Christian denial of the threat of nuclear war

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Japan attacked the USA unprovoked by the US. Nations will fight to defend themselves willing to do massive destruction in hopes of finally stopping unprovoked attack and death of their people. The USA financed the rebuild of Japan doing an amazing job of it, and signed a treaty to protect Japan from attack by other nations in the future. Japan remained a sovereign nation. Japan did not become one of the united states of America even though they were defeated in a war Japan started desiring Americans to die to rob them of their land and resources. The blight is on the aggressor that starts a war, first strike, not the people that want self defense to prevent from being murdered.

Didn’t countries like the US have oil sanctions against Japan?

 

[metis]

My point was that the Vatican stands for a very worldly power.
That is not Christianity.
Christianity is light years away from that.

If the Church is to have any effect on the world, it must be in it. As Gandhi stated, those who believe that religion should be totally separate from the state really don't understand religion [his words]. On top of that, they don't much understand the role of the state because it has no choice at times but to make decisions dealing with religious groups.

IMO, the real question more deals with how much should religion be intertwined with the state, and I don't have an answer to that because I don't think there's any magic formula to give us "the answer"?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

We have to be cautious of perhaps taking this too literally. It could refer to spiritual death and spiritual life. Or could it? What do you think? I may be over my head here.

I don't know for sure.
But, one meaning of spiritually dead, means, disbeliever. Baha'u'llah said, when a new Manifestation appears, all are considered dead, until they believe.
In this sense, there are currently many more then 2/3 spiritually deads in the world.
The Catastrophe that is mentioned in Bahai Wtitings, seems to be physical.
We are assuming 2/3 death is related to the Catastrophe.
At least there are some notes from sayings of Shoghi Effendi, that he said most people die, and then miraculously some survive the Catastrophe and then they rebuild humanity.

 

[Triumph]

Didn’t countries like the US have oil sanctions against Japan?

In your opinion what would be the reason to have an oil sanction against Japan, what was Japan doing that would threaten other nations
so they no longer want to do business with them?
A sanction is actually a loss on all sides as when trade is stopped then there is a great profit loss to the seller and the buyer.
A sanction is never done without a serious reason.
.Trade would never be stopped by any nation without cause because all countries want to raise their GNP . A nation that is a physical threat to them
would be sanctioned as a possible remedy to the threat. Is what is gained by the threat acted upon, greater than the loss caused by the sanction, is the situation.
Japan thought they could defeat the US and take over the entire county and all their resources. The US is not a land grabbing nation but Japan was.

WW3 is mentioned in the Bible but done so symbolically. Japan is a factor in part of it as they are in opposition to China over land and resources.
China is the dragon and the rider of the Black horse of the Apocalypse, nuclear WW3. Interesting that China has fighter jets that are not grey but black.
The 7 angels=messengers, are the air forces of 7 nuclear empowered nations. The 7 thunders represent the same but are calls to war.
Angels never had bird wings, that an angel has feathers is a false image because aircraft had not been invented yet. Artists were told create an image of a flying person and the only thing they had ever seen fly is a bird. But the Bible is a book of what happens in the Future and in that future people fly in aircraft.

 

[Triumph]

I fully agree with you.

Meek=easily imposed on; submissive
The entire world will be filled with the submissive because all surviving humans will be hiding from nuclear radiation, completely submissive because of lack of resources and fear of exposure to radiation. They are afraid to go outside. That is the future of any survivors of WW3. The peace comes when nuclear winter sets in and the freezing of the oceans even to the equator.
All life will be extinct so that is peace with nothing dying on this planet in the future because Earth has passed away devoid of any life.

 

[Triumph]

If the Church is to have any effect on the world, it must be in it. As Gandhi stated, those who believe that religion should be totally separate from the state really don't understand religion [his words]. On top of that, they don't much understand the role of the state because it has no choice at times but to make decisions dealing with religious groups.

IMO, the real question more deals with how much should religion be intertwined with the state, and I don't have an answer to that because I don't think there's any magic formula to give us "the answer"?

Jesus taught separation of church/religion and state/government. Jesus wanted no radical religious fanatic demanding a nation be submissive to their false ideas of God.

 

[ppp]

Jesus taught separation of church/religion and state/government. Jesus wanted no radical religious fanatic demanding a nation be submissive to their false ideas of God.

Where do you get that from?

 

[Triumph]

Where do you get that from?

"Separation of church and state means that, at an institutional level, church and government are separate entities. Jesus spoke about this in Matthew 22:21 when he said, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's,” thus making a clear delineation between the “things that are Caesar’s” (the government’s) and the “things that are God’s.”
Hebrews wanted Jesus to run the Jewish government as a "son of David" they considered royal bloodline. They saw his amazing healing powers and knew he was advanced among men. People loved Jesus. Jews wanted to lay the government on his shoulders. Jesus did not come to run a secular government. He came to establish the one and only correct religion based on love of all people. God is Love. Jews wanted a military leader and Jesus refused to be that. In a trial for his life Jesus rejected the title "king" and said other people called him that. He did not want to be a king and does not care about the luxury of a king. Jesus rejected the title itself by teaching all people are equal, none to be exalted above another.

