Christianity v. Secular Humanism

[exchemist]

In basic terms, some tenets compared/contrasted. Understand the six points below underpin what "educated" people in the West are taught:

1. We can't know whether or not God exists, so it's up to humans to solve our own problems.
* Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving

2. Research, science, and education hold the keys to human progress.
* Acknowledge God for giving us these tools from the human mind

3. Humans got here through evolution and we continue to evolve.
* Man has a propensity to behave as a degenerate, and needs, therefore, Christian regeneration

4. Humans develop their own moral understanding of right and wrong without the need of divine assistance.
* Babysit children and see this process at work! LOL

5. We should not judge people who arrive at moral conclusions that differ from our own.
* Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues

6. The problems we are facing today require governments throughout the world to work together in cooperation with one another.
* The coming one-world government, like all empires, will be at its root antithetical to God

And 6* wins the prize...........

 

[Secret Chief]

Speedo is a brand! Straight people...

I know it's a brand but not what things they make...in any detail.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not a lot of difference here.

There is a world of difference in the two. For example, a heterosexual secular humanist who is turned off by homosexual sex is not likely to rant about it and tell homosexuals they are going to Hell.
The Christian will often tell the homosexual they are sinful, what they do is an abomination before god, they are going to Hell, and everything they perceive as wrong with it (often made up nonsense such as comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or zoophilia, things found in nature, natural uses and purposes, and other claims that do not match the reality we live in).

 

[ecco]

@BilliardsBall's comments in black
My responses in red...

Understand the six points below underpin what "educated" people in the West are taught:

We are?

1. We can't know whether or not God exists, so it's up to humans to solve our own problems.
* Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving
Only some people believe that. Some of us know that gods are the creation of man's imaginings.

Jesus never solved anything. He couldn't even understand why The Father had forsaken him.

2. Research, science, and education hold the keys to human progress.
* Acknowledge God for giving us these tools from the human mind
Research, science, and education have always been keys to human progress. On the other hand, Judeo/Christianity would have us believe that the type of wood in a hitching post determines the spots on goats. Judeo/Christianity would have us believe that the earth is the center of everything. Judeo/Christianity would have us believe that the earth has existed for only 6000 years.

3. Humans got here through evolution and we continue to evolve.
* Man has a propensity to behave as a degenerate, and needs, therefore, Christian regeneration
Part of man's degeneration can be seen from the actions of the Christians who were inspired by the Bible to persecute Jews. Part of man's degeneration can be seen from the actions of the Christians who were inspired by the Bible to burn mostly young women because they were witches.

4. Humans develop their own moral understanding of right and wrong without the need of divine assistance.
* Babysit children and see this process at work! LOL
Humans have developed moral codes far superior to those specified in the Bible. For example, we do not accept owning slaves as a right. We do not tell soldiers to kill the wives and male children of dead foes and to keep the young virgin girls for themselves.

5. We should not judge people who arrive at moral conclusions that differ from our own.
* Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues
We should harshly judge Christians who use to Bible to conclude that it is moral to own slaves.

6. The problems we are facing today require governments throughout the world to work together in cooperation with one another.
* The coming one-world government, like all empires, will be at its root antithetical to God
Global agreements like the Geneva Convention strive to bring some humanity to even armed conflicts. Sometimes these conventions are ignored by political/religious leaders like Slobodan Milošević. He ignored the Geneva Conventions and was tried for acts against humanity by a Global organization.


The greatest danger now facing humanity and all of "god's creatures" is global warming. No one nation can solve this problem alone. Many self-centered Christians don't care because they believe Christ will return "any day now".

 

[exchemist]

I know it's a brand but not what things they make...in any detail.

Reminds me of that courtroom joke:

Attorney: What gear were you in at the time of the collision?

Defendant: Gucci sweats and Reeboks.

