Challenge: Make Your Case for Creationism

[Unification]

As I said "The Abrahamic god." If you need more explanation then that I suggest to get in contact with a Christian or a Jew. If that isn't good enough then perhaps you should take your silliness elsewhere. Your pedantry has become childish.


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This is based off of your imagination, assumptions and preconceived beliefs of what "the Abrahamic god" means to every individual? I wasn't aware you were all knowing about each and every one of these individuals. That answers your question to the thread then, you, Jojom are God and created everything and are all knowing. You've provided your own evidence to everyone. Therefore, my best evidence would be you and your words. The Jojom of Abraham.

I am a Christian, Christ-like.. And a Jew, one inward.

 

[Thana]

I empathize that taking in evolution can be a lot to take in, especially for those that have been convinced of other alternatives. But to dismiss rational and provable assertions, such as ToE, and accept unprovable assertions, such as "God created the heavens and the earth" just because we don't like the provable assertion ... that is folly,

Dear, The opposite of Creationism is not Evolution.

And I accept the ToE thank you very much.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Dear, The opposite of Creationism is not Evolution.

And I accept the ToE thank you very much.

Ah, I get it, I had a dullard moment where I was short on the uptake, LoL Yet there remain people who think just like you posted; and some who may be brazen enough to even use the words that you used. So please consider my rebuttals as directed to those who would actually state or believe that Creationism must be true because "the alternative sucks", LoL.

 

[George-ananda]

Re. defining "creationism."

There are three, as described by Wikipedia below. In main, the creationism I refer to is the belief that the universe and variety of life originate from specific acts of divine creation, one carried out by the Abrahamic god.

1) Young Earth creationism includes a biblical literalist interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative.

2) Old Earth creationism holds that the physical universe was created by God, but that the creation event described in the Book of Genesis is to be taken figuratively. This group generally believes that the age of the Universe and the age of the Earth are as described by astronomers and geologists, but question scientific explanations for the variety of life

3) Progressive creationism holds that species have changed or evolved in a process continuously guided by God, with various ideas as to how the process operated—though it is generally taken that God directly intervened in the natural order at key moments in Earth history.
​

Take your pick.


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My pick is:

4) Nature Spirit Creationism holds that nature spirits worked with the elements of the earth to create the complexity that produced life.

 

[outhouse]

"Explain" the god of Abraham, if it makes any difference.

First, he is a mythological character.

Second, his god was El not Yahweh. El has been evolving in many culture possible as far back as about 5000 years ago and still in use today.


Now the god of Abraham has also been redacted to Yahweh and monotheism, after Abrahams literary creation. Yet El and Yahweh were combined by the finish of the books as you know them.

So I will ask you since this concept has been in almost a constant state of evolution, what time period would you like to talk about?

Unification needs in order to make his case for creationism, or whatever. Actually, I don't believe he's serious about anything here

He stays on my ignore list for that reason.

 

[jojom]

First, he is a mythological character.

Second, his god was El not Yahweh. El has been evolving in many culture possible as far back as about 5000 years ago and still in use today.


Now the god of Abraham has also been redacted to Yahweh and monotheism, after Abrahams literary creation. Yet El and Yahweh were combined by the finish of the books as you know them.

So I will ask you since this concept has been in almost a constant state of evolution, what time period would you like to talk about?

Actually, my reply, which you quote, was just a correction of leibowde84's mistake that the issue was one of definition.

He stays on my ignore list for that reason.

And it shouldn't be to long before he makes another list.


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[Thana]

Ah, I get it, I had a dullard moment where I was short on the uptake, LoL Yet there remain people who think just like you posted; and some who may be brazen enough to even use the words that you used. So please consider my rebuttals as directed to those who would actually state or believe that Creationism must be true because "the alternative sucks", LoL.

It's not that it 'must be true' it's that they'd rather believe it to be true, which was kind of my point.

And I am one of those people who think just like I posted and I am brazen enough to use those exact words. I'm not afraid of Atheists looking down their nose at me, As if ignorance was the worst crime a human could ever commit. I'm an extremely practical person and honestly, the alternative does suck and I'd rather not be a miserable sod who gets their jollies from ripping on people's ideology.

 

[Unification]

It's not that it 'must be true' it's that they'd rather believe it to be true, which was kind of my point.

And I am one of those people who think just like I posted and I am brazen enough to use those exact words. I'm not afraid of Atheists looking down their nose at me, As if ignorance was the worst crime a human could ever commit. I'm an extremely practical person and honestly, the alternative does suck and I'd rather not be a miserable sod who gets their jollies from ripping on people's ideology.

Good for you, and ignorance is bliss in many ways. I am glad that you see through the real intent of most.

 

[Unification]

My pick is:

4) Nature Spirit Creationism holds that nature spirits worked with the elements of the earth to create the complexity that produced life.

In your opinion, could nature spirits be a form of higher electromagnetic energy unknown to observation, physical senses, and measurement, or would spirit be completely separate from energy?

On a side note, it's great to see another form of creationism that excludes and does not confine everything to assumptions in a tiny mind of a very small closed box of "Abrahamic."

 

[Shad]

While I do understand your claim about creationism, you also make the claim that "creationism is the only philosophy which validates both fact and opinion". Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge your explanation of why creationism validates both fact and opinion, but you haven't provided any support for your claim that it is necessarily the ONLY philosophy that can do this. Can you provide your reasoning for why you think it would be impossible for any other philosophy to "validate both fact and opinion"? I mean, even Plato/Socrates get into this notion that subjective experience can be real, but, simultaneously, erroneous. So, I find it hard to believe that creationism is NECESSARILY the ONLY philosophy that can achieve this.