 

[metis]

Jesus taught separation of church/religion and state/government.

First of all, there simply is no way that there can be a complete separation of church & state. Secondly, we cannot be certain what Jesus would have said along that line because the government that controlled eretz Israel was Roman and polytheistic.

In the Parable of the Widow's Mite, Jesus praised the widow for giving beyond her means, which means beyond tithing. Thus, he could have said that such tithing was not necessary but didn't, and the tithe then went for both religious and what we would now call secular purposes.

When Christians under Constantine took power, they created numerous agencies to help the poor and downtrodden, plus began education programs whereas they hadn't existed before except for the wealthy and powerful. Doncha think Jesus would approve of that, especially after reading the Sermon On the Mount? And God had ordained no such separation, such as when he anointed David to be king so as to replace Saul as just one example.

 

[rational experiences]

If humanity in the beginning were meek innocent submissive non violent non threatening family we were.

The story said of memory family.

Then the falling star came burning gases changed the brain of men.

Science and bad behaviour inherited. We are taught life was innocent it didn't control the star gain. If it never fell we would be living a very different earth life.

If the meek were going to return to family by mind status innocent then we had a projected prediction.

2012 end. Brain mind healing. Conscious evolution. Humans aware agree for humanity and family.

A large human population healed believe it. You seem to forget we never got to obtain natural heritage. As fallout was increased by power plants. After Russia's new star fall gain.

No longer are your predictions reality. As we've passed 2012 inheritance or don't you see reality as reality?

Changed brains held constant. Introduced mind change so man thinks he's a woman...woman thinks she's a man...lots of criminal behaviour.

The meek haven't inherited as suggested. The meek won't inherit upon any nuclear atmospheric cause either.

Mutated minds behaviour would be inherited.

So informed what is the meek going to do versus lifes destroyer rich man scientist life threatened?

Are you going to take family action to inherit the rights of human justice?

Liberty is the balances and scales of justice. Earths heavens no longer balanced as we see burning gases at night in an immaculate heavens.

Coat of colours owning the sacrifice of human life Christ consciousness....by immaculate imbalances.

When it should be a God Christ balanced heavens amassing.

 

[rational experiences]

If humanity in the beginning were meek innocent submissive non violent non threatening family we were.

The story said of memory family.

Then the falling star came burning gases changed the brain of men.

Science and bad behaviour inherited. We are taught life was innocent it didn't control the star gain. If it never fell we would be living a very different earth life.

If the meek were going to return to family by mind status innocent then we had a projected prediction.

2012 end. Brain mind healing. Conscious evolution. Humans aware agree for humanity and family.

A large human population healed believe it. You seem to forget we never got to obtain natural heritage. As fallout was increased by power plants. After Russia's new star fall gain.

No longer are your predictions reality. As we've passed 2012 inheritance or don't you see reality as reality?

Changed brains held constant. Introduced mind change so man thinks he's a woman...woman thinks she's a man...lots of criminal behaviour.

The meek haven't inherited as suggested. The meek won't inherit upon any nuclear atmospheric cause either.

Mutated minds behaviour would be inherited.

So informed what is the meek going to do versus lifes destroyer rich man scientist life threatened?

Are you going to take family action to inherit the rights of human justice?

Liberty is the balances and scales of justice. Earths heavens no longer balanced as we see burning gases at night in an immaculate heavens.

Coat of colours owning the sacrifice of human life Christ consciousness....by immaculate imbalances.

When it should be a God Christ balanced heavens amassing.

Russian holy men challenged the west and stated...you seem to just accept the loss of natural.consciousness by behaviours of changed humanity.

As advice. It should not just be accepted. As changed mind human behaviours states conditions consciousness has changed.

They said it as a warning. Not as a distaste. As family is stated by holy practice to be innocent of Satan's return. Star fall.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I looked up 'elements' in that verse in strong s concordance. The physical constituents of the Universe.

I find the Bible is older than Strong's and in Bible days they did Not have the Periodic Table.
Just as elementary school is not about physical constituents of the Universe but about elementary things.
Thus, the elementary things in Bible days, in Bible speak, being base elementary thing of the world alienated from God.
Earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5 - the wicked do Not abide - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Meek=easily imposed on; submissive

In Bible speak, both Moses and Jesus were meek.
Sure they were submissive to their God, but they were Not easily imposed on.
In the Bible a meek person is a humble person that can be taught.
Just as children are teachable, so a meek person can be taught about Jesus.
A meek person obeys God when there is a conflict between God's right to govern and man's. -Acts of the Apostles 5:29

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"Separation of church and state means that, at an institutional level, church and government are separate entities. Jesus spoke about this in Matthew 22:21 when he said, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's,” thus making a clear delineation between the “things that are Caesar’s” (the government’s) and the “things that are God’s.”
Hebrews wanted Jesus to run the Jewish government as a "son of David" they considered royal bloodline. They saw his amazing healing powers and knew he was advanced among men. People loved Jesus. Jews wanted to lay the government on his shoulders. Jesus did not come to run a secular government. He came to establish the one and only correct religion based on love of all people. God is Love. Jews wanted a military leader and Jesus refused to be that. In a trial for his life Jesus rejected the title "king" and said other people called him that. He did not want to be a king and does not care about the luxury of a king. Jesus rejected the title itself by teaching all people are equal, none to be exalted above another.

