-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christianity: Define Christian
- Thread starter IceFire
- Start date
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Generally it is accepted that a Christian is someone who believes in the Nicene Creed:
We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
I think the Romans called the Christians by that name. It loosely means they were in the nature of Jesus.
We know what human nature is, well Jesus perfected a process that incorporates another nature that is gentle and from what I've experienced incomprehensible to the aggressive predatory human mind and how it works on and provokes the emmotional and even ordinary mental responses.
Of course these can eventually lead to actions.
The people at the time who where practicing the cleaning or purifying of themselves called their sect "The followers of the Way".
It bares not the remotest similarity to todays "Christianity"
Tradition and handed down belief make up a big part of their so called worship.
The first "Followers of the Way" were practising, in modern talk, a physiological brain chemisty change that todays doctors or medical sciences would have a pill to stop happening.
The Romans didn't have a pill but they had the arena.
I had ocassion to visit a friend in a mental hospital and he and some of the other patients there had some chemistry changes that definitely gave them unusual powers.
My friends problem was regarded as a family inherited hormonal imbalance. He lived at my place for at least 2 months and I learnt a lot about power and what can happen although science says it can't.
It got too much for me and my family and he had to go, It was a sad time, and a sad situation for him because although he wasn't violent he wasn't in control.
I could write for some time on the process involved in modern Cristianity. The Book is right but the religion has been developed by intellectuals who have siezed an opportunity amongst the simple minded. It amazes me how many people sit and listen.
Then at least the bible has got through. There was a time when I needed resurrance that I wasn't being deluded. But it is all written there amongst the many words for all to see.
We know what human nature is, well Jesus perfected a process that incorporates another nature that is gentle and from what I've experienced incomprehensible to the aggressive predatory human mind and how it works on and provokes the emmotional and even ordinary mental responses.
Of course these can eventually lead to actions.
The people at the time who where practicing the cleaning or purifying of themselves called their sect "The followers of the Way".
It bares not the remotest similarity to todays "Christianity"
Tradition and handed down belief make up a big part of their so called worship.
The first "Followers of the Way" were practising, in modern talk, a physiological brain chemisty change that todays doctors or medical sciences would have a pill to stop happening.
The Romans didn't have a pill but they had the arena.
I had ocassion to visit a friend in a mental hospital and he and some of the other patients there had some chemistry changes that definitely gave them unusual powers.
My friends problem was regarded as a family inherited hormonal imbalance. He lived at my place for at least 2 months and I learnt a lot about power and what can happen although science says it can't.
It got too much for me and my family and he had to go, It was a sad time, and a sad situation for him because although he wasn't violent he wasn't in control.
I could write for some time on the process involved in modern Cristianity. The Book is right but the religion has been developed by intellectuals who have siezed an opportunity amongst the simple minded. It amazes me how many people sit and listen.
Then at least the bible has got through. There was a time when I needed resurrance that I wasn't being deluded. But it is all written there amongst the many words for all to see.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Hello all!,
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
In this day and age, many Christians do not believe in the Trinity and reject the line of the creed that refers to the Holy Spirit as the Lord and Giver of Life and is worshipped and glorified.
Many of today's Christians also do not believe in the need for a formal church setting. The church of today is often no more than a group of commited followers of Christ meeting together for fellowship and worship, and so the one holy catholic and apostolic Church is rejected.
The "reformation" ideas of sola fide and sola scriptura replace We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins because many of today's Christians do not believe baptism has a place in salvation.
Hope this helps.
Peace,
Scott
I would have to agree with Maize but I would have to remove:
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
In this day and age, many Christians do not believe in the Trinity and reject the line of the creed that refers to the Holy Spirit as the Lord and Giver of Life and is worshipped and glorified.
Many of today's Christians also do not believe in the need for a formal church setting. The church of today is often no more than a group of commited followers of Christ meeting together for fellowship and worship, and so the one holy catholic and apostolic Church is rejected.
The "reformation" ideas of sola fide and sola scriptura replace We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins because many of today's Christians do not believe baptism has a place in salvation.
Hope this helps.
Peace,
Scott
Apart from the creeds, what beliefs constitute a Christian? Is belief in Jesus' miraculous virgin birth a must? (The archbishop of the Church of Sweden doesn't think so.) Original sin? (The Eastern churches don't believe in it like Roman Catholics do.) The resurrection? The salvaging effects of the vicarious suffering?
