Changing the Bible

[Unveiled Artist]

No, I think that the soul is the whole YOU. If you give your soul to someone and then to someone else, you have to take it away from the first one to give it to the next one, and so on and so on.......

When you give it away you belong to the one you gave it to.

That's not how life works. We are interconnected and give our souls to a lot of people who care for us and we in return. I cannot give myself to one "person" and disregard the rest as not equals for my give myself in charity and love. To me, that is limiting who I am in relation to more than one person and place that I care for and connect to.

I read in a native american spiritual book, I don't know how accurate it is to their specific culture, but in some native cultures around the world, the community-the family and town-takes care of a newborn child. When that child grows, his or her soul is raised by a multitude of people. For which, he gives his soul back when he is taught to do the same in return.

I was raised single parented and it is no picnic. Yes, I love my mother and everything about who she is and I also find it benefitial to have a full family to take care of me. My aunts came to visit me when I had brain surgery. My brother protected me. My sister is keeping me from giving up since I saw her at our grandmother's funeral. My soul is given to all of these people and all of the spirits of my environment and those histories and passions like art to which I identify and choose to identify with.

To single one thing out puts me in a box. If I believed in deities, I'd be a hard polytheist because I just can't see a world that has just one god.

 

[savagewind]

To single one thing out puts me in a box. If I believed in deities, I'd be a hard polytheist because I just can't see a world that has just one god.

I believe in just one destination. I can't end up in more than one place.

It is not about not loving other people and giving your all to someone to love them.
God's will is that we love one another.

 

[savagewind]

If I had loved my mother to listen to her and make her happy, I never would have listened to the Jehovah's Witnesses. I would not have been baptized and I would not have become a Christian. I would be godless. I believed it was God's will for me to listen to them. I loved God more than I loved my mother at that time. I still think that she was wrong.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Edit: Thank you for the heart, by the way.

I believe in just one destination. I can't end up in more than one place.

It is not about not loving other people and giving your all to someone to love them.
God's will is that we love one another.

I don't want to make this sound debative, but how do you see a rainbow as one color? How can there be only one love?

That's kind of like seeing only one love from my mother but with my father, sister, aunt, and so forth, their love is just a reflection of my mother's love. I don't understand that.

 

[psychoslice]

I believe that with the spirit of discernment we can find truth in any ones scriptures, or any book, including the news paper. There is a lot of hearsay in the scriptures of the bible, its been changed that many times over many years, the only way to really get some good from it is again, spiritual discernment.

 

[savagewind]

Edit: Thank you for the heart, by the way.



I don't want to make this sound debative, but how do you see a rainbow as one color? How can there be only one love?

That's kind of like seeing only one love from my mother but with my father, sister, aunt, and so forth, their love is just a reflection of my mother's love. I don't understand that.

You are talking about humans. I am not.

 

[Thief]

Among the things that should be taken out are Jesus' teachings of intolerance and leaving one's family if they don't believe the same as you.

Topic: Leave family members who are not of your faith
Matt 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Matt 10:34-37: 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Matt 8:21-22: And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.


Topic: Curse those that don't believe as you do
Matt 10:14-15 14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. (So, if we don't believe you are god, you are going to send destruction upon us; see also Matt 11:20-24).

Matt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. (Wonderful black and white thinking that makes enemies of anyone who does not become your follower).

Matt 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. (What loving language; I am sure that will endear you in people's hearts.)

Matt 13:41-42: 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (So, if we offend you by not doing what you want us to do, you promise to burn us. Does that remind you of evil King of Babylon?)

Matt 22:12-13: 12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (So, if I don't have the right clothes on you'll cast me into outer darkness. Your love overwhelms me.)

Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (God, you are so nice, if we don't help every single person in need, you'll burn us.)

Those are just the teachings of Jesus. Now, if we look at what Jesus did as Jehovah of the Old Testament... (the following is reused from another thread) His Love for us explains why he killed every living creature except for a few during the Flood he caused, why he commanded the Israelites to needlessly slaughter helpless animals as sacrifices, why he killed children and infants in Sodom, why he killed the Egyptian first borns, why he orders the death penalty for adultery and treats women as inferior and unclean, why God sent two bears to rip up 42 children for making fun of Elisha's bald head, why he threatens hellfire to anyone who refuses to kiss his ***, etc.

He expects us to give of our love freely to God. Well, I am sorry, but love cannot be freely given in an environment in which we are threatened with hell if we don't love and worship him. I have no fear because the God of Abraham does not exist. I don't doubt that one bit. But, if he did exist I would not want anything to do with him. He just seems like a big bully who is full of himself. The whole idea of sin was invented to keep us in bondage and "gratitude" to a god that does not even exist. Sorry, but I will get my instructions on the virtue of love from someone who doesn't have so much hate for those who don't buy his bull.

