Challenge: Describe what the Left-Hand Path is in Colloquial Language!

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Hello All,

I am in no sense an expert, only an interested individual. I've read "Lords of the Left Hand Path", "Demons of the Flesh", "Uncle Setnakt's Essential Guide to the Left Hand Path", "Mysteries of the Temple of Set", All of LaVey's books, A bunch of other works by Stephen Flowers, I've read Michael Aquino's Black Magic, I've watched all of Jason King's youtube videos as well as Michael W. Ford's. I also read "The Left Hand Path" by Tapio Kotkavuori and "Postmodern Satanism" by Jason King. I have a good sense of what it is, but there's a lot of different views and emphasises etcetera depending on who your reading. Also, it is often complicated/obscured by mystical talk, mysticism, symbolism, mythologies, and jargon. What I would like to discuss is the left hand path in colloquial language. Let's demystify the left hand path. Who's up to that challenge? I would love to hear what people have to say about this topic.

People like to broaden and make nebulous this term to allow for almost anything to be shoehorned in there(especially on the internet) but its actually as simple as simple gets, one only need look to the source(no not THAT source, look back a few more thousand years).

The left hand path(left handed attainment) is the dispelation of duality through approaching 'nastika'(or more colloquialy, doing things that scare you, revulse you, or defy your 'morality' so you can see the whole picture in a given context)

No right, no wrong, just totality.

 

[Adramelek]

"...subjective universe (individual perception of the manifest, and the non-manifest or the yet to be manifest)..."
Would it be accurate to call this the imagination?

Yes, the imagination is purely subjective. The SU is also how we perceive the OU, for instance snakes are often considered to be sneaky and evil when most are harmless, legless reptiles that slither instead of walk or hop and have forked tongues. Bunny rabbits are usually considered cute, purely subjective perceptions that exist only in the human mind.

The "un-manifest" or "yet to be manifest" is referring to Magic/Magick/Black Magic which originates in the mind and is made manifest into the objective universe by the Will of the Magician and becomes crystalized in the fabric of reality.

I will get to some of your other questions and comments a bit later.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Today I learned that snakes are mammals!

Oh internet...

 

[KJP665]

The "action" part is not always easily seen. For instance, the majority of my "going against the flow" occurs within my own subjective mind--breaking habits or patterns of thinking I want to break, and in cultivating new habits and patterns of thought I want to establish. Since no one else can see into my subjective mind, then that would certainly put a damper on using "effort-behavior" as an objective criteria for classification purposes. Likewise, outward objective behavior of "going against the flow" cannot be taken as evidence that the person is also putting forth the same effort within their subjective mind. (I consider confusing the subjective with the objective to be the very definition of delusion, so great care must be taken when it comes to behavior criteria, imo.)

I understand what you are saying; I've thought about it myself. Allow me to clarify my position.

In cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) there are two parts: the cognitive part (changing thinking patterns - beliefs, predictions, & interpretations) and the behavioral part (exposure). In CBT you are given strategies to challenge & ultimately change the way you think about anxiety provoking situations, then you expose yourself to those situations. So there's a thinking part (cognition) and there's a doing part (behavior). I am very aware that both parts require effort but, 'cognition' is not 'behavior.' Cognition is done subjectively, and behavior is done objectively. With regard to the left hand path, I think it's safe to say we both agree that the cognitive part is essential, the act of emancipating your mind. Then, I argue that emancipating your behavior is also essential. I'll give an example (overly simple example) to clarify my meaning.

Let's say we have a God fearing man who goes to church every Sunday. He then puts in some cognitive effort and frees his mind from such an idea - meaning he no longer believes in God; however, he still goes to church every Sunday. I say, this person in question also needs to free his behavior and stop going to church. I believe in order to be considered LHP one needs to change there mind for sure but, I also believe there needs to be a change in behavior as well. And to clarify, it's not that he's going to church that's important, it's that he's not behaving according to his self defined beliefs. What I'm saying is that you need to think for yourself but, you also need to act for yourself.

 

[gorkybjork]

Changing your thinking patterns doesn't mean you have to change your beliefs. I know there is a God. To deny that would be to commit the unpardonable sin. Accepting the inevitable outcome is the most plausible way to change a thinking pattern, in this case. Self-deception to such a degree would work if you're truly ready to sign over your will, I guess. But don't plan on ever coming back. I'm not sure what this is all about. What's the left hand path?

 

[crossfire]

I understand what you are saying; I've thought about it myself. Allow me to clarify my position.

In cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) there are two parts: the cognitive part (changing thinking patterns - beliefs, predictions, & interpretations) and the behavioral part (exposure). In CBT you are given strategies to challenge & ultimately change the way you think about anxiety provoking situations, then you expose yourself to those situations. So there's a thinking part (cognition) and there's a doing part (behavior). I am very aware that both parts require effort but, 'cognition' is not 'behavior.' Cognition is done subjectively, and behavior is done objectively. With regard to the left hand path, I think it's safe to say we both agree that the cognitive part is essential, the act of emancipating your mind. Then, I argue that emancipating your behavior is also essential. I'll give an example (overly simple example) to clarify my meaning.