In Sweden, the Apostolic creed was the normal one, at least in those days that I was a frequent churchgoer; it is slightly simpler than Nicenum. In Sweden, "one holy and common ['catholic' translated]" is there in the Nicene creed, "apostolic" is there (the church of Sweden claims to propagate the apostolic succession!), but not the Apostolic creed, the baptism bit is there in the Nicenum but not in Apostolicum. "Our" Nicenum keeps the Spirit part intact, while the Apostolicum just mentions the belief in him/it.
An equally important question is, in what mustn't a Christian believe?
Can a Christian believe in reincarnation?
Can a Christian believe that there are other gods? (The Gnostics thought so, and they considered Catholics heretics.)
Any ideas on this question?
In Sweden, the Apostolic creed was the normal one, at least in those days that I was a frequent churchgoer; it is slightly simpler than Nicenum. In Sweden, "one holy and common ['catholic' translated]" is there in the Nicene creed, "apostolic" is there (the church of Sweden claims to propagate the apostolic succession!), but not the Apostolic creed, the baptism bit is there in the Nicenum but not in Apostolicum. "Our" Nicenum keeps the Spirit part intact, while the Apostolicum just mentions the belief in him/it.
An equally important question is, in what mustn't a Christian believe?
Can a Christian believe in reincarnation?
Can a Christian believe that there are other gods? (The Gnostics thought so, and they considered Catholics heretics.)
Any ideas on this question?
...is that too many people are going off of pre-conceived notions of what Christianity is about. I'm not going to give you my opinion. I'm going to say what the bible says.
1) The bible tells us about the trinity as being true. It does not mean there are three Gods to be worshipped. Jesus was a man with the divine spirit of God who came to give us eternal life by being the ultimate & final sacrifice.
2) The Holy Spirit is a part of God that dwells inside of us when we accept the gift of salvation. God's original purpose was to dwell with us but because of sin, the Holy Spirit was taken away from Adam and therefore away from us all.
3) The only way to receive eternal life is to believe that Jesus was more than just a prophet. You must believe that he was the son of God, that he died for our sins, and that he rose from the grave.
That is what being a christian is about. Nothing more, nothing less. The numerous denominations came about because of differences in translation and understanding of the word of God.
2 Peter 1:20 - We are told that there is no personal(private) interpretation of the word.
1) The bible tells us about the trinity as being true. It does not mean there are three Gods to be worshipped. Jesus was a man with the divine spirit of God who came to give us eternal life by being the ultimate & final sacrifice.
2) The Holy Spirit is a part of God that dwells inside of us when we accept the gift of salvation. God's original purpose was to dwell with us but because of sin, the Holy Spirit was taken away from Adam and therefore away from us all.
3) The only way to receive eternal life is to believe that Jesus was more than just a prophet. You must believe that he was the son of God, that he died for our sins, and that he rose from the grave.
That is what being a christian is about. Nothing more, nothing less. The numerous denominations came about because of differences in translation and understanding of the word of God.
2 Peter 1:20 - We are told that there is no personal(private) interpretation of the word.
jay1_z,
You're giving your opinion - of what the Bible says. But the Bible is no help for this topic, because there is no definition of Christians in it, and even only four mentionings of the word "Christian".
This topic is no place to discuss the problems with the Trinity. Suffice it to say that there is no mentioning of "Trinity" or "Triune God" in the Bible.
Your point 3, however, is what I feel is the centre. A person who doesn't believe in salvation because of Jesus' death is no Christian to me.
Quoting 2 Peter is meaningless here. First, in all probability, the writer is a liar. Only a few reputable NT scholars defend the Petrine authorship of 2 Peter, which is believed to have been written by an anonymous churchman in Rome about 140-150 CE, and yet the author claims to have been present at the transfiguration etc. Second, the verse you refer to deals with scriptural prophecies only: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation."
On 2 Peter, I refer mainly to S.L. Harris: Understanding the Bible. I quote 2 Peter from the KJV, but other versions agree.
You're giving your opinion - of what the Bible says. But the Bible is no help for this topic, because there is no definition of Christians in it, and even only four mentionings of the word "Christian".
This topic is no place to discuss the problems with the Trinity. Suffice it to say that there is no mentioning of "Trinity" or "Triune God" in the Bible.
Your point 3, however, is what I feel is the centre. A person who doesn't believe in salvation because of Jesus' death is no Christian to me.
Quoting 2 Peter is meaningless here. First, in all probability, the writer is a liar. Only a few reputable NT scholars defend the Petrine authorship of 2 Peter, which is believed to have been written by an anonymous churchman in Rome about 140-150 CE, and yet the author claims to have been present at the transfiguration etc. Second, the verse you refer to deals with scriptural prophecies only: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation."
On 2 Peter, I refer mainly to S.L. Harris: Understanding the Bible. I quote 2 Peter from the KJV, but other versions agree.