As for things that should be added to the Bible; I'd like to redo the Ten Commandments.

At this point in my life I pretty much have an allergic reaction to the word "commandments". But, often as a believing Mormon, especially after learning a little more about how humans function psychologically, I began to be dissatisfied with the big Ten. With all the wisdom, insight, and understanding of human nature and our needs that God was supposed to have, the Ten Commandments seemed to be lacking in the instructions that would really be useful to humankind.There is no commandment against physical abuse. There is no commandment to work for social justice. It would have been nice if the message in the Beattitudes was in the big Ten.

Now, I don't believe in god anymore. I realize that today many of the big Ten are ignored and violated, many times even by believers. But, for many, many years people tried to live by the big Ten and many still do today. So, if you could change history, what would you make the Ten Commandments, if you knew that many people would try to live by them?

As a reminder, here is a list of the old commandments:

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'


Here is my revised list:

1) Strive to use your best judgment. Realize that these commandments are aspirational in nature. Their intent is to guide and inspire toward the very highest ethical ideals. There may be times when the most appropriate course is to supercede one of these principles, so use your best judgment. Practice moderation - you need not run faster than you have strength.

2) Strive to limit the harm one causes. Be aware of the possible consequences of your actions, and make a reasonable effort to not cause unnecessary injury or obstruction or damage. This includes harm to one's self, others, all living things and the environment. This does not mean that you should seclude yourself so as to limit the chances of doing anyone harm and it is understood that by living you will cause some harm - you have to eat something, your body fights bacteria, you will produce some waste products, etc. Be reasonable with one's expectations on this point.

3) Strive to benefit one's self, others, and the environment. In as much as it is possible, and with respect for the desires of others (i.e., don't help when your help is reasonably not wanted), help all to live healthily and adaptively.

4) Strive to be trustworthy. Excepting times when honesty puts others in danger, seek to be honest in your dealings with others. Hold in confidence information that should be kept confidential. Act with integrity and be true and honest with one's self.

5) Strive to take appropriate responsibility for one's actions. Keep your word and uphold your commitments. Repair the damage your actions may have caused. Sincerely apologize to, and if possible reimburse, individuals you may have injured. Know the laws and what is expected of you. Once you have done what you can to right your wrongs, forgive yourself and move on.

6) Strive to be fair and just. Inasmuch as possible practice equity. Be aware of and try to limit the influence of one's biases and prejudices.

7) Strive to respect and protect the rights and dignity of one's self, others, and all of creation. It is not enough to ensure that you are not mistreating others, you must strive for social justice for humans and the humane treatment of animals. All people have a right to self-determination. Special safeguards may be necessary to protect the rights and welfare of persons or communities whose vulnerabilities impair autonomous decision making.

8) Strive to be patient and forgiving. Try to have patience with one's self, others, and anticipated events in life. Free yourself of the bondage of resentment and disappointment.

9) Strive to gain understanding. Knowledge enables one to make better use of that which is available and helps one to successfully adapt to one's environment.

10) Strive to love, show empathy, and be compassionate. We are a social species and for much of our lives are dependent on one another. It is important to our well-being and mental and emotional health to have strong relationships with others. Loving is satisfying to the soul and beautiful. Empathy and compassion can calm arguments and disagreements.

Here is my revised list...two items

Consider the Almighty

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

 

[savagewind]

If it is true that "God is love" and I choose God over even my family members, I will be love also. It isn't about not loving others. It is about loving others on a much higher level.

When Jesus said those things about putting him first, that is what he meant.

 

[Thief]

What I am saying is that love in this context isn't interest, kindness, and affection. I think the love Jesus taught means soul. Can you give your soul to more than one? How?

yeah....you cannot serve two masters
so said the Carpenter
You will love one and hate the other

but i do not believe a soul can be bartered
no one actually 'gives' their soul away

just their commitments

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You are talking about humans. I am not.

But if humans are a reflection of god, then (like talking about the human jesus), I'd assume the question makes sense. If there is one love from god, there would be one love (core love not people's interpretations of it) from humans as in this example, humans are a reflection of god. (Somewhat pantheism, now that I think of it).

If there were more than one gods that we reflect off of, that would make more sense because we carry more than one attribute of ourselves. If we attributed each of these unique things to the gods, that makes sense.

So, I see no distinction in the two if talking about people being a reflection of god. If they are not, then how does the human get love if human love has a different definition than god's love (for a christian)?

 

[Thief]

But if humans are a reflection of god, then (like talking about the human jesus), I'd assume the question makes sense. If there is one love from god, there would be one love (core love not people's interpretations of it) from humans as in this example, humans are a reflection of god. (Somewhat pantheism, now that I think of it).

