Christian-Muslim Episcopalian Priest

[spiritually inclined]

Religion is definitely changing.....

Christian-Muslim Priest

James

 

[TashaN]

Well, i heard many people who started like that then ended up believing in one of the religions. But i really don't know about this case in general. Anyway, i think she should be free to practice whatever her heart is moved to.

 

[spiritually inclined]

Anyway, i think she should be free to practice whatever her heart is moved to.

Me, too. I don't know that Christianity and Islam are reconcilable in a literal sense, but if she draws truth from both sources I don't see why she shouldn't be able to pray Islamic prayers and read the Koran, too. Lots of people draw inspiration from various sources. I think that's what she's doing.

James

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

I too believe we could all do well to learn from one another's religion. Yet, that does not mean the sacrifice of the integrity of our own.

I myself learned much from Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta before my conversion back to Christianity. In a sense, I still carry these traditions in my heart, despite that my beliefs are quite different today.

Muslims and Christians can respect one another, but one can not be both a Muslim and a Christian at the same time. This is as plain as the sun in the sky.

Religious syncretism like this will be the death of religion.

 

[YmirGF]

Religious syncretism like this will be the death of religion.

I agree. Unlike Christianity, you cannot really "cherry pick" what you wish from Islam. It doesn't work that way. While her bishop might find it "exciting" I deem it as disrespectful to both Christianity and Islam to claim to follow both paths. My guess is that, if she is sincere, she will eventually drop one or the other.

 

[spiritually inclined]

Yet, that does not mean the sacrifice of the integrity of our own.

How is she sacrificing integrity? She has both Christian and Muslim devotions.

Religious syncretism like this will be the death of religion.

History shows otherwise. Christians have taken A LOT from the pagans.

James

 

[spiritually inclined]

I agree. Unlike Christianity, you cannot really "cherry pick" what you wish from Islam. It doesn't work that way. While her bishop might find it "exciting" I deem it as disrespectful to both Christianity and Islam to claim to follow both paths. My guess is that, if she is sincere, she will eventually drop one or the other.

If the religions are interpreted in a rigid way, they are not compatible. However, there are many that do not consider their religions literal or infallible. That is why some people can be comfortable with religious elements from various traditions.

James

 

[a_student]

If the religions are interpreted in a rigid way, they are not compatible. However, there are many that do not consider their religions literal or infallible. That is why some people can be comfortable with religious elements from various traditions.

James

But the problem here is that she is choosing 2 very distinct paths. Where Christianity and Islam have a lot of similarities, they differ in the most important way: their basic belief. I believe one can be a Christian and follow some Islamic teachings or vice versa, but it is impossible to be both. What are her feelings about Jesus Christ? If she believes he is the son of G-d, she is a Christian, if she believes he is not the son of G-d, she is Muslim. It's that simple. It sounds to me like she is a Christian who is in the process of converting to Islam. I know a lot of Christians who converted to Islam and they all say the hardest concept for them to fathom was the Islamic understanding of Jesus.

 

[spiritually inclined]

What are her feelings about Jesus Christ? If she believes he is the son of G-d, she is a Christian, if she believes he is not the son of G-d, she is Muslim. It's that simple.

But it isn't that simple. There are both Muslims and Christians who interpret their religions differently. Some Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in that his life showed that he was a child of God, devoted to the will of God. In that sense, they say, others are the sons and daughters of God as well. For some Muslims with Christian leanings (or vice versa) this is compatible with the idea that Jesus wasn't the Son of God in a literal sense.

Other conflicting theology becomes less important when rigid interpretations are laid to rest and a person begins to relate to Christianity and Islam in a personal way. The different religious traditions become not infallible truth, but a source of truth.

James

 

[a_student]

There are both Muslims and Christians who interpret their religions differently. Some Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in that his life showed that he was a child of God, devoted to the will of God. In that sense, they say, others are the sons and daughters of God as well. For some Muslims with Christian leanings (or vice versa) this is compatible with the idea that Jesus wasn't the Son of God in a literal sense.

But that is what makes the two religions one or the other. I know lots of Muslims and if you ask any of them about G-d having a son, literal or even figurative, they will give you an emphatic NO! This is the one question that will always separate a Christian from a Muslim: Who is Jesus Christ? The answer will disagree with the fundamental teachings of at least one of the two.

 

[gnomon]

Religious syncretism like this will be the death of religion.

Really.

It seems to be a process that current, long standing traditional religions went through in the past. While it may signal an end to certain traditional philosophies it doesn't mean the end. I'm sure the Bretons thought as much when Vortigen laid eyes on a certain Saxon pagan.

Okay, that didn't make sense. But I don't think that even if someone tries to combine what is accepted by some as two different religions that this spells the end of religion.

 

[a_student]

I don't think that even if someone tries to combine what is accepted by some as two different religions that this spells the end of religion.

I think he means what you said, the end of that particular religion. I heard a Muslim Imam say that "once you add something to the religion of Islam, you are no longer practicing Islam." In essence, you are practicing something else that may have spawned from the original, but it is not, in fact that original practice.

 

[gnomon]

I think he means what you said, the end of that particular religion. I heard a Muslim Imam say that "once you add something to the religion of Islam, you are no longer practicing Islam." In essence, you are practicing something else that may have spawned from the original, but it is not, in fact that original practice.