 

[QuestioningMind]

In basic terms, some tenets compared/contrasted. Understand the six points below underpin what "educated" people in the West are taught:

1. We can't know whether or not God exists, so it's up to humans to solve our own problems.
* Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving

2. Research, science, and education hold the keys to human progress.
* Acknowledge God for giving us these tools from the human mind

3. Humans got here through evolution and we continue to evolve.
* Man has a propensity to behave as a degenerate, and needs, therefore, Christian regeneration

4. Humans develop their own moral understanding of right and wrong without the need of divine assistance.
* Babysit children and see this process at work! LOL

5. We should not judge people who arrive at moral conclusions that differ from our own.
* Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues

6. The problems we are facing today require governments throughout the world to work together in cooperation with one another.
* The coming one-world government, like all empires, will be at its root antithetical to God

1. We can't know whether or not God exists, so it's up to humans to solve our own problems.
* Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving

Humans solved the problem of Polio on their own. Please provide an example of a human problem that Jesus Christ has solved.

2. Research, science, and education hold the keys to human progress.
* Acknowledge God for giving us these tools from the human mind

Provide some verifiable evidence that these tools from the human mind were given by some sort of a god entity or that this claimed god entity even exists.

3. Humans got here through evolution and we continue to evolve.
* Man has a propensity to behave as a degenerate, and needs, therefore, Christian regeneration

Provide an example of how Christian regeneration has succeeded in ending degenerate behavior among humans?

4. Humans develop their own moral understanding of right and wrong without the need of divine assistance.
* Babysit children and see this process at work! LOL

I agree, raising children is a good example of how humans develop moral understanding.

5. We should not judge people who arrive at moral conclusions that differ from our own.
* Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues

Non-Christians also should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but should discuss and debate the issue.

6. The problems we are facing today require governments throughout the world to work together in cooperation with one another.
* The coming one-world government, like all empires, will be at its root antithetical to God

How did you come to the conclusion that governments throughout the world are incapable of coming together in cooperation without a one-world government?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We do not tell soldiers to kill the wives and male children of dead foes and to keep the young virgin girls for themselves.

That alone is letting so many of us live long enough now that we see more of what happens to us as we age. Our lifespans really haven't gotten that much longer. But we don't die as children nearly as often, and rather than gods telling us to kill them all we have developed concepts of civilians, collateral damage, international law, and human rights has us consistently living long enough that more than ever we get to die of old age problems amd natural mishaps like heart disease and cancer.

 

[blü 2]

1. We can't know whether or not God exists, so it's up to humans to solve our own problems.
* Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving

Please give me an example of Jesus helping to solve a problem in which Jesus can be shown to contribute more to the solution than (a) belief in Buddhism, (b) no belief at all.

2. Research, science, and education hold the keys to human progress.
* Acknowledge God for giving us these tools from the human mind

But there's no coherent concept of a real "God", and despite all my asking I still can't find an objective test to determine whether my keyboard is God or not.

3. Humans got here through evolution and we continue to evolve.
* Man has a propensity to behave as a degenerate, and needs, therefore, Christian regeneration

I have no argument that some believers do a lot of good for their societies, though the same is true of nonbelievers. But it's been the Christian churches mainly at fault in the endless horrific disclosures of child sexual abuse over the past three decades ─ so I don't think Christianity is in a stronger position than anyone else to decry "degenerate behavior".

4. Humans develop their own moral understanding of right and wrong without the need of divine assistance.
* Babysit children and see this process at work! LOL

We raised our three children "without the need of divine assistance". LOL right back at ya. Humans have evolved to be born with certain moral tendencies, and a conscience, and a capacity for empathy, none of which is dependent on belief.

5. We should not judge people who arrive at moral conclusions that differ from our own.
* Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues

If you want to talk about sex, say so. If you want to talk about terrorism or exploitation or economic and social inequality, how do your views differ from Western nonbelievers'?

6. The problems we are facing today require governments throughout the world to work together in cooperation with one another.
* The coming one-world government, like all empires, will be at its root antithetical to God

Governments have their place ─ they provide education and welfare and health care and sanitation and the other basics of civilization on a scale that charity (Christian or not) can only dream of.

But I see no prospect of a single world government any time soon. Have you been reading that apocalyptic nonsense again? ─ the coming of the Son of Man was promised to happen in the lifetime of people living some 2000 years ago, so I suggest you don't hold your breath.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There is a world of difference in the two. For example, a heterosexual secular humanist who is turned off by homosexual sex is not likely to rant about it and tell homosexuals they are going to Hell.
The Christian will often tell the homosexual they are sinful, what they do is an abomination before god, they are going to Hell, and everything they perceive as wrong with it (often made up nonsense such as comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or zoophilia, things found in nature, natural uses and purposes, and other claims that do not match the reality we live in).

