A good post, but have heard it before. Sorry but not good enough.
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chaos magick, & the way of the phychonaut
- Thread starter Goblin
- Start date
A good post, but have heard it before. Sorry but not good enough.
Because there no reason to think so.When I first joined the RF it kind of ruffled my wings that most here adamantly argued against the Setian idea that Magick was a non-natural phenomenon. Now I find it as an interesting curiosity. Is it really that incomprehensible to identify Magick as something that is not a naturally occurring phenomenon, but as something that is separate and distinct from the natural order of things? I can see the logic in the former, but it bewilders me that some of you can't see the logic in the Setian argument. Just a thought.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Oh, hell how many times have I answered that question?
Black Magic is the Art of changing or altering the equilibrium of the Subjective Universe in order to produce a proportionate change in the equilibrium of the Objective Universe in accordance with the individual Will.Xeper.
/Adramelek\
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Goblin
Sorcerer
Aleister Crowley was one of the first modern occultists to point out that magick doesnt happen just by desiring something, it has to be a natural will our "true will"
the desire that comes from not even thinking, its just there.
if we could just wish things into existence there would be no point in magick at all.
magick provides symbolisms that appeal to us on a subconscious level, & thus do not need to be consciously thought about. so it just happens, because its our true will and not some surface desire.
its an urge and a need triggered by things we feel, see, & experience.
thats how sigils, incense, rituals, and everything else effect us.
we cant just say we want it, we really have to want it.
if it doesnt come naturally it doesnt happen.
there is a swords man in japan who cuts bullets in half by not thinking & instead just feeling. the bullet moves faster than he can think, but he does it anyway.
his true will, his natural inclination or will is to cut the bullet.
the desire that comes from not even thinking, its just there.
if we could just wish things into existence there would be no point in magick at all.
magick provides symbolisms that appeal to us on a subconscious level, & thus do not need to be consciously thought about. so it just happens, because its our true will and not some surface desire.
its an urge and a need triggered by things we feel, see, & experience.
thats how sigils, incense, rituals, and everything else effect us.
we cant just say we want it, we really have to want it.
if it doesnt come naturally it doesnt happen.
there is a swords man in japan who cuts bullets in half by not thinking & instead just feeling. the bullet moves faster than he can think, but he does it anyway.
his true will, his natural inclination or will is to cut the bullet.
And what makes you think any of this is not non-natural, just because it says so? I know the same thing can be said for my own arguments, hence, as I've said, it will always go both ways.
Another modern Magician said - "From the Ninth Angle is the Flame of the beginning and ending of dimensions, which blazeth in brilliance and darkness unto the glory of Desire!" - Dr. Michael A. AquinoXeper.
/Adramelek\
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occams razor. Yours had unnecessary bits.And what makes you think any of this is not non-natural, just because it says so? I know the same thing can be said for my own arguments, hence, as I've said, it will always go both ways.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Unnecessary bits of what? You know I can go on and on.
Bits of woo?
Let ask you why you believe?
Common now Iti oj, after all this time I think you know whose philosophy I adhere to.
It's a personal choice on my part, just as yours is a personal choice on your part.Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Common now Iti oj, after all this time I think you know whose philosophy I adhere to.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Well I hope my post helped enlightened you. I reject the claim for the same reason I reject other "supernatural claims"
Well isn't that part of the point of it all?
Question all things?! Just because I prefer the philosophy of a specific "religion" doesn't mean I don't question it from time to time. I'm always questioning my own beliefs, that's how I grow in my own individual Understanding. It is also an aspect of Chaos Magick and of...Xeper.
/Adramelek\
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I prefer the Setian approach because it works for me and inspires me more than other Magical systems have. It's freer and not as narrow or one sided as say the Thelemic/Crowleyan approach or LaVeyan Satanism. However, under the aegis of Set, I do work with certain aspects of the later two.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Goblin
Sorcerer
I suppose my ideas shouldn't be as concretely formed as they are(what Lao Taught called an "overdeveloped intellect")
But it doesn't make any sense to me. Everything in nature is natural, even things like plastic are just natural oils hardened together.
Nature is an all encompassing concept, since nature is the word we use for the whole. Nature is the only thing that exists.
How could anything be deemed unnatural?
But it doesn't make any sense to me. Everything in nature is natural, even things like plastic are just natural oils hardened together.
Nature is an all encompassing concept, since nature is the word we use for the whole. Nature is the only thing that exists.
How could anything be deemed unnatural?
Precisely!
Do you think consciousness exist out side of spacetime?
Absolutely, as neither space nor time, has the power to destroy it - the Gift of the Black Flame.
Infinitum
Possessed Bookworm
I wasn't supposed to drop in here, but this prompted me to add a little to your conversation. Neither consciousness, intelligence or awareness are solely human attributes. We're constantly gaining new understanding of the intelligence of animals and often having to re-examine our conceptions of what animals think and feel. Just to give a few examples, in recent years dolphins and other cetaceans have started gaining legal rights much like our human rights; elephants have been shown to understand altruism in experiments requiring team work; we know fish now feel pain and that birds not only remember the face of their enemy, but also spread the knowledge to their peers. It's a highly fascinating subject, but it also raises the question whether we're as unique as we've been led to believe.