'Christian'

[paarsurrey]

Then you agree that whether Islam is the default doesn’t matter?

I believe Islam is the default position for the human race.
No offense intended to any person, this is what I sincerely believe, please.
Regards

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well if you look only at the Catholic church and other Christians groups like it; then of course it won't seem very Jewish. But if you saw the book of Acts church then it would seem pretty Jewish.

As for translations that's another issue. Obviously it's best to know the Hebrew, the Greek etc.

You say Judaism doesn't have human sacrifice, but as I pointed out Abraham was tested to sacrifice Isaac. And Jephthah did sacrifice his daughter because of a vow he made.

When David repented of his sins(committing adultery, having a man murdered) he found himself wanting to give a sacrifice but he realized there was no sacrifice that could atone for what he had done. He realized that the best he could do is repent and be sorry for his sins. He believed that God would cleanse him of sins but he didn't know how.

Psalm 51
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Jews who don't accept Jesus can't explain one thing. That is how come God required animal sacrifices to forgive small sins but just forgives big sins without any sacrifice? It seems unfair to the sheep and cows. Why did they die when God forgives greater sins no blood required? The answer is clear to me. It is because Jesus is the sacrifice for greater sins. This is why God forgives king David for adultery and murder. This is why any one can be forgiven.

Jesus is the "ram in the bush". The sacrifice that only God could provide because we have nothing to offer. This is why God says He blots out transgressions "for mine own sake". We have no sacrifice to offer. God gave the sacrifice Himself because He loves us.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Not only trinitarians worship Christ. As I pointed out we Oneness/Modalists do also. Yet we believe in only One person of God. Not "three in one" like the trinitarians teach.

That's interesting about the Mesopotamians. It actually seems similar to the Mayan ball game where the losing team was sacrificed. If you study the scriptures you find that God gave the 1st sacrifice which was when He killed animals to make coats of skin for Adam and Eve. This is symbolic of how God provides us with righteousness. Righteousness is a covering for our shame. From there we find that Abel gave sacrifice and so on and so forth. It's only natural that people would pervert the concept of sacrifice and make up evil games like this to serve their idols.

I knew it started with a M. Jesus was sacrificed, issac was not. Issac was showing Abraham obedience key--he stoped him.

Jesus was not stoped; it was planed. If christians were post jewish (in religion) they would worship god not jesus.

The jews got him killed over how he put himself in line with god.

Acts. You were either pagan, jew, or converted pagan. They didnt have choices without consequence. Evangilizing in biblical history is not at all peaceful. Going to different countries to spread the good news was not peaceful. Acts didnt end at the bible. We still have missionaries doing the same thing. Its in my own backyard.

I dont speak against people who disagree with me. Thats a total turn off in a conversation. Christians and bahai seem to do it. It distracts me. (In bold)

The christian faith is trinitarian in nature. Probably why JW call it christiondom. I can see why they compared it to babylonians. Dont know about methodists only trinitarian. Im more nontrinitarian if I chose. Thats just me.

Killing animals was not symbolic. If that were true, that would be the only practice not like older religions in the area were sacrifice is literal. Saying its symbolic is saying judaism has symbolic practices. People do till today kill animals to atone for sins. Animal rights association wasnt around then.

Sacrifice of animals atoned for sin. Sacrifice with issac was a lesson of obedience. Saints and prophets -sacrificed themselves- for their god.

Acually having a man killed as a sacrifice as an animal is not judaism at all. Its context.

That

Is barbaric

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Christ's sacrifice was once for all

Then there wouldn't need to be a Second Coming, would there?

Abraham, Issac, Ishmael and Jacob none of them ever mentioned that they were Jews. If yes, then please quote from them.

The poster said that "Jew" became a later label. Naturally Abe and fam wouldn't call themselves that.

Jews who don't accept Jesus can't explain one thing. That is how come God required animal sacrifices to forgive small sins but just forgives big sins without any sacrifice?

From the book I read about Judah in the time of Christ, apparently the Temple was burning stuff pretty much all the time. If sacrifices were just for the big stuff, the priests wouldn't eat as often.

If you study the scriptures you find that God gave the 1st sacrifice which was when He killed animals to make coats of skin for Adam and Eve.

Not to be too nitpicky, but where did it say He killed animals? This is a God who can poof up anything. Why not underwear?

Righteousness is a covering for our shame.

They had no reason to feel shame for being naked. God notes no one ever said it was a sin.

Clothes are a lot like "righteousness": you're still naked underneath but somehow people think God is an idiot.

The jews got him killed over how he put himself in line with god.

He was executed by the Romans for being a religious terrorist.

 

[74x12]

Not to be too nitpicky, but where did it say He killed animals? This is a God who can poof up anything. Why not underwear?

Well it doesn't but it does call them "coats of skin" so it's implied that an animal died. We believe this is where the concept of sacrifice originates.

They had no reason to feel shame for being naked. God notes no one ever said it was a sin.

Clothes are a lot like "righteousness": you're still naked underneath

Are you sure? Look at most of the other mammals, they have coats of fur or hair. We don't.

It's symbolic. We have shame because of sin. Righteousness covers the shame and comes by sacrifice.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

But covering a turd isn't going to make the floor any cleaner. That's my point.

 

[1213]

...
Any reason why 'Christian' is a dirty word to, well, Christians?

Bible seems to tell it was insult against disciples of Jesus:

When he found him, he brought him to Antioch, and for a whole year they were guests of the church and taught a large crowd. It was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

Anyway, disciple of Jesus is the more accurate and original name. And it is clearly defined in the Bible.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

 

[paarsurrey]

From what I know, they (like the word christiandom) don't want to associate themselves with Catholicism. They figure associating with a label somehow connected them to rituals of the church to which many denominational hate with a passion. Some just say they are "spiritual and not religious." It's a Protestantism way of separating oneself from the church.

