Christian oppression / persecution in the US

[GardenLady]

I have heard some Americans--some protestants of various flavors, some Catholic--claim that they are oppressed or persecuted in the US. So I'd like to hear from people what this means to them, because I don't see it. This came up again in conversation recently when an acquaintance (the sister of a friend) claimed that Catholics are being persecuted in the US.

[Disclosure: I am a Christian theist, a member of a Lutheran congregation.]

So.... How are you oppressed/persecuted?

Has anyone forbidden you to pray in your home, another private home, on a street corner, or say grace at the table in a restaurant?

Has anyone prevented you from reading the Bible?

Has anyone prevented you from passing on your faith to your children?

Has anyone prevented you attending church services? (That is, *other than* public safety restrictions during a global pandemic that applied to many organizations and not just churches. Our parish was long closed to in-person worship; thank the Lord for the internet.)

So... how are you oppressed/persecuted?

 

[Brickjectivity]

So... how are you oppressed/persecuted?

This comes across as possible rumor. Whom are you speaking of? Who is saying they are persecuted? Is it a friend of yours. Is it an article you have read?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

This comes across as possible rumor. Whom are you speaking of? Who is saying they are persecuted? Is it a friend of yours. Is it an article you have read?

I just read it a few hours ago here on RF. Somebody wrote that secularism can be pretty oppressive for true believers.

Isn't the argument that Happy Holidays constitutes a war on Christianity? That's an implicit claim of persecution.

The letters to the Freedom From Religion Foundation from theists are almost uniformly a grievance against what the FFRF does, which is essentially limiting religion to the private space, such as suing because public school coaches are leading teams in prayer before games, or putting up the Ten Commandments in school. They consider that persecution.

The persecution card is played frequently.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I just read it a few hours ago here on RF. Somebody wrote that secularism can be pretty oppressive for true believers.

Isn't the argument that Happy Holidays constitutes a war on Christianity? That's an implicit claim of persecution.

The letters to the Freedom From Religion Foundation from theists are almost uniformly a grievance against what the FFRF does, which is essentially limiting religion to the private space, such as suing because public school coaches are leading teams in prayer before games, or putting up the Ten Commandments in school. They consider that persecution.

The persecution card is played frequently.

It definitely is. That’s why I joined FFRF. I applaud what they’re doing.

All of the persecution that I have witnessed in US has been directed at “other people” by Christians. Perhaps it’s different in the rest of the world.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I have heard some Americans--some protestants of various flavors, some Catholic--claim that they are oppressed or persecuted in the US. So I'd like to hear from people what this means to them, because I don't see it. This came up again in conversation recently when an acquaintance (the sister of a friend) claimed that Catholics are being persecuted in the US.

[Disclosure: I am a Christian theist, a member of a Lutheran congregation.]

So.... How are you oppressed/persecuted?

Has anyone forbidden you to pray in your home, another private home, on a street corner, or say grace at the table in a restaurant?

Has anyone prevented you from reading the Bible?

Has anyone prevented you from passing on your faith to your children?

Has anyone prevented you attending church services? (That is, *other than* public safety restrictions during a global pandemic that applied to many organizations and not just churches. Our parish was long closed to in-person worship; thank the Lord for the internet.)

So... how are you oppressed/persecuted?

In the past, the US has gone against the Constitution and favored Christianity. Now that we are trying to do away with that, they feel oppressed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In the past, the US has gone against the Constitution and favored Christianity. Now that we are trying to do away with that, they feel oppressed.

Probably from stuff like this.....


California Family Fined for Bible Study in Home

 

[Valjean]

When you're used to respect, deference, or legal exceptionalism, withdrawal seems disrespectful, annoying, or even oppressive to true believers. They don't feel special anymore.
Equality's a b**ch.

 

[Nakosis]

I have heard some Americans--some protestants of various flavors, some Catholic--claim that they are oppressed or persecuted in the US. So I'd like to hear from people what this means to them, because I don't see it. This came up again in conversation recently when an acquaintance (the sister of a friend) claimed that Catholics are being persecuted in the US.

[Disclosure: I am a Christian theist, a member of a Lutheran congregation.]

So.... How are you oppressed/persecuted?

Has anyone forbidden you to pray in your home, another private home, on a street corner, or say grace at the table in a restaurant?

Has anyone prevented you from reading the Bible?

Has anyone prevented you from passing on your faith to your children?

Has anyone prevented you attending church services? (That is, *other than* public safety restrictions during a global pandemic that applied to many organizations and not just churches. Our parish was long closed to in-person worship; thank the Lord for the internet.)

So... how are you oppressed/persecuted?

Well you can't stone a witch per the bible for example.
I'd guess having a preference to believe in creation is oppressed in public schools.
Public schools have prevented the Bible from being brought/read on school grounds.

 

[pearl]

This came up again in conversation recently when an acquaintance (the sister of a friend) claimed that Catholics are being persecuted in the US.

The Catholic Church in the USA has always been considered by Protestants a Church of immigrants, and its true we are. Not until 1960 was a Catholic elected president. But its the birth of Protestant Fundamentalism, an American movement, that makes it their duty to attempt destruction of the Church.

 

[GardenLady]

This comes across as possible rumor. Whom are you speaking of? Who is saying they are persecuted? Is it a friend of yours. Is it an article you have read?

This is something I have heard from multiple sources, first hand, second hand, and in articles. And yes, here on RF.

