Chat about Hebrews/Judaism

[Rival]

Later He sent Jesus to provide a way foe non-Jews to receive His blessings.

There already was a way. It's established in Genesis that one need not to be Jewish to be blessed.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

But everyone is not Jewish so Jesus provided a way for others to be blessed.

 

[Rival]

But everyone is not Jewish so Jesus provided a way for others to be blessed.

You didn't read my post.

You do not have to be Jewish to be blessed.

 

[CLee421]

You didn't read my post.

You do not have to be Jewish to be blessed.

Actually I think there's a typo and it sounds like you said you must be Jewish to be blessed

 

[CLee421]

Thank you to everyone commenting!

SO I just had a thought.

The King the Jews wait for - sounds like what Jesus will be when He returns.

Why do Jews not believe the writings of Paul and Mark - Matthew - Luke .. etc?

I know I could research this, and I will, and I probably know some, but what prophecies must be fulfilled by the Messiah?

 

[Rival]

Thank you to everyone commenting!

SO I just had a thought.

The King the Jews wait for - sounds like what Jesus will be when He returns.

Why do Jews not believe the writings of Paul and Mark - Matthew - Luke .. etc?

I know I could research this, and I will, and I probably know some, but what prophecies must be fulfilled by the Messiah?

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/why-jews-cannot-accept-the-new-testament/

and

Who Is Moshiach (the Jewish Messiah)?

 

[Desert Snake]

What do you mean? The Bible distinguishes those who are not Jews, as Gentiles. The Bile clearly shows that Gentiles believed and followed Jesus Christ.

Wrong....
Gentiles, Jews, Jesus followers, are all different , in the Scripture.

 

[CLee421]

On another note -

Wrong....
Gentiles, Jews, Jesus followers, are all different , in the Scripture.

I am a Gentile by blood. By Spiritual birth - I am adopted by God into His family.

I highly doubt we will be called Jew or Gentile in heaven.

 

[CLee421]

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/why-jews-cannot-accept-the-new-testament/

and

Who Is Moshiach (the Jewish Messiah)?

Just asking as I go - it says the Moshiach will come when the Jews are "worthy of redemption.." I don't understand how anyone could ever be worthy of God- much less an entire nation at once. Even when He was present with the Hebrews in fire or smoke or light - there was always complaining or complications.

Where does it say in the Torah that God will send the Messiah when some level of worthiness is obtained?

 

[InChrist]

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26-28

 

[Rival]

Just asking as I go - it says the Moshiach will come when the Jews are "worthy of redemption.." I don't understand how anyone could ever be worthy of God- much less an entire nation at once. Even when He was present with the Hebrews in fire or smoke or light - there was always complaining or complications.

Where does it say in the Torah that God will send the Messiah when some level of worthiness is obtained?

I 'm not trying to answer you wrong, but there are differing views on things like this. For instance, I believe Reform Judaism doesn't believe in the coming of Moshiach. Just so you know, I tend to often find myself agreeing with Chabadniks on a lot of things, but it's not that everyone else does. As with all things, differences of opinion arise.

It doesn't mean they will be worthy as in they will suddenly become perfect; it means they will be in such a state of sin and despair they need such a person.

 

[Desert Snake]

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26-28

That's after the gentile becomes a Jesus follower.

 

[Flankerl]

The King the Jews wait for - sounds like what Jesus will be when He returns.

Except not.

Why do Jews not believe the writings of Paul and Mark - Matthew - Luke .. etc?

Because they are Greco-Roman writings of a Greco-Roman Religion.

Also same reason you don't believe in Islam, Sikhism, Tenrikyo, Seicho-no-Ie or Zoroastrianism.

 

[CLee421]

Except not.




Because they are Greco-Roman writings of a Greco-Roman Religion.

Also same reason you don't believe in Islam, Sikhism, Tenrikyo, Seicho-no-Ie or Zoroastrianism.

Do you say except not simply because of the things already documented on Jesus?

And Paul Mark and Matthew were Jewish correct? Luke was a Greek Doctor who interviewed folks and wrote what he wrote.

 

[CLee421]

I don't believe the other religions you listed because 1. Those gods have not interacted with me 2. I don't see any issues with the letters written that ended up being compiled and called the "New Testament"

 

[Flankerl]

Do you say except not simply because of the things already documented on Jesus?

I am a Jew. Nothing about some dude named Jesus is "documented" to me.

We are not waiting for your Jesus or a person like your Jesus.

And Paul Mark and Matthew were Jewish correct?

How should I know that? I was born in in 5745 and not 3800.
I don't view Christian writings as evidence for anything.

I don't believe the other religions you listed because 1. Those gods have not interacted with me 2. I don't see any issues with the letters written that ended up being compiled and called the "New Testament"

Yeah I doubt that's the reason.

 

[rosends]

The King the Jews wait for - sounds like what Jesus will be when He returns.

Not exactly. First, Jesus lacks certain characteristics that would allow him to be king. Second, there is nothing in Jewish thought about any "returning" -- the messiah is a human, not a supernatural being. Third, there will be a fundamental difference in the nature of the world at the time; it isn't just about someone showing up, but about everyting shifting.

Why do Jews not believe the writings of Paul and Mark - Matthew - Luke .. etc?

For the same reason that Christians don't accept the Koran, or any other supposedly divine(ly inspired) texts from other religions. They are not canon which qualifies. The Jewish canon of written works was closed and the era of prophecy had ended well before Jesus was born.

I know I could research this, and I will, and I probably know some, but what prophecies must be fulfilled by the Messiah?

At a minimum start here.

 

[rosends]

I don't understand how anyone could ever be worthy of God- much less an entire nation at once. Even when He was present with the Hebrews in fire or smoke or light - there was always complaining or complications.

There are many different understandings of when the messiah might arrive. One opinion says that he will come when all Israel deserves it. Another says, when Israel least deserves it and therefore most needs it. Another, when all Israel observes a single Sabbath completely. These are all statements meant to be studied and explored, not taken literally, because (IMHO) it is in the study and discussion that prove ourselves worthy, not in the relying on simple answers and twiddling our thumbs, waiting.

Where does it say in the Torah that God will send the Messiah when some level of worthiness is obtained?

another resource.

 

[CLee421]

How should I know that? I was born in in 5745 and not 3800.
I don't view Christian writings as evidence for anything.

How should I know that? I was born in in 5745 and not 3800.
I don't view Christian writings as evidence for anything.

Yeah I doubt that's the reason.

The letters are often written to Jews, not "Christians" .. by (mostly) Jews - Christian is a name that was given by others later to them/groups.

Regarding your "yeah I doubt that's the reason" ... what are you suggesting.?

 

[CLee421]

Doesn't God say HE wants to be your King? Wasn't this the issue when they still demanded a flesh and blood king and He allowed Saul, who wasn't so great, then began anointing His own line to eventually bring the Messiah out of?