There is metaphysical naturalism. Keep in mind creationism is a metaphysical position.

 

[rusra02]

But, doesn't it bother you that this line of reasoning is identical to that used by ancient men who did not have any scientific understanding to explain things like lightning that were, at that time, a mystery to us? In other words, it seems like this is merely a God of the Gaps argument. Can you explain your rationale why using an argument from ignorance such as this is valid?

Ignorance? The fine-tuning of the laws governing the universe are scientific facts, only recently understood. This "God of the gaps" argument is nothing more than smoke and mirrors, IMO. The so-called gaps in science's understanding of the universe are more like grand canyons. To claim otherwise, IMO, is deception, either of self or others or both.

 

[rusra02]

Nope. That would mess up with our free will

Ciao

- viole

In what way?

 

[George-ananda]

In your opinion, could nature spirits be a form of higher electromagnetic energy unknown to observation, physical senses, and measurement, or would spirit be completely separate from energy?

I see them as beings with an intelligence different from ours. There are many types of beings in the universe with their own path. The have bodies/forms just like we have an physical, astral and mental body. Their bodies are at a level above the physical. They work with the elements o the physical plane to bring life down to the physical plane.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I'm not afraid of Atheists looking down their nose at me, As if ignorance was the worst crime a human could ever commit. I'm an extremely practical person and honestly, the alternative does suck and I'd rather not be a miserable sod who gets their jollies from ripping on people's ideology.

There are far worse crimes than ignorance; but coming from the darkness of ignorance to the light of knowledge is an exciting journey that I wish to share. I'm sorry if you see that as a bad thing.

I do not look down my nose at theists. I rather empathize. I was once a YEC, "speaking in tongues", dancing in the aisles, Bible Believing theist.

There are bitter atheists out there who do "get their jollies" from mocking others. But as not every theist is the same, not every atheist is the same, either. I feel that YEC's are deprived the sense of wonder of the world around us and denied true knowledge of our existence and the way the world truly works by the teaching of YEC. To view existence without juxtaposing a creator deity; simply taking it in within the moment; is an awesome experience that I would like to share with others. To view the blades of grass on my front lawn and to realize that we are, through common descent, distant cousins, causes all life to be related; this connects me to the universe in a way that religion never did. This is truly and pleasantly humbling. Looking at things from this angle, the "alternative" truly does not suck.

For me, the criticizing of religious dogma is not embarked upon out of spite.

 

[Thana]

There are far worse crimes than ignorance; but coming from the darkness of ignorance to the light of knowledge is an exciting journey that I wish to share. I'm sorry if you see that as a bad thing.

I do not look down my nose at theists. I rather empathize. I was once a YEC, "speaking in tongues", dancing in the aisles, Bible Believing theist.

There are bitter atheists out there who do "get their jollies" from mocking others. But as not every theist is the same, not every atheist is the same, either. I feel that YEC's are deprived the sense of wonder of the world around us and denied true knowledge of our existence and the way the world truly works by the teaching of YEC. To view existence without juxtaposing a creator deity; simply taking it in within the moment; is an awesome experience that I would like to share with others. To view the blades of grass on my front lawn and to realize that we are, through common descent, distant cousins, causes all life to be related; this connects me to the universe in a way that religion never did. This is truly and pleasantly humbling. Looking at things from this angle, the "alternative" truly does not suck.

For me, the criticizing of religious dogma is not embarked upon out of spite.

I do hope you know that your idea of empathy can very easily be considered condescending, a different form of looking down one's nose at others.

And considering I've spent a great deal of my youth jealous of those I perceived as ignorant, I'd disagree that ignorance is darkness and knowledge is light. In my experience, knowledge is a burden.

And I don't mean to crap on your philosophical beliefs but is a momentary feeling of awe really worth.... like.... anything? I don't agree with YEC's or any fundamentalist doctrine but I mean.. atleast they've got something going on.

 

[Unification]

I see them as beings with an intelligence different from ours. There are many types of beings in the universe with their own path. The have bodies/forms just like we have an physical, astral and mental body. Their bodies are at a level above the physical. They work with the elements o the physical plane to bring life down to the physical plane.

Emanation from source to source.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

*SIGH*​

Thank you

If you accept evolution theory then your knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe, including how people choose, is destroyed, as well as your subjectivity is destroyed.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Pretty much all forms of creationism will rely on a "god of the gaps

The gap is called freedom. Without freedom no God.

 

[Skwim]

Without alluding to evolution . . . . . . .in any way.

Or, failing that, post such a case you've read elsewhere.


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Because creationism as described in post 5 is solely a religious position, the only case for it, whether young earth, old earth, or progressive, that can be made is, "The Bible (or some other holy book) tells us so." Anything other than this, such as claims that scientific evidence supports it, are based on the mistaken notion that by showing such evidence invalidates evolution, creationism is, by default, correct. Of course there is no such evidence, so the argument is moot from the get go.

 

[fantome profane]

i have never seen a book that did not have an author, or a painting that did not have an artist, or a machine that did not have an inventor, so it is hard to believe something a million times more complex did not have a creator

I have never seen a flower being painted by a human being*, nor have I seen a factory that produced trees, no one holds the patent rights to a child. I have never seen someone make a planet or a star. It is hard to believe in a star-maker when we know how stars form.


*

Generally roses don't need a painter.