Yes, Jesus did Not want to be an earthly political king because Jesus would be king of God's kingdom for a thousand years over Earth. - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
On Earth Jesus could Not have accomplished what God's purpose is for Jesus.
God's purpose for Jesus to be Prince of Peace and usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation to God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Revelation 22:2 - Healing as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I find the Bible is older than Strong's and in Bible days they did Not have the Periodic Table.
Just as elementary school is not about physical constituents of the Universe but about elementary things.
Thus, the elementary things in Bible days, in Bible speak, being base elementary thing of the world alienated from God.
Earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5 - the wicked do Not abide - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35

I still think they meant, "the physical constituents of the Universe," without knowing what they were.

 

[Triumph]

Yes, Jesus did Not want to be an earthly political king because Jesus would be king of God's kingdom for a thousand years over Earth. - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
On Earth Jesus could Not have accomplished what God's purpose is for Jesus.
God's purpose for Jesus to be Prince of Peace and usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation to God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Revelation 22:2 - Healing as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

Paul did not know the gospel of Jesus, Words of God, even after Paul started preaching claiming to be an Apostle, as the 13th Apostle when only 12 are allowed by Jesus. Paul had no Holy Spirit when preaching. All people were told to go to Jerusalem first before preaching to receive Holy Spirit acceptance by God with knowledge of His words.
Paul egotistically said he deliberately avoided going to Jerusalem before starting out to preach in the desert for 3 years. Paul knew he should learn what he is to teach but did not want to learn anything different than his Pharisee beliefs of a son of David Christ and exaltation of Abraham. Paul's first act was in defiance to what Jesus required people to do. When Paul returned after lying about God in the desert for 3 years, Paul still had no knowledge of what Jesus taught and had to go to stay with Peter to find out. But then Paul just ignores what he does not agree with, and continues to preach Paul's own interpretations of the words of God. Paul even tells us he lies to "glorify" God and wants to know why he is called "sinner" for it.. Paul scatters the sheep away from the Shepherd like the Benjamin wolf in sheep's clothing he is.
We do have to pray to God because most people never learned what I desire mercy and not sacrifice means. Jesus does not get to decide when he will return, that is God's decision. We need to pray it is not in winter because nuclear winter is the cause of biological extinction of life on Earth caused by men with greed and no respect for life. If you think Jesus, the Son of God, is returning to kill people then you have not learned what I desire mercy and not sacrifice means. Jesus tells us to go and learn it The liar, Son of Man supporting Abraham claiming to be the Christ in Revelation is a killer and is the prince with nothing in him that Jesus warns is coming.

 

[Muffled]

In this post I'm going to be referring to the Christian Baptist church teachings I grew up around. I recognize that these views do not represent the majority of Christianity, but it does represent the majority of Christians I know.

The Pastor says that nuclear war cannot and will not happen. "There will be wars and rumours of wars when the end is near" he touts. The Christian view is that humanity cannot destroy itself; Jesus will come back before that happens! So, obviously all out nuclear war won't happen, as that would be the apocalypse, and the apocalypse is only gonna happen a specific way.
Does anyone see the danger in this thinking? As a Christian, I think there is the distinct possibility humanity can wipe itself out before Jesus comes back, at least mostly.
I have a question for you, if you're a Christian. Do you think that all out nuclear war can possibly happen before the rapture and all that? Or do you think God will prevent it?

I believe the world will not be completely destroyed by nuclear war but the possibility remains for someone to do something stupid. It does seem to be human nature.

 

[Muffled]

I think this presents a false dichotomy. There is no reason why a nuclear war need extinguish the entire human race. It would kill a large chunk of humanity, but far from everybody on the planet.

I believe usually the likely warring parties are in the northern hemisphere and will leave the southern hemisphere intact.

 

[Muffled]

There is prophecy in Zechariah 13:8

"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."

Regards Tony

I believe it is talking about Jews only and in particular the Dispersion & the Holocaust.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe it is talking about Jews only and in particular the Dispersion & the Holocaust.

In verse 2 it is in the time of the 'Lord of Hosts' and in the Baha'i Writings that is Baha'u'llah.

"Zechariah 13:2 "it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land."

Regards Tony