 

[GardenLady]

Probably from stuff like this.....


California Family Fined for Bible Study in Home

So the question is, would someone who is regularly having 40 to 50 people in their home for a non-religious reason face the same sanctions? Are they being fined due to the religious nature or due to the zoning violation?

 

[Revoltingest]

In the past, the US has gone against the Constitution and favored Christianity. Now that we are trying to do away with that, they feel oppressed.

Is it "oppression" to deny a group the right to oppress others?
What if their faith commands that they rule all others?
This would be interfering with expression of religion.

Disclaimer:
I'm speaking generally, & not about any particular religion.
So if you feel your religion is attacked, don't dispair.
It's about some other religions.

 

[Brickjectivity]

This is something I have heard from multiple sources, first hand, second hand, and in articles. And yes, here on RF.

I grew up evangelical charismatic non-denominational, and I know people. Some do worry about political oppression. For example someone I know thought that when the Covid19 restrictions came they were an attack on religious liberty in my country (USA). Churches were closed or had limitations placed on them. Here is an article in the Atlantic which kicks around the question of why evangelicals worry about this, and here is an abstract from the article:

"In the United States, evangelical values have often been in tension with public policy and cultural mores, especially in the last several years; this includes recent debates over contraceptives coverage, abortion rights, and the rise of same-sex marriage. Some Christians anticipate major restrictions to religious liberty in the future as a result of these tensions, a concern that is not unfounded. But in anticipating such restrictions, it is easy to imagine, wrongly, that they are already here."

--Why Do Evangelicals Have a Persecution Complex?​

*********
My personal opinion is that this is almost entirely the result of a preacher-pastor/congregation model of church. That is, I think, why. I don't blame it on theology or on rumors or anything else. Its just very convenient for the minister to frighten their congregation and difficult not to. Imagine attending sermons weekly or more -- say 3 times a week. It easily gets boring, and you start to wonder if you really need more than one sermon a year. This places the minister into a difficult position, since they are selected mostly based on their ability to preach. I think it introduces a complicated problem -- the need for the minister to justify their job. This leads to the convenient scarecrow style of preaching, endless scarecrows brought up in speeches across this land. Often these take the form of sideways criticisms of other ministries, but the point I hope to make is that the minister is pressured to practice scaring the congregation. Evangelical church people including baptists tell me that going to church is worship, that listening to sermons is worship, that singing to God is worship. God wants to hear them sing. God wants them to listen to sermons. God wants them to go to church often. In fact they think this, so they are nailed tight to their seats, listening to scarecrow preaching on a weekly basis or sometimes a multiple of it. That's what I think....but the Atlantic article is pretty good.

 

[GardenLady]

But its the birth of Protestant Fundamentalism, an American movement, that makes it their duty to attempt destruction of the Church.

Which is ironic given that evangelicals and catholics make common cause on the issue of abortion.

My father (New England Irish Catholic) was in grad school at the Univ. of Georgia circa 1950 on the GI bill (WWII vet). He said the only thing more disadvantageous than being black in GA at that time, was being catholic. Since I grew up in a part of Maryland where you can't swing a stick without hitting a catholic, I haven't see that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So the question is, would someone who is regularly having 40 to 50 people in their home for a non-religious reason face the same sanctions? Are they being fined due to the religious nature or due to the zoning violation?

I would say zoning plays a significant role.

I think the persecution complex arises from incidents where a general law or ordinance conflicts with religious activities themselves and people viewing it as being barred from practicing their religion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I have heard some Americans--some protestants of various flavors, some Catholic--claim that they are oppressed or persecuted in the US. So I'd like to hear from people what this means to them, because I don't see it. This came up again in conversation recently when an acquaintance (the sister of a friend) claimed that Catholics are being persecuted in the US.

I don't see it either. You go to China, you find oppressed Chrisitans thrown in jail. You hear about churches being demolished in Egypt and Iraq. Christians ARE persecuted around the world, but not here in the US. Here in the US we simply have a lot of big babies who don't like it that their numbers are waning.

 

[GardenLady]

@Brickjectivity, our parish church was closed much longer than some others in our area, by choice of the pastors and church council. The pastors and staff were quite pro-active in setting up on-line services on Sundays and Wednesday evenings. They also moved adult and child Sunday school online as well. While I have heard my fellow parishioners remark on missing in-person services and communion, I never heard complaints of persecution.

At this time, we can attend services in person on Sunday (with advance reservation, masked, and with limit on capacity), but the services are still "hybrid" and streamed online also. AFAIK, our state & county do not restrict church attendance at all now and have not for some time. This is the decision of our pastors and council for the well-being of our members.

 

[pearl]

He said the only thing more disadvantageous than being black in GA at that time, was being catholic.

Or a Jew. So who do you think made up the KKK? Its just not as in the open as it was. So it would no longer be defined as persecution but more non acceptance by others. Because Evangelicals have common ground on abortion to their advantage its more like the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[metis]

So.... How are you oppressed/persecuted?

Frankly, only by those who have a staunch anti-Catholic bias, and we see a fair number of them here at RF. There's a difference between having a different opinion and denomination, but it's quite another to badmouth and blame the Catholic Church for just about anything or everything.

We also have seen numerous over-the-top barbs against the Muslim community, and I feel for them as well

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So who do you think made up the KKK?

White anglo-saxon protestants.