Ranting wasn't mentioned, discussion was, even if in practice the differences weren't actually depicted as being so. Hence the laughing frubal.

 

[ecco]

Another post and run?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Another post and run?

As soon I have received serious responses, I'll make a serious reply.

The bulk of the responses come from humanists drenched in the indoctrination I've spoken of.

 

[ecco]

As soon I have received serious responses, I'll make a serious reply.

Ah, I see. The only thing you consider "serious responses" are those that agree with your religiously indoctrinated worldview. Perhaps you should post only in religious DIRs.

The bulk of the responses come from humanists drenched in the indoctrination I've spoken of.

Apparently you do not understand the difference between being soaked in religiosity from birth (indoctrination) to learning about living without a magic man in the sky while in high school or college (education).

in·doc·tri·na·tion
/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/
noun

1. the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
   "I would never subject children to religious indoctrination"

ed·u·ca·tion
/ˌejəˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   the process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, especially at a school or university.
   "a new system of public education"
2. 2.
   an enlightening experience.
   "a day with those kids was an education in patience and forbearance"

 

[Mock Turtle]

As soon I have received serious responses, I'll make a serious reply.

The bulk of the responses come from humanists drenched in the indoctrination I've spoken of.

AKA common sense?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In basic terms, some tenets compared/contrasted. Understand the six points below underpin what "educated" people in the West are taught:

1. We can't know whether or not God exists, so it's up to humans to solve our own problems.
* Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving

2. Research, science, and education hold the keys to human progress.
* Acknowledge God for giving us these tools from the human mind

3. Humans got here through evolution and we continue to evolve.
* Man has a propensity to behave as a degenerate, and needs, therefore, Christian regeneration

4. Humans develop their own moral understanding of right and wrong without the need of divine assistance.
* Babysit children and see this process at work! LOL

5. We should not judge people who arrive at moral conclusions that differ from our own.
* Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues

6. The problems we are facing today require governments throughout the world to work together in cooperation with one another.
* The coming one-world government, like all empires, will be at its root antithetical to God

I think you did a fantastic job at showing how christianity is actually a gigantic guilt trip and how it tries to enforce itself on people by making them feel guilty, bad and by putting them down.

When an ideal can only be raised up by pushing everything else down, then that is a clear sign that it is nothing but psychological poison.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I think you did a fantastic job at showing how christianity is actually a gigantic guilt trip and how it tries to enforce itself on people by making them feel guilty, bad and by putting them down.

When an ideal can only be raised up by pushing everything else down, then that is a clear sign that it is nothing but psychological poison.

How did you read this as a guilt trip? "Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving" or "Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues"?

If you experience guilt reading the post, it shows the natural conviction we have as sinners toward the righteousness of God.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Ah, I see. The only thing you consider "serious responses" are those that agree with your religiously indoctrinated worldview. Perhaps you should post only in religious DIRs.




Apparently you do not understand the difference between being soaked in religiosity from birth (indoctrination) to learning about living without a magic man in the sky while in high school or college (education).

in·doc·tri·na·tion
/inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/
noun

1. the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
   "I would never subject children to religious indoctrination"

ed·u·ca·tion
/ˌejəˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   the process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, especially at a school or university.
   "a new system of public education"
2. 2.
   an enlightening experience.
   "a day with those kids was an education in patience and forbearance"

I'm a Jew who trusted Jesus for salvation, so I went against religious indoctrination, via logic, the realization of Jesus's love, and the realization of fulfilled Bible prophecy/God's omniscience.

You also have posted modern (secular humanist) definitions of indoctrination and education, forgetting that for a millennia, all western and eastern education through the highest levels of university was rooted in religion.

 

[BilliardsBall]

AKA common sense?

How does common sense lead people to do incredibly stupid things? It must be that common sense (God consciousness) conflicts with our moral will (propensity to sin).

Unless you can show me from the lives of famous secular humanists that they were morally superior. Their LIVES not their doctrines.

