdoms sake, anymore than a scorpion is being a scorpion for scorpions sake. And I am sure Sage Tulsidās would dread the idea of being born as a scorpion, or a cockroach or a fly. I do not think one could convince him otherwise.

As I see it, there are many people that want to be wise, but a wise man does not want to be wise. It is the foolish that want to be wise. Like it is the foolish that want to be King. They want to be wise to exercise wisdom and good to exercise goodness and King to exercise power. They want to play a role for the roles sake. So they study the roles they admire and then try to play them earnestly. They are followers, following in the footsteps of their examples. If they remain humble they are good people, otherwise they will lead many others into folly.

I personally think we should not confuse Sage Tulsidās with Kabir. Kabir was no Sage and indeed a fool and thus acted like a fool completely ignorant of his own foolishness. There have been many of such people some with enormous following. It is an interesting phenomenon.

But then of course I tell you nothing new as your caption says: "Janani Janmabhoomishcha, swargadapi gariyasi" (Mother and Motherland are more important than attaining heaven) - Lord Rama in Valmiki Ramayana.

 

[ShivaFan]

Even if you do not believe Caitanya is literally the incarnation of Krishna, yet he had such a huge historical impact with his non-cooperation campaign and taking to the streets in violation of the law to chant and proclaim the names of Krishna, Rama, Radha, Jaganatha and so many joined in the Harinam and Sankirtana, really he made Krishna Bhakti shine like a bright light over Bengal and Oriya and beyond, this light became a living light and the very Spirit of Radha and Krishna, who would not say he was that Light itself as so much did suddenly Krishna in spirit was there and a revival?

In fact, even if you do not believe Krishna even existed, in the morning or the evening or the night when Caitanya called for Krishna, the spirit of Krishna indeed was part of evedy heart looking on and joining him. It even moved about like the fragrance of Champaka.