Challenge for atheists/ atheist position

[Demonslayer]

If someone says that bananas cure cancer that would be a statement that then would require evidence.

No it doesn't require any backup according to your definition of evidence. Your definition of evidence is "anything that leads someone to a conclusion" is evidence. I look at a banana and think, that yellow-y goodness MUST cure cancer, I can just feel it!

That's evidence LOL.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You don't get to define what words mean. Words have independent meanings. In your own la-la land you can think what you want, but in real life if you try to tell people evidence is any old thing you think, people will think your daft.

Are you saying that it doesn't mean that?

 

[Demonslayer]

but witnesses statements etc are evidence

Witness statements have a connection with what they are evidencing. A witness claims to have seen someone running from a building that was burgled. Now the judges job is to 1) find out of they are lying and 2) determine if the evidence is enough to come to a verdict. But the man running from the building is connected to the burglery by circumstance.

A person can't just get on the stand and say "my evidence that this man burgled that building is because I feel it in my heart."

 

[Robert.Evans]

No it doesn't require any backup according to your definition of evidence. Your definition of evidence is "anything that leads someone to a conclusion" is evidence. I look at a banana and think, that yellow-y goodness MUST cure cancer, I can just feel it!

That's evidence LOL.

no ... I am not sayng that. I think you are misunderstanding as a lot of atheists do because you have a superstitious element to you that thinks they already know the answer that a theist will give. I will leave it with you.

 

[Robert.Evans]

ev·i·dence

ev·i·dence [évvid'nss]
n
1. sign or proof: something that gives a sign or proof of the existence or truth of something, or that helps somebody to come to a particular conclusion
There is no evidence that the disease is related to diet.

2. proof of guilt: the objects or information used to prove or suggest the guilt of somebody accused of a crime
The police have no evidence.

3. statements of witnesses: the oral or written statements of witnesses and other people involved in a trial or official inquiry


vt (past and past participle ev·i·denced, present participle ev·i·denc·ing, 3rd person present singular ev·i·denc·es)
demonstrate or prove: to demonstrate or prove something (usually passive)
Their unwillingness to participate is evidenced by their failure to contact us.


Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Witness statements have a connection with what they are evidencing. A witness claims to have seen someone running from a building that was burgled. Now the judges job is to 1) find out of they are lying and 2) determine if the evidence is enough to come to a verdict. But the man running from the building is connected to the burglery by circumstance.

A person can't just get on the stand and say "my evidence that this man burgled that building is because I feel it in my heart."

I'm not saying that and no one is

 

[Robert.Evans]

Evidence must always be relevant. Your definition is no different than definition of opinion.

Everything is opinion

 

[Demonslayer]

Are you saying that it doesn't mean that?

Yes, I'm saying your definition of evidence (and others on these boards, not to just focus on your opinion) is so broad it renders the word meaningless. Further, your definition is not supported by any real defintion of the word evidence.

Can you describe the difference between your defintion of the word "evidence" and the defintion of the word "hunch" or "feeling?" Shouldn't there be a difference in the defintion of those words? With your definition, evidence is no more than a hunch or a feeling.

 

[Yorutenchi]

Everything is opinion

I don't believe that. The earth goes round the sun. That is not an opinion. We are not frogs. That is not an opinion. 9 is divisible by 3. That is not an opinion.

 

[Demonslayer]

Everything is opinion

What? Is it opinion that you can't live without a heart, or that you will die if you don't drink water? Are you saying there is no such thing as a fact?

 

[McBell]

The reason people don't accept this definition is because it renders the word "evidence" meaningless. You're essentially watering down the word evidence to mean nothing more than belief. Anything anyone believes in evidence.

Except that I gove a valid definition of the word, thus the reason for conditional modifiers like "empirical" and "objective".
You do not get to change the definition any more than those you whine are trying to change the definition.
Nor do you get to ignore definitions of the word your dislike.

Let me take it from another angle. Are you comfortable with this sentence:

"Black skin is evidence of laziness."

You'd agree with that sentence? ? After all, anything anywhere that convinces anyone of anything is "evidence" right? And you know there are a lot of bigots out there who will tell you black people are lazy. You're comfortable with calling black skin "evidence" of laziness, just because some a*sholes may associate the two things?

