Christianity: Humanism should come before theology

[angellous_evangellous]

I've said before that I think that Christianity is ethically bankrupt. The solution to this problem I think is to place humanism before Christian theology and morality in our thinking and especially our ethics (thinking - or unfortunately the lack of it - determines ethics).

A solid grounding in humanistic ideas is the foundation of ethics. If Christian pastors and theologians (and many of them do...) had a firm grounding in ideas such as human dignity, personal freedoms, responsibility, human worth, and integrity, we'd have less emphasis on bald meaningless proseltyzing which really does not add to the human experience and more on the enrichment and fullness of life.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

My contact with Anglican Ministers of both sexes suggests that we see this understanding very clearly in Jesus message.
The Anglican message is very much in the real world... though we have many academics very strong in theology... It is worship and human needs that are mostly emphasised in the churches work.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

My contact with Anglican Ministers of both sexes suggests that we see this understanding very clearly in Jesus message.

Except, possibly, the injunction against divorce. Divorce is a basic human right which Jesus denies, and Christians have historically (and contemporarily) applied this at great human cost.

 

[biomystic]

Jesus told the truth about divorce which that it messes with the family cohesion that was established through ritual commitment. Ask most any kid who's parents are going through a divorce and see if they think it's a good thing to split up the family unit. Not saying there are not times when this is absolutely necessary to avoid harm to children but for most divorces the real hidden victims are the children. And you know Jesus' words about harming children..

 

[Quagmire]

I agree A_E; I think there are way too many people arguing over the instruction manual and not enough bothering to turn on the appliances.

 

[EverChanging]

Jesus told the truth about divorce which that it messes with the family cohesion that was established through ritual commitment. Ask most any kid who's parents are going through a divorce and see if they think it's a good thing to split up the family unit. Not saying there are not times when this is absolutely necessary to avoid harm to children but for most divorces the real hidden victims are the children. And you know Jesus' words about harming children..

I suffered through a very traumatic childhood and wanted nothing more than for my mother to leave my father because he was abusive to all of us. She didn't do this until I was 14 years old. I understand that children can be victims of divorce, but the opposite situation occurs as well.

As for Jesus' words on the family, according to the Bible, he was actually very anti-family. He said that all who leave brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, and children will have a great reward. Wouldn't it be traumatic to the children if a good and loving father just left his family for some religious cause? How is this not like divorce?

 

[Smoke]

I suffered through a very traumatic childhood and wanted nothing more than for my mother to leave my father because he was abusive to all of us. She didn't do this until I was 14 years old. I understand that children can be victims of divorce, but the opposite situation occurs as well.

My cousin stayed with an abusive husband for more than twenty years "for the children." She didn't do them any favors. Both of her daughters married abusive husbands the first time out; it was what they knew.

 

[Xian Catalyst]

I've said before that I think that Christianity is ethically bankrupt. The solution to this problem I think is to place humanism before Christian theology and morality in our thinking and especially our ethics (thinking - or unfortunately the lack of it - determines ethics).

A solid grounding in humanistic ideas is the foundation of ethics. If Christian pastors and theologians (and many of them do...) had a firm grounding in ideas such as human dignity, personal freedoms, responsibility, human worth, and integrity, we'd have less emphasis on bald meaningless proseltyzing which really does not add to the human experience and more on the enrichment and fullness of life.

Well, that's sorta what the Bible teaches, at least its in the same direction you are pointing.

The Bible, the Christ,the Apostles, the Disciples teach how to live your life. Somewhere Christianity turned it into what you know. It's horridible.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, that's sorta what the Bible teaches, at least its in the same direction you are pointing.

The Bible, the Christ,the Apostles, the Disciples teach how to live your life. Somewhere Christianity turned it into what you know. It's horridible.

As horridible as it is, thanks for visiting an old thread.

 

[sarek]

Christ was a being of much higher order. Those who followed after were for the most part normal humans with all their good and bad sides. That tends to water down the true message and its application.

The only way for Christianity or indeed any religion to remain valid (or regain validity) is to reach back to its oldest sources and retrieve the true message from in between all the wiseacring and power playing.

 

[Xian Catalyst]

As horridible as it is, thanks for visiting an old thread.

SURE, and HEY we are neighbors!

 

[Xian Catalyst]

Christ was a being of much higher order. Those who followed after were for the most part normal humans with all their good and bad sides. That tends to water down the true message and its application.

The only way for Christianity or indeed any religion to remain valid (or regain validity) is to reach back to its oldest sources and retrieve the true message from in between all the wiseacring and power playing.

Well, it has reached back to it's oldest sources. That is the canonical bible.

The alleged "lost books" are hundreds of years later. Even atheist scholars admit to such.

And I'm curious, how do you discern that the Christ was a being of a "much higher order" when all you have to judge by is the same resources I have, and NONE OF THEM talk of such?

is this just some decision you arbitrarily decided should be so, and thus it is?