I think the point is being missed that God is active and present and it may be religion to know how to come to that knowledge but it is possible.
Every person can come to that knowledge and then no other person would need to teach them.
The early sect called the way, demonstrated that after an induced initiating supernatural mind altering experience (receiving the Holy Spirit) the next steps were a process of coming into the knowledge of GOD in their own right.
It was the process that needed to be taught not all the human type intellectual discussion about religion, baptising etc which are the first steps only and even the listening that takes place is detrimental.
Faith comes by the word of God. This is energetically given by the spirit to help full belief of what is being said for the talkers benefit to lift the energy of the person.
The person progressively enters a higher realm that seperates him or her from the realm of the human mind.
To come to the knowledge of God. To know the Love of God.
To Know the fullness of Christ which passes understanding. (incomprehensible to the natural mind)
To present your body as a living sacrifice
talking (confess) out of the mouth while believing in the heart.
talk into salvation (healing) believe in the heart unto righteousness.
I have experienced this and I will say it is a little unnerving but no worse that climbing a mountain, parachuting, riding a bike down a hill, driving on the motorway amongst speeding trucks, heading out to have a swim in the surf.
Every person can come to that knowledge and then no other person would need to teach them.
The early sect called the way, demonstrated that after an induced initiating supernatural mind altering experience (receiving the Holy Spirit) the next steps were a process of coming into the knowledge of GOD in their own right.
It was the process that needed to be taught not all the human type intellectual discussion about religion, baptising etc which are the first steps only and even the listening that takes place is detrimental.
Faith comes by the word of God. This is energetically given by the spirit to help full belief of what is being said for the talkers benefit to lift the energy of the person.
The person progressively enters a higher realm that seperates him or her from the realm of the human mind.
To come to the knowledge of God. To know the Love of God.
To Know the fullness of Christ which passes understanding. (incomprehensible to the natural mind)
To present your body as a living sacrifice
talking (confess) out of the mouth while believing in the heart.
talk into salvation (healing) believe in the heart unto righteousness.
I have experienced this and I will say it is a little unnerving but no worse that climbing a mountain, parachuting, riding a bike down a hill, driving on the motorway amongst speeding trucks, heading out to have a swim in the surf.
I guess this is as good a place to start with this group. I am still learning how to do this forum so please bare with me. The question is not so difficult, A Christian is a person who follows the teaching of JESUS the CHRIST. More accuarately strives to follow HIS teachings and tennants.
Wilieha
Wilieha
I like that, but it is so simple that it gets complicated.
What about a devout Sikh who believes in one God, works honestly and takes care of the needy, or all other people who live in a a way fully corresponding to Jesus' teachings, but perhaps even haven't heard of him? What about beliefs that Jesus didn't teach, but aren't contradictory to his teachings? One earthly reincarnation is taught by the Bible, Jesus at least speaks of another life in heaven, but what if you believe in several reincarnations/rebirths?
And do you mean that you don't have to believe in, for example, Jesus' virgin birth? Please correct me if I have overlooked something, but I think that is no teaching of Jesus, but of some evangelists, Paul and others.
What about a devout Sikh who believes in one God, works honestly and takes care of the needy, or all other people who live in a a way fully corresponding to Jesus' teachings, but perhaps even haven't heard of him? What about beliefs that Jesus didn't teach, but aren't contradictory to his teachings? One earthly reincarnation is taught by the Bible, Jesus at least speaks of another life in heaven, but what if you believe in several reincarnations/rebirths?
And do you mean that you don't have to believe in, for example, Jesus' virgin birth? Please correct me if I have overlooked something, but I think that is no teaching of Jesus, but of some evangelists, Paul and others.
The statement I replied to was to define a Christian. That is what I answered. It is just that simple. We could talk for days on mans doctrine that has been added and accepted- right or wrong. Tradition does play a large part in the religion; as a matter of fact all religions. As to the virgin birth or even changing water into wine, Faith is Faith and does not require proof. Life is proof enough for me.
Wilieha
Wilieha
I did not mention proof. Faith is Faith, OK, but faith in what? Do I read you correctly that you think that it is not necessary for a Christian to believe in Jesus' supernatural conception? In that case, you and the archbishop of the Church of Sweden agree on that point.
The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?
Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?
And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)
Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)
Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.
The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?
Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?
And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)
Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)
Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 431
I did not mention proof. Faith is Faith, OK, but faith in what? Do I read you correctly that you think that it is not necessary for a Christian to believe in Jesus' supernatural conception? In that case, you and the archbishop of the Church of Sweden agree on that point.
The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?
Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?