Looks like you still need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

I have already stated there are numerous standards for evidence.
Some people have set their standards extremely low.
Some people have set their standards extremely high.
And some people refuse to accept the fact their are differing standards and think everyone must comply with the standards they have set.

You come off as the last group...

As to your questions...
Personally, I do not believe that black skin is evidence of laziness.
But I do know there are people who do.

Yes, that which convinces someone of something is evidence.
It matters not if you or I or anyone else agrees with it.

I do not accept black skin as evidence of laziness.
But I do not ignore the fact that some people do, nor do I embarrass myself telling them their evidence is not evidence.

 

[Demonslayer]

I'm not saying that and no one is

You are though. You're saying anyone who thinks anything that makes them believe something is evidence, regardless of any real or relevant connection.

 

[McBell]

Evidence must always be relevant. Your definition is no different than definition of opinion.

Says who?
I mean, other than your personal standard for evidence?

 

[McBell]

This. Why not just bastardize the word proof in the same way? Black skin is proof a person is lazy. Black skin is neither proof nor evidence of laziness, despite the gut feelings of some bigots. Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves for agreeing to this.

There has to be SOME connection to use the word evidence. I'm not saying all evidence has to be empirical evidence. We have statisical evidence, circumstantial evidence, anecdotal evidence...but no definition of evidence is "whatever the hell you think is evidence."

Strawmen do not help your "argument"...

 

[McBell]

You don't get to define what words mean.

Yet here you are doing just that.
Ignoring the fact that one definition of evidence is that which convinces someone of something is doing the exact thing you whine about others doing here.

Hypocrite much?

 

[Demonslayer]

Except that I gove a valid definition of the word, thus the reason for conditional modifiers like "empirical" and "objective".
You do not get to change the definition any more than those you whine are trying to change the definition.
Nor do you get to ignore definitions of the word your dislike.


Looks like you still need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

I have already stated there are numerous standards for evidence.
Some people have set their standards extremely low.
Some people have set their standards extremely high.
And some people refuse to accept the fact their are differing standards and think everyone must comply with the standards they have set.

You come off as the last group...

As to your questions...
Personally, I do not believe that black skin is evidence of laziness.
But I do know there are people who do.

Yes, that which convinces someone of something is evidence.
It matters not if you or I or anyone else agrees with it.

I do not accept black skin as evidence of laziness.
But I do not ignore the fact that some people do, nor do I embarrass myself telling them their evidence is not evidence.

So tell me how your definition of the word "evidence" differs from the definition of the word "thought."

Also, please provide any link at all to anywhere that accepts the defintion of the word "evidence" as "anything anyone thinks" which is how you define it.

It is not me changing the defintion of the word it's you fellas. It's not a gut feeling, there has to be some connection, strong or weak.

Full Definition of EVIDENCE
1
a: an outward sign : indication
b: something that furnishes proof : testimony; specifically: something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter

 

[Demonslayer]

Yet here you are doing just that.
Ignoring the fact that one definition of evidence is that which convinces someone of something is doing the exact thing you whine about others doing here.

Hypocrite much?

I posted the offical defintion from Webster. Please post yours and source it.

 

[McBell]

No it doesn't require any backup according to your definition of evidence. Your definition of evidence is "anything that leads someone to a conclusion" is evidence. I look at a banana and think, that yellow-y goodness MUST cure cancer, I can just feel it!

That's evidence LOL.

the claim that bananas cure cancer is just that.
A claim.
The evidence as you presented is that you think it does.
well, then you changed, or added, you can feel it.

This is setting the standard for evidence so low as to make it useless beyond yourself and your choir.
But it is still evidence.

 

[McBell]

Full Definition of EVIDENCE
1
a: an outward sign : indication
b: something that furnishes proof : testimony; specifically: something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter

Post #273. shows that you are not only flat out wrong about the definition of evidence but that you also have not presented the "full definition of evidence"...

 

[McBell]

I posted the offical defintion from Webster. Please post yours and source it.

Please see post #237