Chapel Hill Shooting: New Details Cast Doubt on Religious Motivation

[gsa]

At a recent press conference, the wife of the shooter stated she was almost certain that religious hatred did not play a part in the killings. The wife was aware of a longstanding frustration with the parking situation in the neighborhood, as well as a fascination with a movie in which a shooter goes on a rampage, and that he was a strong supporter of LGBT rights, racial equality and the Second Amendment.

To date, there is no clear evidence that the religious beliefs of the victims played any role in these deaths, and that the speculation to the contrary is unsubstantiated. Apparently, there were problems with various neighbors, not just these particular individuals.

 

[leibowde84]

At a recent press conference, the wife of the shooter stated she was almost certain that religious hatred did not play a part in the killings. The wife was aware of a longstanding frustration with the parking situation in the neighborhood, as well as a fascination with a movie in which a shooter goes on a rampage, and that he was a strong supporter of LGBT rights, racial equality and the Second Amendment.

To date, there is no clear evidence that the religious beliefs of the victims played any role in these deaths, and that the speculation to the contrary is unsubstantiated. Apparently, there were problems with various neighbors, not just these particular individuals.

Either way, the shooter was obviously "off his rocker." So, I'm not sure whether motive is even important, as the guys concept of reality was way off.

 

[gsa]

Either way, the shooter was obviously "off his rocker." So, I'm not sure whether motive is even important, as the guys concept of reality was way off.

Everyone thinks this is obvious and it certainly seems plausible if not probable, but there's no clear evidence he had mental health problems at this point.

 

[leibowde84]

Everyone thinks this is obvious and it certainly seems plausible if not probable, but there's no clear evidence he had mental health problems at this point.

Assuming he actually is the shooter, it seems like there is no other option beyond his mental instability. You need to be nuts to be able to carry something like that out, imho.

 

[gsa]

Assuming he actually is the shooter, it seems like there is no other option beyond his mental instability. You need to be nuts to be able to carry something like that out, imho.

You certainly need to be "off" on some level, I agree.

 

[Laika]

I'm disappointed that the residents met over his behavior and didn't inform the police, as the consistency of his behavior could probably constitute intimation of some sort. I'd have a vague hope somewhere along the line someone could have prevented it, but the fact they didn't is not surprising though as no-one expects this stuff to happen.
To kill three people over a parking space is utterly senseless and it is remarkable and depressing how someone can cheapen peoples live to such an extent. I hope he gets the psychiatric help he so obviously needs. You'd hope curing him and making him realize what he's done would be punishment enough.

 

[columbus]

The fact that he turned himself in almost immediately is strong evidence against it being a hate crime, much less terrorism. He knew what he did was a horrific crime. He went to face the music.
He must go to prison for about a century. But, based on current information, what he did wasn't for any higher cause. His mental health was fragile and he snapped, now he must pay for the crime. I expect he will.

Tom

 

[gsa]

I'm disappointed that the residents met over his behavior and didn't inform the police, as the consistency of his behavior could probably constitute intimation of some sort. I'd have a vague hope somewhere along the line someone could have prevented it, but the fact they didn't is not surprising though as no-one expects this stuff to happen.
To kill three people over a parking space is utterly senseless and it is remarkable and depressing how someone can cheapen peoples live to such an extent. I hope he gets the psychiatric help he so obviously needs. You'd hope curing him and making him realize what he's done would be punishment enough.

I do hope that it instills remorse, but he must go to prison for the rest of his life. Murder is murder, and barring exceptional circumstances a multiple murder should be a life sentence.

 

[Politesse]

Killing three people "execution style" in their own homes, after a history of religion-related aggression toward them? Over a parking spot? This wasn't just road rage. Saying that he killed them just over parking issues is like saying the police only kill people for suspected burglaries or illegal cigarette sales, and ignoring the obvious elephant in the room.

 

[Politesse]

Assuming he actually is the shooter, it seems like there is no other option beyond his mental instability. You need to be nuts to be able to carry something like that out, imho.

You may not like it, but there is plenty of history to testify to the fact that otherwise apparently sane people are more than capable of murder, when sufficiently angered.

 

[columbus]

history of religion-related aggression toward them?

Where did you see this? I missed it completely.
I have not really tried to follow the story. It makes me want to puke.
So tell us about this history and where you learned about it.

Tom

eta. Hey Poli. Nice to see you.

 

[Laika]

I do hope that it instills remorse, but he must go to prison for the rest of his life. Murder is murder, and barring exceptional circumstances a multiple murder should be a life sentence.

My guess is this sounds like an obsession over parking space is really warped sense of violation of the self and may therefore be treatable. I 'd like to live in a world without prisons as I don't believe people are innately evil but merely made so; there is however no solid scientific practice to demonstrate that this is possible. It's a shame to turn three wasted lives into four, but for the sake of protecting everyone else prison will have to do.

 

[catch22]

I voted no, probably not motivated.