 

[Shiranui117]

Well, since the thread's already been rez'd...

A solid grounding in humanistic ideas is the foundation of ethics. If Christian pastors and theologians (and many of them do...) had a firm grounding in ideas such as human dignity, personal freedoms, responsibility, human worth, and integrity, we'd have less emphasis on bald meaningless proseltyzing which really does not add to the human experience and more on the enrichment and fullness of life.

I can agree with this in many ways--in fact, one of the best possible ways to evangelize and proselytize is to live the Christian life of love for one's neighbor and for God. If we Christians lived more often by love, then the issues you mentioned with Christianity would be nonexistent. But alas...

 

[Sand Dancer]

I've said before that I think that Christianity is ethically bankrupt. The solution to this problem I think is to place humanism before Christian theology and morality in our thinking and especially our ethics (thinking - or unfortunately the lack of it - determines ethics).

A solid grounding in humanistic ideas is the foundation of ethics. If Christian pastors and theologians (and many of them do...) had a firm grounding in ideas such as human dignity, personal freedoms, responsibility, human worth, and integrity, we'd have less emphasis on bald meaningless proseltyzing which really does not add to the human experience and more on the enrichment and fullness of life.

Sounds like liberal Christianity, which is alive and well on planet Earth.

 

[Xian Catalyst]

Sounds like liberal Christianity, which is alive and well on planet Earth.

It's actually UBER conservative. You are saved to be God's instruments for righteousness on earth. That means you need to live it and serve others.

I would add a side bar. Purely from a debate view, don't name your faith liberal theology.

2 reason.

In the eyes of the people you'd like to affect, you put yourself in a box you won't be able to battle out of. And from the inside the box will be concrete walls and the only way out is bashing your head on them.

If you label your belief long enough, you run the risk of starting to take pride in the label and defending it more than God.

Of course I don't claim to know or suspect you to be doing that. I'm just sayin'.... I debated through HS and college for the schools. I know a little bit about how your opening words can close all ears to what you are about to say.

Just be prepared with BIBLE for why you say what you say and defend the Bible, not the label.

 

[Spiffy]

I've said before that I think that Christianity is ethically bankrupt. The solution to this problem I think is to place humanism before Christian theology and morality in our thinking and especially our ethics (thinking - or unfortunately the lack of it - determines ethics).

How/why does a humanist view of ethics trump ethics derived from Christian theology? What are the primary differences? Care to elaborate a bit?

 

[TomD]

The solution to this problem I think is to place humanism before Christian theology and morality in our thinking and especially our ethics (thinking - or unfortunately the lack of it - determines ethics).

I would have thought that somewhat illogical to ask Christians to place a non-Christian systematic above their own. You might as well say Christians should place Buddha above Christ?

A solid grounding in humanistic ideas is the foundation of ethics.

I think 'humanistic ideas' and our understanding of the person is largely founded on, and derives from, Christian theology.

What many claim to be "enrichment and fullness of life" is simply doing whatever takes one's fancy ...

 

[RedDragon94]

I've said before that I think that Christianity is ethically bankrupt. The solution to this problem I think is to place humanism before Christian theology and morality in our thinking and especially our ethics (thinking - or unfortunately the lack of it - determines ethics).

A solid grounding in humanistic ideas is the foundation of ethics. If Christian pastors and theologians (and many of them do...) had a firm grounding in ideas such as human dignity, personal freedoms, responsibility, human worth, and integrity, we'd have less emphasis on bald meaningless proseltyzing which really does not add to the human experience and more on the enrichment and fullness of life.

I don't totally disagree with you, what's important is that we teach people to live theology. I think that the church is missing the point of teaching people to apply the Word of God. The idea is not to try and replace theology with something else but realize that whatever we try and replace theology with is in fact our theological disposition.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I've said before that I think that Christianity is ethically bankrupt. The solution to this problem I think is to place humanism before Christian theology and morality in our thinking and especially our ethics (thinking - or unfortunately the lack of it - determines ethics).

A solid grounding in humanistic ideas is the foundation of ethics. If Christian pastors and theologians (and many of them do...) had a firm grounding in ideas such as human dignity, personal freedoms, responsibility, human worth, and integrity, we'd have less emphasis on bald meaningless proseltyzing which really does not add to the human experience and more on the enrichment and fullness of life.

When I speak to skeptics, I find that my willingness--from the heart--to die for them, despite the fact that they would curse, mock and despise me, in a Spirit-led effort to honor them and to treat them as I'd like to be treated, is nowhere near ethically bankrupt.

Jesus and the gospel are as valid today, if not more, than they were back in the day. I agree with you that many marvelous works should come with a marvelous, proselytizing witness:

"...we were created to walk in works..." - Ephesians 2:10

 

[BilliardsBall]

Also, please be aware that the best of intentions and efforts in providing food, shelter, clothing, money, time, even self-sacrificing agape love, is neither salvific nor eternal apart from the gospel message and trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation.