Christian: Apostolic Succession

[blackout]

Ultra,

Do you understand the Pauline notion of the Body of Christ? In the New Testament, there is a teaching authority and it is not given to everyone. This does not mean we all can not evangelize.

So far as I'm concerned Paul should've kept all his notions to himself.

I used to be an Ultra Catholic BTW.

No need to explain it all to me. But thanks for making the effort.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

But even Christ conferred teaching authority, "he who receives you receives me" and "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven". Even apart from Paul, we can see that- while all Christians are equal- not all have the same role.

 

[blackout]

But even Christ conferred teaching authority, "he who receives you receives me" and "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven". Even apart from Paul, we can see that- while all Christians are equal- not all have the same role.

You read/think/see/translate/understand through Roman Catholic glasses.
(as I used to do)

There are dramatically different ways of interpreting these passages however,
and most any other. I prefer reading with MY OWN glasses.

I see something very different.

 

[RomCat]

Here is what the Church teaches on Apostolic Succession:

"Not one of the Christian sects can trace its origin to the apostles."
Baltimore Catechism 160d

Note that sect means all other Christian churches.

 

[sojourner]

Bishops are not apostles.

Historically, yes they are.

Wrong. From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

1: one sent on a mission: as a: one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel and made up especially of Christ's 12 original disciples

I wouldn't place too much authority here: it's wrong. the apostles were a group distinct from "the Twelve."

the majority of Protestants, who don't really have a sacramental understanding of the Church.

Watch the assumptions and the generalizations. Many (if not most) protestants do have a sacramental understanding of Church.

 

[Katzpur]

Historically, yes they are.

Could you provide some evidence to support that statement, sojourner? I believe that the office of Apostle is distinct from the office of Bishop. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're saying that they were one and the same. How did you come to that conclusion?

I wouldn't place too much authority here: it's wrong.

What specifically is wrong? All three of the definitions or just one of them?

the apostles were a group distinct from "the Twelve."

Christ's Apostles are referred to on numerous occasions in the scriptures as "the twelve." I'm not sure what you mean. Are you using the words "apostle" and "disciple" interchangeably?

 

[sojourner]

Could you provide some evidence to support that statement, sojourner? I believe that the office of Apostle is distinct from the office of Bishop. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're saying that they were one and the same. How did you come to that conclusion?

Apostolos isn't an office -- it's an adjective: "The sent one." Bishops are, by nature of the office of episcopoi, sent out by the Church to shepherd a community of the Church.

What specifically is wrong?

The "original disciples" -- meaning "the Twelve," were not the "apostles." I'm in the camp that the apostles were a later interpolation.

Christ's Apostles are referred to on numerous occasions in the scriptures as "the twelve." I'm not sure what you mean. Are you using the words "apostle" and "disciple" interchangeably?

No. See above. I'm not convinced that the "Twelve" were anything other than preferred disciples.