The guy was a gun toting lunatic who got fed up with his neighbors. If they went to a baptist church, it would read "Gunman kills 3 students" not "Gunmen kills 3 Muslims."

The bias is more on the media in this case than the criminal.

 

[gsa]

Killing three people "execution style" in their own homes, after a history of religion-related aggression toward them?

I have seen zero substantiation of this. The closest is a remark the young woman allegedly made to her father, where she felt that was the reason he was hostile to him. But there was no indication he made any anti-Muslim remarks or said anything about religion at all.

 

[Politesse]

Where did you see this? I missed it completely.
I have not really tried to follow the story. It makes me want to puke.
So tell us about this history and where you learned about it.

Tom

eta. Hey Poli. Nice to see you.

The friends and family of the victims have testified that they were already feeling threatened by the man well before the shooting:

Friend: This Was No ‘Parking’ Murder

She also said that on the day of the murders, Deah had just returned by bus. The only one with a car was the younger sister Razan, who had already parked earlier in the day. The point being: There was no “parking dispute” in close proximity to the actual murders.

Dr. Abu-Salha made it clear that he, too, believed that Hicks had deliberately targeted the victims, noting: “It was execution style, a bullet in every head.” He added, “This was not a dispute over a parking space; this was a hate crime.” Abu-Salha also quoted his late daughter, who he said had told him, “‘Honest to God, he hates us for what we are and how we look.”

(ETA And likewise )

 

[gsa]

The friends and family of the victims have testified that they were already feeling threatened by the man well before the shooting:

Friend: This Was No ‘Parking’ Murder

Huh; from the article:

One of Yusor’s close friends, Amira Ata, who like Yusor wears a hijab, explained to me by phone that when she heard that her friends were killed, she immediately knew it was Hicks. Ata noted that about two months ago, Hicks had come to the door of the victims’ apartment a short time after she had left.

According to Ata, Hicks, who had a gun in his hand, yelled at Yusor about an alleged parking issue, and claimed that the couple and Ata had been loud and woke up his wife. Yusor was so shaken by the incident that she called Ata and they discussed whether to report Hicks to the police. Yusor ultimately decided not to alert the authorities.

No mention of religion.

The crime is barbaric and out of character with everything that we know about the man, to be sure, but the confrontation was about a parking issue. And the only alleged "anti-Islam" angle is being an atheist with an interest in Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. Which is to say, there is still no "anti-Muslim" or "anti-Islam" angle.

 

[gsa]

I should add, he might very well have been swelling with hate for these people, and presumably he was given that he executed them with shots to the forehead. But that is not necessarily because of their religion. And in fact, it is hard to ascertain why this is being touted as a motivation in the absence of any evidence that anti-Muslim animus was the motive.

 

[Politesse]

So a person must announce "I am killing you for your race/religion/orientation!" in order for it to count as a possible hate crime? That seems a bit... naive.

 

[gsa]

So a person must announce "I am killing you for your race/religion!" in order for it to count as a possible hate crime? That seems a bit... naive.

No of course not. But there was nothing anti-Muslim about his posts on social media, nor was there anything he said or did that would be indicative of being anti-Muslim. Let me explain:

Let's say that someone murders me because they're enraged. A neighbor, who isn't happy with my bad snow shoveling of the sidewalk, say. This person is a straight black male (likely given where I live). I, being neither straight nor black, am dead. From this does one infer that the crime was racially motivated or motivated by anti-gay animus? No. The identity and the barbarism of the crime, standing alone, says nothing.

Let's suppose he was an evangelical Christian or Pentecostal. Would that be sufficient to infer anti-gay animus? No. Let's say he was a member of the NAACP and opposed gentrification. Sufficient to support racial animus? Of course not. If he posted Leviticus 20:13 on his social media page the day before the murder? Maybe. Although quite frankly, even that, standing alone, is probably not sufficient to support a hate crimes verdict.

 

[Nietzsche]

No of course not. But there was nothing anti-Muslim about his posts on social media, nor was there anything he said or did that would be indicative of being anti-Muslim. Let me explain:

Let's say that someone murders me because they're enraged. A neighbor, who isn't happy with my bad snow shoveling of the sidewalk, say. This person is a straight black male (likely given where I live). I, being neither straight nor black, am dead. From this does one infer that the crime was racially motivated or motivated by anti-gay animus? No. The identity and the barbarism of the crime, standing alone, says nothing.

Let's suppose he was an evangelical Christian or Pentecostal. Would that be sufficient to infer anti-gay animus? No. Let's say he was a member of the NAACP and opposed gentrification. Sufficient to support racial animus? Of course not. If he posted Leviticus 20:13 on his social media page the day before the murder? Maybe. Although quite frankly, even that, standing alone, is probably not sufficient to support a hate crimes verdict.

Something else;

If this was a hate-crime, would he have turned himself in? Someone who commits a hate-crime tends to believe what they're doing is right.