 

[Mock Turtle]

How does common sense lead people to do incredibly stupid things? It must be that common sense (God consciousness) conflicts with our moral will (propensity to sin).

Unless you can show me from the lives of famous secular humanists that they were morally superior. Their LIVES not their doctrines.

Why not ask all those who believe in the words of texts written so long ago but apparently are accurate for all time - even if they do need deciphering every now and then so as to make better sense.

If one omits religions, then one might get to the heart of the matter.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How did you read this as a guilt trip? "Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving" or "Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues"?

If you experience guilt reading the post, it shows the natural conviction we have as sinners toward the righteousness of God.

Funny. In your post where you ask how it's a guilt trip, you simply continue on the same guilt trip. Note the bold. You just declare humans are "sinners". ie: humans are "bad". Rotten to the core. In need of fixing. Guilty for being "human".

Christianity in that sense is like a snake oil salesman...
First, you try to convince people that they are "broken" and then you conveniently offer the only "fix".
Typical con-man strategy.


As for your question, let's review your list, shall we?



1. We can't know whether or not God exists, so it's up to humans to solve our own problems.
* Jesus Christ is source and power for problem solving

==> this is implying humans are incapable of solving their problems. They aren't smart enough or whatever. Humans are thus "dumb" or whatever.



2. Research, science, and education hold the keys to human progress.
* Acknowledge God for giving us these tools from the human mind

==> not so much a guilt trip here, but it does provide a basis to be against education and science. So it's part of the anti-intellectual underpinnings of it all. This is required to make people stop thinking and to not trust "intellectuals" and science. This off course in turn helps to convince them that they are "broken" and that christianity is the "fix". Keeping people ignorant is another page in the con-man playbook.


3. Humans got here through evolution and we continue to evolve.
* Man has a propensity to behave as a degenerate, and needs, therefore, Christian regeneration

==> literally, you're declaring humans are "degenerates". Rotten to the core. Again, "broken" and in need of "fixing". No argumentation, no evidence, no proper reasoning. Just declarations. Part of the attempt to convince people that they are "broken" and in need of "fixing".


4. Humans develop their own moral understanding of right and wrong without the need of divine assistance.
* Babysit children and see this process at work! LOL


==> Implying that humans are incapable of making good moral judgements and evaluations. All part of the bigger scheme of trying to make people believe that they are "degenerates" and thus "broken" and in need of "fixing".


5. We should not judge people who arrive at moral conclusions that differ from our own.
* Christians should not judge people with different moral conclusions, but we can discuss and debate the issues

==> first of all, this is a misrepresentation. I have no clue where you got the idea that we shouldn't judge people who arrive at a different "moral conclusion". I hate to invoke a cliché, but Hitler arrived at "different moral conclusions" concerning the treatment of Jews. Are you of the opinion that nobody judged him for it?
What planet do you live on?


6. The problems we are facing today require governments throughout the world to work together in cooperation with one another.
* The coming one-world government, like all empires, will be at its root antithetical to God

==> More declarations about how rotten humans are.





Your entire post did nothing but try to badmouth humans and put them down, pretending as if only Christianity is then able to lift them up.

It's ridiculously obvious to anyone who's familiar with stereotypical con-man / snake oil strategies.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How does common sense lead people to do incredibly stupid things?

Simple ignorance.


What is "common sense"?
Common sense starts from common knowledge. That which you know, or think to know.

Before Einstein, it was common sense that speed won't affect the flow of time.
Before quantum mechanics, it was common sense that an object can't be detected "here" while being measured "there".
Before heliocentrism was figured out, it was common sense that the earth was stationary and that the sun orbitted it.



It's not hard how common sense can lead people to do stupid things. All it takes is some ignorance.

Unless you can show me from the lives of famous secular humanists that they were morally superior. Their LIVES not their doctrines.

Anyone who does good only for the sake of doing good instead of for the reward (in heaven) or out of fear of punishment (in hell), is morally superior to those who do it for the reward or out of fear.

Doing good because you feel like some perceived authority demands you to, is not moral behavior. Instead, that's just being obedient and doing what you believe you are commanded to do.

"divine morality" is actually moral bankruptcy as result.