And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)
Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)
Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 431
I did not mention proof. Faith is Faith, OK, but faith in what? Do I read you correctly that you think that it is not necessary for a Christian to believe in Jesus' supernatural conception? In that case, you and the archbishop of the Church of Sweden agree on that point.
The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?
Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?
And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)
Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)
Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.
I did not mention proof. Faith is Faith, OK, but faith in what? Do I read you correctly that you think that it is not necessary for a Christian to believe in Jesus' supernatural conception? In that case, you and the archbishop of the Church of Sweden agree on that point.
No I did not say nor do I question the virgin birth, I have no Idea How you got that from my reply this AM.
The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?
I am very familiar with the Nicene creed, its history and its use. It is the earliest attempt to organize and standardize Christianity by the government of the day. In other words it is man made. The result of the council of Niece circa 327 CE.
Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?
A person; Christian or not may believe anything He/She wants. In my view, one of the chief mysteries of our Faith is how the comunion elements turn to the Body and Blood of Christ.
And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)
NO.
Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)
NO.
Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.
I think your mind is working overtime and is complicating a very simple Fact.
Wilieha
No I did not say nor do I question the virgin birth, I have no Idea How you got that from my reply this AM.
The Nicene creed is used in Catholic churches, and sometimes in the Lutheran Church of Sweden (yes, the complete creed; virgin and filioque and apostolic and "one baptism for the remission of sins" and all). To satisfy a definition of a Christian, must a person believe in all of it?
I am very familiar with the Nicene creed, its history and its use. It is the earliest attempt to organize and standardize Christianity by the government of the day. In other words it is man made. The result of the council of Niece circa 327 CE.
Can a Christian believe that only bread and wine, but no flesh and blood, is present in the communion?
A person; Christian or not may believe anything He/She wants. In my view, one of the chief mysteries of our Faith is how the comunion elements turn to the Body and Blood of Christ.
And I repeat, do you think that a person can believe in reincarnation/rebirth and still be a Christian? (There are people who label themselves Christians and believe in reincarnation.)
NO.
Can a Christian believe in more gods than the Creator God, Jesus' father? (The Gnostics did. In the canonical Gospels, I find only one (1) reference mentioning "the only true God", John 17:3.)
NO.
Some of these questions may be unimportant to you personally, but in order to find out what defines a Christian, I think they are crucial.
I think your mind is working overtime and is complicating a very simple Fact.
Wilieha
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Here is MY definition of a Christian: anyone who has a desire to follow the teachings of Jesus, and wants to call themself 'Christian' is a Christian.
Maize said:
If a Christian is as you define, "Desire to follow the teachings of Jesus."
Why do they not follow those teachings?
Did Jesus celebrate his birthday?
Did Jesus go to the Catholic/Universal (Christian) church?
Did he teach Sabbath and Law nailed to the cross?
Did he not teach commandment keeping?
What Holy Days did he keep and teach?
Did he ever say "Go and sin no more"?
Was there ever a sacrifice for intentional sin?
Would he not quote from Issiah 29:13?
Wouldn't this be taking (putting on) the/a name of the Lord in Vain?
Just thinking in print!??
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Ronald, I gave my definition of a Christian to me. I have no inclination to defend it, especially not in a discussion forum. You disagree with my definition, fine. Let's hear your definition.
Christianity took the name. To me, it bears no resemblance to the source, Judism.
Paul says "Imitate me as I imitate Christ." Both, He and Jesus, were law keeping Jews. Paul says they should smell like Olives, but they bear no resemblance to an Olive Tree/Israel.
It is beyond my comprehension, They read the same Bible, written by Jews, for Jews. Coming out of the pipe is not Olive oil, a different substance. Go figure??
Paul says "Imitate me as I imitate Christ." Both, He and Jesus, were law keeping Jews. Paul says they should smell like Olives, but they bear no resemblance to an Olive Tree/Israel.
It is beyond my comprehension, They read the same Bible, written by Jews, for Jews. Coming out of the pipe is not Olive oil, a different substance. Go figure??
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Nice definition, Ronald.
Personally, I agree with Maize. CHRISTianity is about following the teachings of Jesus. As for the other stuff added by organized religion, although perhaps unecessary, what harm does it do? 'Christian' is a pretty broad term as it is. You can have your purists who reject all the flowery ritual and you can have your everyday practitioner who recognizes holy days etc. Both of these, however, have Jesus in common.
Personally, I agree with Maize. CHRISTianity is about following the teachings of Jesus. As for the other stuff added by organized religion, although perhaps unecessary, what harm does it do? 'Christian' is a pretty broad term as it is. You can have your purists who reject all the flowery ritual and you can have your everyday practitioner who recognizes holy days etc. Both of these, however, have Jesus in common.