Christianity Is Only Popular Because Of Its Idle Threats

[SkepticThinker]

You like to put words in my mouth, just speak for yourself.
Babies are not evil, yet God knew the point at which the culture they were born into and being raised in was so evil to be beyond hope or change. Those people were judged. The babies and children went straight to joy in the Presence of Jesus.

So God judged the adults in those cultures to be evil and then decided that the innocent babies were or would be evil too, based on the sins of their parents?
Sorry but what's moral about that, exactly?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It's been the dominant religion for a couple of thousand years (give or take) because it was primarily spread by force and threats.

The OP is spot on for my Dad. He died believing he was going to suffer in hell separated from the rest of his family for eternity, because he thought we'd be in Heaven. He wasn't a particularly bad person either. He was just told he was by members of my Uncle's church. He didn't experience this great healing and "hope for the hopeless" that you describe.

I'm sorry to hear this story about your dad, Skeptic Thinker. I was absolutely petrified of going to hell when I was still a Christian. I was afraid of dying and terrified of what God would do to me once he got his hands on me in hell. I was also afraid of him striking me dead at any moment. I remember hearing preachers and other Christians talking about God's love for humanity or how God loves me, but then I would hear sermons about an angry, jealous God who casts people into hell to be tortured in hellfire for all eternity because they disobeyed him and died without his forgiveness. I didn't experience great healing in my life while I was a Christian, and I certainly didn't feel any hope either. I didn't feel the peace and joy in my heart that other Christians talked about having in their lives because they had accepted Jesus and God had healed their broken lives. But when I think back now about being a Christian then, I think about how foolish I was to believe in God and have hope that he would help me heal from the abuse and trauma I suffered while growing up. He never lifted a finger to protect me or save me when I was growing up, so I don't know why I was hoping that he would heal me from the PTSD that I've been struggling with for the majority of my life. It was truly liberating for me when I finally let go of my faith.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm sorry to hear this story about your dad, Skeptic Thinker. I was absolutely petrified of going to hell when I was still a Christian. I was afraid of dying and terrified of what God would do to me once he got his hands on me in hell. I was also afraid of him striking me dead at any moment. I remember hearing preachers and other Christians talking about God's love for humanity or how God loves me, but then I would hear sermons about an angry, jealous God who casts people into hell to be tortured in hellfire for all eternity because they disobeyed him and died without his forgiveness.

Thank you very much. It still haunts me to this day, and I just wish I could have done something to assuage his fears. And I really wish my uncle hadn't taken him to his church.

I didn't experience great healing in my life while I was a Christian, and I certainly didn't feel any hope either. I didn't feel the peace and joy in my heart that other Christians talked about having in their lives because they had accepted Jesus and God had healed their broken lives. But when I think back now about being a Christian then, I think about how foolish I was to believe in God and have hope that he would help me heal from the abuse and trauma I suffered while growing up. He never lifted a finger to protect me or save me when I was growing up, so I don't know why I was hoping that he would heal me from the PTSD that I've been struggling with for the majority of my life. It was truly liberating for me when I finally let go of my faith.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I wouldn't say you were foolish, necessarily. It sounds like you were looking for some much-needed help that you weren't getting from any of the humans in your life, unfortunately.

I suffer from PTSD so I feel your pain. Cognitive behavioral therapy has really helped me to overcome it, to some extend and I'm functioning much, much better than I used to, though it's still a struggle sometimes. Not sure if you've given it a try, but I would highly recommend it.

 

[Sand Dancer]

This doctrine of hell is in the Bible. I take issue where it is taught in such a way there is manipulation used and fear tactics. I once went to a church Halloween event. It was a scare house where people jump out and scare you. I don't remember everything though .

But not in the OT. It's taken from Greek mythology and Zoastrianism. The Bible should be complementary, not contradictory.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Those people who O assume you are referring to in the OT account were judged for their completely wicked ways and culture.

Says the authors with nothing to back it up.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I do not consider missionary work to be charitable, but agree the salvation army seems to be a good group. I am non-affiliated, non-denominational. It saddens me that what could be uplifting turns into power struggles, triablism, group-think, authoritarian hierarchies. I do see quite a lot of hypocrisy within organized religious groups who believe they have more truth than others, or authority over others, or the only path to salvation. Anyone who believes their group is the only doorway to salvation is wrong in my opinion.

As long as you recognize you've shifted from "churches don't do good" to "churches argue doctrine" which they are supposed to do so that true and false doctrines are highlighted, the shepherds helping their fellow sheep.

I appreciate your willingness to see people at peace, but do you include Jesus Christ in "Anyone who believes their group is the only doorway to salvation is wrong in my opinion."?

Jesus said He is the way, truth and life (what Jews believed about the Torah)! Jesus was exclusivist in that sense.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No, the Bible depicts God dealing with people and cultures where they were at. There are plenty of behaviors humans have done or cultures have practiced throughout history, even in Israel, which are not in line with God’s will. Yet, He lets humans do their thing and face the consequences. If God were to intervene, stop and judge everything wrong humans did... everyone would have been judged and eliminated long ago.