Let's say we have a God fearing man who goes to church every Sunday. He then puts in some cognitive effort and frees his mind from such an idea - meaning he no longer believes in God; however, he still goes to church every Sunday. I say, this person in question also needs to free his behavior and stop going to church. I believe in order to be considered LHP one needs to change there mind for sure but, I also believe there needs to be a change in behavior as well. And to clarify, it's not that he's going to church that's important, it's that he's not behaving according to his self defined beliefs. What I'm saying is that you need to think for yourself but, you also need to act for yourself.

Why would you say he needs to stop going to church? Perhaps he has other reasons than belief in god to continue going? Why does he have to conform to your expectations?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I wouldn't presume to speak for that member, but I understood him to mean that thoughts are meaningless unless supported by action.

If that's the case then I would agree

 

[crossfire]

I wouldn't presume to speak for that member, but I understood him to mean that thoughts are meaningless unless supported by action.

If that's the case then I would agree

What do you think about thoughtless action?

 

[Adramelek]

What do you think about thoughtless action?

I think we all from time to time act without thinking first, we all make our fair share of mistakes. And we all at times might misspeak, or make an error in judgment. It happens, so what, learn from it and move on.

 

[KJP665]

I wouldn't presume to speak for that member, but I understood him to mean that thoughts are meaningless unless supported by action.

If that's the case then I would agree

Yes, that's the gist of it.

What do you think about thoughtless action?

Just as thoughts are meaningless unless supported by action, actions are meaningless unless supported by thought; although, I'm not sure if 'meaningless' is the best word to use here but, it certainly gets the point across... perhaps it is.

Thought without action = RHP
Action without thought = RHP
Thought + Action = LHP

More specifically:

Emancipated thought without emancipated action = RHP
Emancipated action without emancipated thought = RHP
Emancipated thought + emancipated action = LHP


The person who has a completely liberated mind with self determined goals and values but, lives their life according to other people's goals and values is on the right hand path.

Likewise, a wild beast whose behavior is completely unrestrained but, has never developed their own goals or values is also on the right hand path.

The person who has determined their own goals and values and who expresses and pursues those goals and values to the highest degree is the on the left hand path.

I could be wrong about all of this but, this is what makes the most sense to me as of now and so it is my position.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

What do you think about thoughtless action?

I think it is the purest form of living, pure undiluted existence in THAT EXACT MOMENT.

That Zen state when you reach a level of excellence that what you are doing seems to be happening THROUGH you rather than you 'doing' something, and you are observing yourself..is a form of thoughtless action.

Of course acting without thinking at all all of the time would lead to a very short life wouldn't it?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Yes, that's the gist of it.



Just as thoughts are meaningless unless supported by action, actions are meaningless unless supported by thought; although, I'm not sure if 'meaningless' is the best word to use here but, it certainly gets the point across... perhaps it is.

Thought without action = RHP
Action without thought = RHP
Thought + Action = LHP

More specifically:

Emancipated thought without emancipated action = RHP
Emancipated action without emancipated thought = RHP
Emancipated thought + emancipated action = LHP


The person who has a completely liberated mind with self determined goals and values but, lives their life according to other people's goals and values is on the right hand path.

Likewise, a wild beast whose behavior is completely unrestrained but, has never developed their own goals or values is also on the right hand path.

The person who has determined their own goals and values and who expresses and pursues those goals and values to the highest degree is the on the left hand path.

I could be wrong about all of this but, this is what makes the most sense to me as of now and so it is my position.

The qualifiers you are using seem pretty arbitrary to me.

 

[KJP665]

The qualifiers you are using seem pretty arbitrary to me.

What don't you agree with?

 

[crossfire]

I think it is the purest form of living, pure undiluted existence in THAT EXACT MOMENT.

That Zen state when you reach a level of excellence that what you are doing seems to be happening THROUGH you rather than you 'doing' something, and you are observing yourself..is a form of thoughtless action.

Of course, all of the thought and work to develop to this point has to be considered--but that work and thought did not happen in THAT EXACT MOMENT. However, everything does come together in that moment.

Of course acting without thinking at all all of the time would lead to a very short life wouldn't it?

Indeed.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

What don't you agree with?

Thought without action = RHP
Action without thought = RHP
Thought + Action = LHP

More specifically:

Emancipated thought without emancipated action = RHP
Emancipated action without emancipated thought = RHP
Emancipated thought + emancipated action = LHP

It isn't that I don't agree(although I have no idea what the difference between thought/action and /emancipated/ thought/action is supposed to be), its that I'm not seeing how these things fit into the context of left handed attainment, or what criteria you used to draw those lines where you did. Care to try to connect the dots for me?