Christian Harrassment

[Balthazzar]

I can't comment on your presumptions.

What I can say is that your comments are conjecture. Maybe you have your reasons to think as you do, but they are not based on research. You are expressing your feelings about the trajectory but they do not represent the trajectory. Hope you understand.

Nevertheless, you spoke of decline in some sects and strengthening of others. Do you have any research on that?

Research? No, but with both the secular nations and non secular nations of the world, I'd suggest the presumption is accurate, based both on history and present day internatiinal standings.

 

[Truth in love]

I see this observed increase in Christian harrassment of NeoPagans as another indication of the rise and overtness of Christian nationalism:

"Over the past seven years, barely a half dozen of these disrupters would show up, RavenHawk said. But the groups that have appeared this year 'aren’t just protesting,' she added. 'They are collectively at war with us. They made that clear.'"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/08/26/christians-pagans-harassment/

I am curious if this has been occurring in other countries. In America, this calls into question some of the ideals of religious freedom and freedom of speech being preached by the folks also suggesting that Christians are being oppressed.

Particularly disheartening in the article is how police respond. Would the same occur for NeoPagans at Christian festivals?

Thoughts?

Being a jerk is an almost universal problem.
Jodren Peterson’s bit about pseudo moralistic crusades vs dealing with our own issues is likely a big factor.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

There has been an anti theist movement in play for a while now. Anti Christian, anti Islam, anti hindu, anti religion .... basically.

It's not uncommon among atheist to attack religion, and the justification is based on history and war, etc. Ironic if you ask me, if not a you become what you hate most reality. The attacked includes pagan, Wiccan, and most others who hold religious views. The cages each group belong to are rattled, each being pitted against the others as if we're being viewed as gladiators in a Roman colloseum.

It's a common war strategy as far as I can tell. Infiltrate, instigate, tear apart the cohesion from the inside to the point we're not just fighting those against us, but also our own ilk. The strict black and whites sometimes over power logic, reason, and the shades of grey in-between this side and every other. It's a breakdown of Civil society thrust on us by ??? I doubt by common atheists, but I'm sure some join in. I'd suggest this is all instigated by more militant minded end of world radicals than place the blame on specific religious groups, given all of us are being targeted.

Who are they? I don't know. What can be done to counter the counter culture who? You tell me. I try to live in peace and be of benefit to my neighbors, but then doing so seems dangerous in some circles. Dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, every man for himself? Heh, umm ... sure ........ umm .... only enemy realities seem so much more pleasant than co ops and team work.

In an OP suggesting that Christian Nationalism is increasingly provocative against Pagans, your answer is...blame the atheists?

 

[firedragon]

Research? No, but with both the secular nations and non secular nations of the world, I'd suggest the presumption is accurate, based both on history and present day internatiinal standings.

Okay Balthazar. I understands your source of knowledge. I can't engage with conjecture so I shall respectfully withdraw from this discussion. Thank you for engaging.

 

[Balthazzar]

In an OP suggesting that Christian Nationalism is increasingly provocative against Pagans, your answer is...blame the atheists?

Well, you managed to comprehend at least the most insignificant point in my post. Maybe you can conjure up enough intellectual honesty to read and at least try to comprehend the rest. Did I blame atheists? No. Did I mention atheists? Yes. Do atheists often attack and or demean religion and religious belief? Yes. Did I suggest it was atheists who are the problem? No.

Intellectual honesty is expected. An average IQ might be needed also. Hopefully you'll at the very least make that mark.

 

[Balthazzar]

Okay Balthazar. I understands your source of knowledge. I can't engage with conjecture so I shall respectfully withdraw from this discussion. Thank you for engaging.

Try this link ... There's a lot online to verify the decline. Catholics up, but catholic churches down, Christianity is on a decline. This alone is enough to support what I presumed by observation and history.

Christians Decreasing As More U.S. Adults Not Affiliated With Any Religion, Study Shows

 

[firedragon]

Try this link ... There's a lot online to verify the decline. Catholics up, but catholic churches down, Christianity is on a decline. This alone is enough to support what I presumed by observation and history.

Christians Decreasing As More U.S. Adults Not Affiliated With Any Religion, Study Shows

Someone else shared it in this thread. Thanks. I read it.