So God is incompetent and negligent. Most sins in the Bible can be traced to His negligence. It’s like expecting a kid to pass a math test but the teacher rarely came to work and the school got death threats if they used a substitute teacher.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The Bible accounts are narratives of human behavior and activities, sinful or otherwise, at various time periods in history. That is not advocating, nor endorsing.

God has to accept cultural flaws but won’t do anything about that?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Yes, God is omniscient and omnipotent. That does not make God responsible for evil

I can never quite figure why people need to see God as a petulant snowflake.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

let God be true but every man a liar

So when men wrote that they were inspired by God…?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

God is not a liar. Those are your words. I am asking you to please stop saying that I believe that. You know you are being disingenuous and making a slanderous accusation about me or “my” thoughts.

I am not saying Christianity isn’t a huge religion. I am saying that if someone is a Christian or claims to be a Christian, then they should believe God’s words of the scriptures from which their faith understanding is derived from, words which Jesus also believed. Again, back to the point; many scientists do not deny the existence of God. They believe in a Creator because it is reasonable, not due to threats or fear, as implied by the OP.

Thank you. I do understand that the scientific method is based on the concept of testable hypothesis.

What if God tells me that the Bible is wrong?

 

[idea]

As long as you recognize you've shifted from "churches don't do good" to "churches argue doctrine" which they are supposed to do so that true and false doctrines are highlighted, the shepherds helping their fellow sheep.

I appreciate your willingness to see people at peace, but do you include Jesus Christ in "Anyone who believes their group is the only doorway to salvation is wrong in my opinion."?

Jesus said He is the way, truth and life (what Jews believed about the Torah)! Jesus was exclusivist in that sense.

I'm sticking with "churches don't do good" opinion. The moment anyone claims "authority" over another the values of equally yoked, love, respect, humility - those all cease to exist in organized religions. Jesus was anti-establishment, and I am too , flip over those temple tables .

Not revealed by flesh and blood" is the key. No more apostles, no more prophets, no more middlemen, no more flesh and blood. Cursed are they who rely on arms of flesh and blood, cursed are they who rely on other people. (and cursed are those who think others should rely on them)

Self reliance is the rock. No borrowed light. No leaders. Be your own light without being told by others what to do. The kingdom of God is within - NOT following any church leaders, they are not "leaders", they are corrupt biased prideful, fallen, power-hungry misled natural men.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm sticking with "churches don't do good" opinion. The moment anyone claims "authority" over another the values of equally yoked, love, respect, humility - those all cease to exist in organized religions. Jesus was anti-establishment, and I am too , flip over those temple tables .

Not revealed by flesh and blood" is the key. No more apostles, no more prophets, no more middlemen, no more flesh and blood. Cursed are they who rely on arms of flesh and blood, cursed are they who rely on other people. (and cursed are those who think others should rely on them)

Self reliance is the rock. No borrowed light. No leaders. Be your own light without being told by others what to do. The kingdom of God is within - NOT following any church leaders, they are not "leaders", they are corrupt biased prideful, fallen, power-hungry misled natural men.

The Kingdom of God is within me as long as I do not use my influence/authority/leadership as a self-reliant Kingdom member to lead?

 

[idea]

The Kingdom of God is within me as long as I do not use my influence/authority/leadership as a self-reliant Kingdom member to lead?

As long as you don't try to control or preach to others, yes . We are all students, we are all teachers. Being "with" others is much better than pushing yourself "in front of" others. Each only has authority over themselves. Have 2-way conversations (equal time listening deeply and talking, not preaching). Allow others to have opinions just as you have your own opinions and interpretations - that is all any of it is.

Judas was an apostle, would you follow him? Doubting Thomas? Apostles couldn't walk on water,, couldn't heal everyone, denied Christ, couldn't stay awake one hour - not reliable people. Jonah ran away... Don't rely on flesh and blood, don't follow apostles or prophets, don't ask others to follow you - we all need to follow our own conscience - we have a conscience for a reason.

No one knows another's situation. Best not to meddle

It really is so much better - for everyone - to be "with" each other.

 

[InChrist]

What if God tells me that the Bible is wrong?

And why would God tell you His word is wrong?

The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever. Psalm 119:160

 

[Subduction Zone]

And why would God tell you His word is wrong?

The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever. Psalm 119:160

What makes you think that the Bible is the "word of God". It is actually rather vague on that matter.

Maybe only parts of it are "God's word". Maybe none of it is. I need to remind you that the Bible was written by man, not by God. How would you test the Bible to see if it is the word of God or not? If all you have is mere belief the odds become huge that you are simply wrong.

 

[BilliardsBall]

As long as you don't try to control or preach to others, yes . We are all students, we are all teachers. Being "with" others is much better than pushing yourself "in front of" others. Each only has authority over themselves. Have 2-way conversations (equal time listening deeply and talking, not preaching). Allow others to have opinions just as you have your own opinions and interpretations - that is all any of it is.