If there were more than one gods that we reflect off of, that would make more sense because we carry more than one attribute of ourselves. If we attributed each of these unique things to the gods, that makes sense.

So, I see no distinction in the two if talking about people being a reflection of god. If they are not, then how does the human get love if human love has a different definition than god's love (for a christian)?

it is written....ye ARE gods

in that saying i anticipate God and heaven will share the abilities of heaven...if....
you have a clear reflection (of mind and heart)

allowing your will unto your surroundings requires....restraint

note the temptation in the wilderness

 

[Unveiled Artist]

it is written....ye ARE gods

in that saying i anticipate God and heaven will share the abilities of heaven...if....
you have a clear reflection (of mind and heart)

allowing your will unto your surroundings requires....restraint

note the temptation in the wilderness

I don't understand what you are saying. Can you say it in one or two sentence summary put together so I can get the context?

 

[Thief]

I don't understand what you are saying. Can you say it in one or two sentence summary put together so I can get the context?

do like haven would do.....reign in heaven with a crown
your will takes form as you see fit

 

[savagewind]

yeah....you cannot serve two masters
so said the Carpenter
You will love one and hate the other

but i do not believe a soul can be bartered
no one actually 'gives' their soul away

just their commitments

Well put. To love is to be committed to the object. Look up committed and it means loyal.
Can you be loyal to someone with a different will than God's will be done? No, of course not.

 

[savagewind]

But if humans are a reflection of god, then (like talking about the human jesus), I'd assume the question makes sense. If there is one love from god, there would be one love (core love not people's interpretations of it) from humans as in this example, humans are a reflection of god. (Somewhat pantheism, now that I think of it).

If there were more than one gods that we reflect off of, that would make more sense because we carry more than one attribute of ourselves. If we attributed each of these unique things to the gods, that makes sense.

So, I see no distinction in the two if talking about people being a reflection of god. If they are not, then how does the human get love if human love has a different definition than god's love (for a christian)?

Look up love on the thesaurus. Yours might say, "allegiance". That is another word like commit.

I think that love means to make happy. Imagine that some people are happy to be opposed to God. In that case is your love loving God too? I do not understand how. God says to love one another, but always with the love of God in mind. Sometimes with the love of God in mind loving them feels like hate to some people. Doesn't it?

For instance, it is written, "speak truth to one another". That would be loving God, but the one you might be speaking to won't feel the love. They might get angry. They would feel the hate.

It is written Jesus says, "you will be hated". The reason why? It is not because they are bad (like the rest of them teach ). It is because they feel God's love is hate and they respond in kind.

 

[savagewind]

I don't think it is true that a person can be allied with haters of God and still honestly say, "I love God" or, "I love my gods".

It seems to me that The God is giving permission to married couples to be allied together even if one hates God. I can't think of any other instance where a bad allegiance is due a blessing.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Look up love on the thesaurus. Yours might say, "allegiance". That is another word like commit.

We can have allegiance to more than one spirit (or god). Love does not hold favoritism. Unless you are talking about scriptural marriage rather than love, love goes beyond just man/woman, just god/man, just stranger/man. It goes beyond just one person. The spirits-the souls of our deceased, kin, history, and land-they all make up who we are as people. They are the love and give the love (as spirits) we have inside us now. That's why we have varies identities (or varies ways we define ourselves.) One person a Muslim. One person African American. One person, I don't know, a boy scout coach. Another a husband. How can we say there is one god/spirit when this person has so many identities that makes up who he is?

If he is a reflection of the spirits, then to make him a reflection of one god, you'll literally have to take a lot out of the person that makes him the person he is.

It's not funny. It makes a lot of sense. If you have a rainbow and the sun hits it and it flushes the water, the reflection on that water isn't one color it is still multiple colors.

If you are using two or three paint colors to make it one, it's still two or three paint colors regardless if we see it as one color rather than what reality says, it's many mixed.

Love has multiple facets; multiple colors; multiple identities. Unconditional love is expressed in many ways and each way is a personality of the spirits.

I think that love means to make happy. Imagine that some people are happy to be opposed to God. In that case is your love loving God too? I do not understand how. God says to love one another, but always with the love of God in mind. Sometimes with the love of God in mind loving them feels like hate to some people. Doesn't it?

I don't understand that. Why one spirit? We are a community. Community's love and support each other and each person in that community and environment land and person do not share one love but are like a rainbow and each person's individual expression of love (which IS love) are put together. It's still separate colors (separate paint colors) we are just working together as one (but looks like one color).