Got ya. I thought I might have misunderstood.

But at least I got to mention Vortigen no matter how obscure he is and how irrelevant to this thread.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

I mean that if enough people start ripping beliefs that strike them on the emotional level out of the systematic theology or philosophy in which alone those beliefs are coherent, religion itself will gradually become a set of incoherent superstitions or emotionalized rhetoric.

As an example, I can't tell you how many people I know who readily believe in karma but have not put any thought whatsoever into whether or not re-incarnation might be true. The concept of karma demands resolution in re-incarnation or rebirth.

This kind of indifference to the internal logic of a given religious tradition, in my honest opinion, threatens the integrity of all religions and risks turning them into mere individual opinions and intuitions without the ability to shape culture or enliven society.

 

[Father Heathen]

Religious syncretism like this will be the death of religion.

How? That's how most of the religions were born (including yours). I don't exactly see the Bahai faith bringing all of the other abrahamic religions to their knees.

The concept of karma demands resolution in re-incarnation or rebirth.

No, it doesn't.

 

[spiritually inclined]

I mean that if enough people start ripping beliefs that strike them on the emotional level out of the systematic theology or philosophy in which alone those beliefs are coherent, religion itself will gradually become a set of incoherent superstitions or emotionalized rhetoric.

It is true that rigid theology will contradict other forms of theology. Not everyone, however, views theology with dogmatic eyes. People come to their own understandings while taking guidance -- not dictations -- from their traditions. At least, that's how it happens in more laid back churches.

As for religions turning into "incoherent superstitions or emotionalized rhetoric", a lot of them already are, and I'm not just talking about the liberals. Orthodox religion has a lot of that crap in it.

Religious syncretism is not going to kill religion. That is how the Christian religion was born. The Unitarian Universalist Association, besides the Christian religion, is probably one of the most syncretistic religions of all. It is a religion that does manage to shape minds, spiritual communities, and definitely politics. They are bound together not by common beliefs or creeds, but by a common agreement to affirm certain moral principles.

James

 

[TashaN]

I would like to add that, some people don't see religions as which camp they should belong to or something, but they see it more as seeking spiritual guidance for themselves as "individuals" regradless of what society might try to impose on them.

I think this Priest was brave enough to decleare her beliefs, because even if other cases exited, they will be highly discouraged from doing so, if not being decleared and labled as the *enemy of God* by some religious figures who feel that this might destroy the *image* of the church, in the eyes of those who belong to it. Some people will even go so far and think of those who declear their adherents to two faiths as a "threat".

 

[Quiddity]

Religious syncretism is not going to kill religion. That is how the Christian religion was born. The Unitarian Universalist Association, besides the Christian religion, is probably one of the most syncretistic religions of all. It is a religion that does manage to shape minds, spiritual communities, and definitely politics. They are bound together not by common beliefs or creeds, but by a common agreement to affirm certain moral principles.

Don't confuse influences and movements such as Arianism, Manichaeism, Valentianism, etc. to the religious syncretism you see now. Whatever perceived syncretism of early times can be seen to have always been opposed via a council or a letter by an orthodox clergy. It would be a mistake to view early Christianity as a fluid entity with no way to find form. From it’s infancy in the book of Acts one can read about one of the earliest movements (Judaizers, who could be easily seen as the arch-nemesis of Marcionites) that was quite a strong force and yet the early church came to solution to it (thorough dialogue in a Council). They always fought against any change in dogma, while refining its own definitions and further clarifying realities from within and outside its walls.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

The concept of karma demands resolution in re-incarnation or rebirth.

No, it doesn't

There is a minor qualification: unless you believe that every bad or good thing someone does in their lifetime will be repaid to them in their lifetime. If one holds that opinion, then rebirth is not required.

However, I don't think anyone believes that. Clearly good people die in injustice while evil ones die wealthy and happy. Thus, if one is going to be true to the concept of karma, another state after one's current life is demanded where those actions can work themselves out.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

how? That's how most of the religions were born (including yours). I don't exactly see the Bahai faith bringing all of the other abrahamic religions to their knees.

Of course every religion engages in a certain dialogue with surrounding traditions and philosophies and that there is a certain exchange between them (ie. I know "transubstantiation" is not in the Pauline letters nor was Aristotle an apostle), I am not unaware.

However, whenever religions or philosophies do happen to "take from one another" it still minds the logic internal to their religion. Thus a Christian could certainly benefit from learning about Muslim spirituality: I would imagine that the common ground in Abrahamic monotheism would lead to many commonalities and that the piety of Islamic prayers could inspire many faithful Christians. Yet simply learning from Muslim prayers or texts would by no means make a Christian a Muslim as well. People can only mean by this some kind of sentiment such as "when you get right down to it the similarities are more important than the differences" or that "when you really look at it from this way, they are two paths to the same goal".

Of course when you say the latter, and when you as a Christian deny that Jesus is the central and definitive revelation of God to humankind, or deny the same of the Qu'ran as a Muslim, you really have left those faiths behind and started an experiment, and religion, of your own.

By saying that she is both Muslim and Christian, this woman has actually declared herself to be neither.