Judas was an apostle, would you follow him? Doubting Thomas? Apostles couldn't walk on water,, couldn't heal everyone, denied Christ, couldn't stay awake one hour - not reliable people. Jonah ran away... Don't rely on flesh and blood, don't follow apostles or prophets, don't ask others to follow you - we all need to follow our own conscience - we have a conscience for a reason.

No one knows another's situation. Best not to meddle

It really is so much better - for everyone - to be "with" each other.

Except for the NT's proscriptions about leaders, leadership, examples and direction.

 

[idea]

Except for the NT's proscriptions about leaders, leadership, examples and direction.

I'll give everyone the same courtesy I do the original apostles and prophets - love them for their humanity, but I won't follow them into any whale bellies . I'll try to stay awake, will visit the empty tomb without being told to go *as Mary did). There really is no borrowed light. We all do what we can to help one another, but in the end, we are responsible for choosing our own path.

Plagiarism vs responsible research - good research uses more than one reference, and includes personal observations and opinions as well. It's good to encourage all to do their own research.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

And why would God tell you His word is wrong?

The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever. Psalm 119:160

Because the men who wrote it were lying?

 

[InChrist]

What makes you think that the Bible is the "word of God". It is actually rather vague on that matter.

Maybe only parts of it are "God's word". Maybe none of it is. I need to remind you that the Bible was written by man, not by God. How would you test the Bible to see if it is the word of God or not? If all you have is mere belief the odds become huge that you are simply wrong.

I can agree with you about this; mere belief is inadequate. Certainly, just believing something without valid reasons or having blind faith could lead to one very easily being wrong.

The Bible is not vague in claiming to be God’s Word. Do you know how many hundreds times the phrases, “Thus says the Lord” or “The word of God” are used throughout the scriptures? Have you researched how extremely meticulous and careful the scribes and copyists were who penned and passed down the manuscripts because they knew they were handling God’s Word? How is it that over 40 authors from different geographical locations could write the books of the Bible, in three languages, from a wide variety of occupations, over a period of fifteen centuries and yet the complete collection of scriptures is cohesive with a unity which is beyond human ability? How much time have you spent investigating the historical, archeological, and prophetic aspects of the scriptures?

I am sure God does not intend humans He created in His image to have a baseless, unreasonable faith.
The Bible can and should be tested for its reliability by anyone who is sincerely serious to know about God and the reliability or accuracy of the Bible. Many have done so and found the evidence which they needed to conclude that the Bible is reliable and of supernatural origin from God, as revelation to His created beings.


“It’s from Professor Robert D. Wilson, Princeton University professor—this is some years ago. He was, you would have to say, at least one of if not the greatest language experts and scholars of all time! He was fluent in more than 40 Semitic languages. “


“The result of those 45 years’ study, which I have given to the text, has been this: I can affirm that there is not a page of the Old Testament concerning which we need have any doubt.

[Now he gives you an example.] “There are 29 ancient kings, whose names are mentioned not only in the Bible but also on monuments. [I mean, there are more kings than that, but these, in his day, they had found 29 of them whose names were mentioned on monuments of their own time.] There are 195 consonants in these 29 proper names. Yet we find that in the documents of the Hebrew Old Testament there are only two or three out of the entire 195 about which there can be any question of their being written in exactly the same way as they were inscribed on their own monuments [which archaeologists have to date discovered]. Some of these go back 4,000 years and are so written that every letter is clear and correct.”

Compare this accuracy with the greatest scholar of his age, the librarian at Alexandria in 200 BC. He compiled a catalogue of the kings of Egypt, 38 in all. Of the entire number, only three or four are recognizable. That is even the names of the kings.] He also made a list of the kings of Assyria; in only one case can we tell who is meant; and that one is not spelled correctly. Or take Ptolemy, who drew up a register of 18 kings of Babylon. Not one of them is properly spelled; you could not make them out at all if you did not know from other sources to what he is referring.

“If anyone talks about the Bible, ask him about the kings mentioned in it. There are 29 kings referred to, and ten different countries among these 29, all of which are included in the Bible and on monuments. Every one of these is given his right name in the Bible, his right country, and placed in correct chronological order, spelled correctly. Think of what that means!”
How Reliable Is the Bible?


“This is from Sir Frederick G. Kenyon, who was one of the great authorities in the field of textual criticism. He writes: “No fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith rests on a disputed reading. It cannot be too strongly asserted that in substance the text of the Bible is certain. Especially is this the case with the New Testament. The number of manuscripts of the New Testament, of early translations from it, of quotations from it, from the oldest writers of the church is so large that it is practically certain that the true reading of every doubtful passage is preserved in some one or other of these ancient authorities. This can be said of no other ancient book in the world.” He goes on: “It is reassuring at the end, to find that the general result of all these discoveries of manuscripts and all this study is to strengthen the proof of the authenticity of the scriptures and our conviction that we have in our hands in substantial integrity, the veritable Word of God.”

How Reliable Is the Bible?