"Sometimes with the love the spirits in mind", I'd say since there is more than one person in humanity, in a community, in a family, and in arts and way of expression. Life isn't singular. Life isn't. Why would I expect love and any other aspect of life to contradict the diverse nature of life's foundation?

For instance, it is written, "speak truth to one another". That would be loving God, but the one you might be speaking to won't feel the love. They might get angry. They would feel the hate.

Not all spirits are focused on love. The souls of the "deceased", if one likes, are not special just because they are spirits. I don't see how them being spirits gives them an upgrade (you can laugh now). As such, they get mad to, they yell at me (yes, they yelled at me once. Really really loud). They warn me. They protect me. I learn from them. They learn from me.

One god over many is political. I don't see love in hierarchy.

It is written Jesus says, "you will be hated". The reason why? It is not because they are bad (like the rest of them teach ). It is because they feel God's love is hate and they respond in kind.

It is written by my grandmother said "that people should love their families and keep each other together as families." My grandmother tells me about stories that happened in my childhood. I can tell you those stories since they are scripture to me. I don't know if they would help, though.

Scripture is usually personal. When you quote what jesus says, it's like my quoting with what the spirits say. This is my belief though.

Many polytheists have different ways they speak to the gods and many don't see "love" as part of their faith in the same manner as the god of abraham believers do.

You believe differently than I do. I believe differently than jane. We all express different loves because we have different sources of that love. It exist because we are here now.

What is wrong with diversity as the source of life rather than seeing everything by one source?

I know one source doesn't like diversity, but I'm asking the logic behind why diversity is wrong rather than who says it is.

 

[savagewind]

One god over many is political. I don't see love in hierarchy.

What is wrong with diversity as the source of life rather than seeing everything by one source?

I know one source doesn't like diversity, but I'm asking the logic behind why diversity is wrong rather than who says it is.

I do not know that one source doesn't love diversity. Quite the opposite really.
Do you drive a car? It is best if you focus on the road and what is ahead. It is not right that the passengers keep telling you how to do it because that would add a distraction.

When a person drives he has an idea of where he is going. One idea is the safest and the best way to do it. God is one way to go. Gods are many ways to go. No god is nowhere to go. I am choosing one way and I think it is what the one called Jesus taught.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmmm.

I do not know that one source doesn't love diversity. Quite the opposite really.
Do you drive a car? It is best if you focus on the road and what is ahead. It is not right that the passengers keep telling you how to do it because that would add a distraction.

Actually, I can't. When we are on the road (or bycicle for that matter), we concentrate on many things at one time. We need to know where we are going, pay attention to road maps, to other drivers, and so forth. Those are the distractions. The persons in the diver seats all speak in unison (community). One message not many overlapping each other.

edit. sorry scratch this. It reminds me of a party-teen movie where the kids are drunk in the back and the driver is trying to figure how to get back to their destination. One god/kid may not know the ride direction. "Turn left, you'll get there" when he should have turn end right down the road. Many passengers who were together (and hopefully not drunk), would say "hey, Bill, I think it's down here a bit." wait, "naw, we did take a right turn on Albuquerque" and his friend says to bill, "you know, I think you're right." and jane says, "yeah, once you get up the block just take a left."

...and so forth. One god is like depending on the GPS. Believe me, I know exactly where I live from my docs office two hours away and once it took us almost three hours or so. By that time I could have been in another state. Maybe by checkin' with me and the GPS (not one or the other) maybe, if the driver knew how to tune out the distractions for the message itself, he'd use all the things available to him to get where he's going.

But I like your analogy though.​

When a person drives he has an idea of where he is going. One idea is the safest and the best way to do it. God is one way to go. Gods are many ways to go. No god is nowhere to go. I am choosing one way and I think it is what the one called Jesus taught.

Gods=diversity (We-centered)

God=Can't think of the opposite. It's "Me/You centered"

The road analogy, sorry to say, doesn't work out in polytheism. It would be more all roads are interconnected. So there is no beginning or end. It's not liner it's circular. So if I am on one path A and it turns onto path B then that's fine. I know there are two paths A and B (two spirits) and knowing that is knowing the diversity of life/paths we can cross and walk on.

One god is like having a maze but you are only preventing the person in the maze from turning different corners to get to different exits. It's limiting him where he can go because regardless of the diversity in turns, he still ends up in one destination.

Many gods is the same with diversity, but because of the diversity we have different exits.

There are no GPSs and maps we can get at 7'11 in life. By it's nature, it's diverse. Why make people go to one destination (believe in one god) when life just doesn't work that way.

 

[savagewind]

Why make people go to one destination (believe in one god) when life just doesn't work that way.

It is because I believe it isn't about each person, but it is about the destination of ALL people, Humankind. Where is humankind going? There is only one destination. How can there be more than one?