Jesus claimed to be a Messiah a Jewish title, he never claimed to be a Christ which is a Greek/Hellenist word, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Jesus claimed to be a Messiah a Jewish title, he never claimed to be a Christ which is a Greek/Hellenist word, please. Right?

Regards

"Christ" is basically the Greek term for "messiah". It's a title meaning "anointed one". "Jesus" is also a Greek word, but you don't seem to have a problem with using that.

 

[paarsurrey]

"Christ" is basically the Greek term for "messiah". It's a title meaning "anointed one". "Jesus" is also a Greek word, but you don't seem to have a problem with using that.

That is how Paul used Christ instead of Messiah to convert the simple followers of Jesus to Hellenism and lest the Jews convert to it, please. Right?

Regards

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm late to the party but I have heard some people shy from the term Christian because they want to go the 'relationship, not religion' direction. They believe that 'Christian' as an identity has become watered down and passive. Like the 'Sunday Christian.' And that 'religion' is informal and inefficient to describe their experience. Kind of like the 'not a religion but a way of life' people.

As for the attempting to blur lines to Jewish roots, I think this has to do with a culture where original is (many times falsely) equated to authenticly true. Many Christians like the JW I grew up with believe Abraham believed the same things they do, in the same way, with the exception of having the experience of the messiah. So they truly believe they are more like Abraham than modern Jews are today, and coopt this insulting 'authentic Jew' identity. And while many Christians don't go quite that far they still believe tenants of their belief were always what was originally taught by God. Curious how many Christians, when told that Satan being a fallen angel in opposition to God was not part of Jewish belief would tell you 'yes it was. It always has been.'

 

[paarsurrey]

That is how Paul used "Christ" instead of "Messiah" to convert the simple followers of Jesus to Hellenism and lest the Jews convert to it, please. Right?

The Christianity people are following the Hellenist Paul instead of following Yeshua- the Jewish Messiah, and his teachings, one understands.
Right?

Regards

 

[Sand Dancer]

For a long while now I've noticed this trend of what are, honestly, Christians refusing to call themselves such. It's as though there's this aversion to the label 'Christian', when most of the people refusing to use the term are clearly Christians. I've seen,

'Bible believer'
'Jesus believer'
'Follower/Disciple of Jesus'
'Messianic'
'Completed Jew' [this one is also offensive]
'Biblist'

etc.

Any reason why 'Christian' is a dirty word to, well, Christians? I've not observed this in any other large faith group. Muslims call themselves Muslims, Jews call themselves Jews, Baha'is call themselves Baha'is.

Because it's a dirty word to non Christians. People get turned off when they hear that people are Christian, so they think they are making the religion more palatable by using better wording. Jesus follower would be good enough for me if they actually did it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Because it's a dirty word to non Christians.

Not to me, nor to any of the Jews I know.

People get turned off when they hear that people are Christian, so they think they are making the religion more palatable by using better wording.

If anything, I would think that they are appearing to be a bit ashamed and, perhaps, clever by half.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Not to me, nor to any of the Jews I know.


If anything, I would think that they are appearing to be a bit ashamed and, perhaps, clever by half.

Okay, maybe it's a dirty word to ex-Christians...

 

[Muffled]

For a long while now I've noticed this trend of what are, honestly, Christians refusing to call themselves such. It's as though there's this aversion to the label 'Christian', when most of the people refusing to use the term are clearly Christians. I've seen,

'Bible believer'
'Jesus believer'
'Follower/Disciple of Jesus'
'Messianic'
'Completed Jew' [this one is also offensive]
'Biblist'

etc.

Any reason why 'Christian' is a dirty word to, well, Christians? I've not observed this in any other large faith group. Muslims call themselves Muslims, Jews call themselves Jews, Baha'is call themselves Baha'is.

I believe it is due to ChrINOs, Christians in name only. I usually refer to myself as a born again Christian to make the distinction.

 

[Muffled]

The term implies that Jews are somehow incomplete and their faith is lacking. It is a disgusting term. Christianity split from Judaism thousands of years ago. They are two completely separate religions. I've never heard a Muslim call himself a 'Completed Christian'. Because it sounds stupid and wrong.

I don't believe the Jews who referred to it as a sect were thinking it was better Judaism.

I believe that is only true for Jews who are incomplete. I suspect the term is more often used by Jews who consider themselves Christian. In a sense Christians are incomplete as well because we are waiting to be clothed with eternal life.

I believe, although Jews might like to think that way, the basis of Christianity flows from a Jewish heritage.

I believe Muslims do not see Islam as proceeding from a Jewish heritage. I haven't met many converts and have never had a reason to ask about it.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Jesus claimed to be a Messiah a Jewish title, he never claimed to be a Christ which is a Greek/Hellenist word, please. Right?

Regards

Lots of people were Messiahs then. Religious leaders were deemed Messiahs. If three out of four gospels don't show Jesus showcasing himself, I have to think he did not see himself as a god. A messiah, maybe. A teacher, definitely.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I believe it can be said that most Roman Catholics are Christian in name only.

Sadly, many Catholics and Protestants are.

 

[metis]

I believe it can be said that most Roman Catholics are Christian in name only.

Oh really, and how did you supposedly count them?

I guess one could say the same about you since you are so willing to judge others in defiance of Jesus' teaching us to not do as such.

 

[paarsurrey]

That is how Paul used Christ instead of Messiah to convert the simple followers of Jesus to Hellenism and lest the Jews convert to it, please. Right?

Since the Hellenist-Paul, I gather, faked a vision for this purpose, therefore, Paul merits to be considered the seed of Anti-Christ or Anti-Messiah, as I understand. Right?

Regards