It's not global.

 

[Balthazzar]

Someone else shared it in this thread. Thanks. I read it.

It's not global.

What's not global? Which part? The decline or the strengthening? Or maybe you're referring to the secular nations ..... same applies. But yeah, OK... it's not global. I said international anyway, but heh, you read it. You know. Bravo. I must be illiterate and unibsevsant. Meh, that's OK. My presumptions stand as stated.

 

[firedragon]

What's not global?

The research you gave.

 

[Balthazzar]

The research you gave.

Have you insight into the way its going globally? As always, there's both a decline a strengthening of, and the same true for secular leanings. You can't engage in conjecture, so I provided a link and I will suggest (again) that there's both a decline in some regions sects and a strengthening in others, as well as with secular thought. It's not conjecture. That's how it works. Always.

 

[firedragon]

Have you insight into the way its going globally?

There are research studies and statistical modelling on this very subject.

 

[Balthazzar]

There are research studies and statistical modelling on this very subject.

I read some stats, but no real research. The stats indicate what I stated prior.

 

[firedragon]

I read some stats, but no real research.

Hmm. SO you differentiate between stats and research?

How do you get stats without research?

 

[Balthazzar]

Hmm. SO you differentiate between stats and research?

How do you get stats without research?

It's difficult to call looking up stats online as research, although it would qualify. Ive done research on the Bible and various religions. That entailed several years of indepth study, discussion, and debate. So yeah, I differentiate between pulling up a researched stat and the research involved developing those stats.

 

[firedragon]

It's difficult to call looking up stats online as research,

No one claimed that looking at stats is doing some awesome research. But the stats are an outcome of research.

Ive done research on the Bible and various religions. That entailed several years of indepth study, discussion, and debate. So yeah, I differentiate between pulling up a researched stat and the research involved developing those stats.

That's irrelevant and a strawman.

There are research studies on historical data of religions and atheism. The data is clear. And based on that data, statistical modelling has given future predictions of where its all going.

If you wish I can give you those studies.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Being a jerk is an almost universal problem.
Jodren Peterson’s bit about pseudo moralistic crusades vs dealing with our own issues is likely a big factor.

Mind elaborating a bit?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Well, you managed to comprehend at least the most insignificant point in my post. Maybe you can conjure up enough intellectual honesty to read and at least try to comprehend the rest. Did I blame atheists? No. Did I mention atheists? Yes. Do atheists often attack and or demean religion and religious belief? Yes. Did I suggest it was atheists who are the problem? No.

Intellectual honesty is expected. An average IQ might be needed also. Hopefully you'll at the very least make that mark.

To be fair:

It's not uncommon among atheist to attack religion, and the justification is based on history and war, etc. Ironic if you ask me, if not a you become what you hate most reality. The attacked includes pagan, Wiccan, and most others who hold religious views. The cages each group belong to are rattled, each being pitted against the others as if we're being viewed as gladiators in a Roman colloseum

 

[Balthazzar]

No one claimed that looking at stats is doing some awesome research. But the stats are an outcome of research.



That's irrelevant and a strawman.

There are research studies on historical data of religions and atheism. The data is clear. And based on that data, statistical modelling has given future predictions of where its all going.

If you wish I can give you those studies.

That's OK, but the differentiation between looking up a stat and doing research for stat development is clear, as was the example given to illustrate the point. I looked up a stat, stated the findings, and suggested I view research differently than you would - apparently. Research is research referencing research is different.

 

[Balthazzar]

To be fair:

To be fair - there is context unattached in the small bit quoted. That tactic isn't uncommon either. To be clear, I formed a question ??? suggested I didn't know who was responsible for Roman colloseum type cage rattling, and went further to suggest that few if any are exempt, hence the Wiccan, pagan, etc. portion of my point. To be even clearer still, most atheist disagree with religion as well as the concept of God. Most of whom are clear about this without apology or regret. The attacked are the attackers who's cages are rattled by ??? I have no idea. Did you comprehend this post, or will I need to reiterate?

 

[Truth in love]

Mind elaborating a bit?

It take a bit to get to it, but I think he hits the nail on the head.