Christianity v. Secular Humanism

[BilliardsBall]

LOL! Seriously dude, there are just as many Christians that do the same. They merely claim that they get it from the
Bible. And based on logical and humane reasoning secular logic beats Christian morality for superiority. You really should not complain about the reasoning of others when you fail to understand secular morality yourself.

We all have our own moral systems, yes.

Bible study has affected my moral compass.

As described, secular atheists have committed atrocities while having logic.

"Humane reasoning" is not correct of you to say, you are describing accepting "humane" as axiomatically moral, it is not.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Except that there are many a Christian who engage in those activities.
Please keep your no true scotsman nonsense for someone who might fall for it.


Do you expect it from Christians?

You are not arguing against what I wrote. A born again Christian knows adultery is wrong and porn viewing is wrong--it is the secularist who says these things and perhaps all things are moral or amoral or permissible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So what is the "excuse" for atheists being good?

First define "good". What definition are you using? Where do your notions of "good" and "bad" come from? Those sound like metaphysical/religious designations to me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We all have our own moral systems, yes.

Bible study has affected my moral compass.

As described, secular atheists have committed atrocities while having logic.

"Humane reasoning" is not correct of you to say, you are describing accepting "humane" as axiomatically moral, it is not.

And Bible loving Christians have committed atrocities while using emotion.

Humane reasoning is demonstrably far more moral. One simple example, the Bible supports, it does not oppose slavery. Slavery that is almost the same as chattel slavery in the Old South. At the time that slavery was finally abolished the country was still a huge majority Christian, but those Christians relied on secular morality to end slavery since reasons in the Bible did not exist.

If you are really interested in the topic here is a half an hour long talk on why secular morality is superior to religious morality:

 

[McBell]

First define "good". What definition are you using? Where do your notions of "good" and "bad" come from? Those sound like metaphysical/religious designations to me.

ROTFLMAO

You should do stand up.

 

[BilliardsBall]

And Bible loving Christians have committed atrocities while using emotion.

Humane reasoning is demonstrably far more moral. One simple example, the Bible supports, it does not oppose slavery. Slavery that is almost the same as chattel slavery in the Old South. At the time that slavery was finally abolished the country was still a huge majority Christian, but those Christians relied on secular morality to end slavery since reasons in the Bible did not exist.

If you are really interested in the topic here is a half an hour long talk on why secular morality is superior to religious morality:

I'm really interested in this topic.

Secular morality (arguably) frequently goes against evolutionary imperatives.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm really interested in this topic.

Secular morality (arguably) frequently goes against evolutionary imperatives.

Really? What "evolutionary imperatives" are those?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Really? What "evolutionary imperatives" are those?

Survival of the species/use the weak/subjugate the weak.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Survival of the species/use the weak/subjugate the weak.

That is not an evolutionary imperative. Have you had your coffee yet?

 

[night912]

You have redacted my moral thought process to cultic, suppressive thought. I have had many influences on my morality, politics, religion, etc.

By demonizing me as your argument opponent, you are losing the chance to learn from me. But I want to learn from you. May I ask you some questions?

Is human slavery sometimes evil or always evil? If always, do you accept absolute morals and their creator? How could absolute morals exist, that haven’t evolved over time, without a moral creator rather than moral evolution?

If we’re evolved animals without souls, why do you eat eggs from chickens treated “inhumanely”? Why do you eat beef or pork from animals that are treated worse than human slaves?

I can give you a very thorough defense/apologetic for Bible slavery, but I'd like to know your answers to the above, so we aren't bogged down in a few verses of a book you don't believe in, containing myths you think never occurred. It's like reproving the morality of Dune or LOTR, to you, or Game of Thrones, perhaps. All fictional, yes?

Do you think that it's immoral for a person to own another person as property, like in an episode of Roots? It doesn't matter if I believe in the bible or not, you believe that biblical slavery is not immoral, and you get your morals from the teachings of the bible. So let's hear your defense as to why slavery is not immoral.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you think that it's immoral for a person to own another person as property, like in an episode of Roots? It doesn't matter if I believe in the bible or not, you believe that biblical slavery is not immoral, and you get your morals from the teachings of the bible. So let's hear your defense as to why slavery is not immoral.

I would not make such a defense.

 

[McBell]

I would not make such a defense.

Wait, what....
Are you saying that slavery is immoral?
If so, where did you get that moral from?
Sure wasn't the Bible.
Cause if your morality came from the Bible, you would think slavery is moral.

Rather interesting corner you have painted yourself into.

 

[night912]

I would not make such a defense.

Mestemia beat me to it.

But just in case you try to argue that biblical slavery is not an episode of Roots, post #87 already answered it. Bible defenders can throw the idea of indentured servitude and defend it all they want, but they cannot deny the fact that onee type of slavery, chattel slavery(the same kind of slavery seen in an episode of Roots), is not considered to be immoral according to biblical morality. Biblical morality that is taught in the bible was clearly shown that some form of killings (murder) are immoral. Biblical morality that is taught in the bible was clearly shown that no form of slavery is immoral.

There are more capital punishment laws for slave owners in the Bible than any other class of person!

Obviously, according to the bible, it's an immoral act when a person violates one of those laws. It's just wasn't immoral for a human being to own another human being as property.

Know a lot of people whose morals, like yours, are rooted in the Bible (don't murder, don't divorce) but claim they arrived at them via secular humanistic logic?

So apparently you do believe their claim to be true. You've just shown that it is possible that morals can arrive from a source not of the creator.

Poor Kunta Kinte. Borned as a freed human being, was forced to become the slave named Toby,

Sorry, slavery indentured servitude, remained as one well pass six years, finally free from slavery upon his death, being the freed human being named Kunta Kinte.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Wait, what....
Are you saying that slavery is immoral?
If so, where did you get that moral from?
Sure wasn't the Bible.
Cause if your morality came from the Bible, you would think slavery is moral.

Rather interesting corner you have painted yourself into.

How so? Your moral compass is "whatever I feel is moral". You have no right to judge my compass, or anyone's else's including your own.

I "feel" the Bible says slavery is immoral. You see how this works?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Mestemia beat me to it.

But just in case you try to argue that biblical slavery is not an episode of Roots, post #87 already answered it. Bible defenders can throw the idea of indentured servitude and defend it all they want, but they cannot deny the fact that onee type of slavery, chattel slavery(the same kind of slavery seen in an episode of Roots), is not considered to be immoral according to biblical morality. Biblical morality that is taught in the bible was clearly shown that some form of killings (murder) are immoral. Biblical morality that is taught in the bible was clearly shown that no form of slavery is immoral.

Obviously, according to the bible, it's an immoral act when a person violates one of those laws. It's just wasn't immoral for a human being to own another human being as property.


So apparently you do believe their claim to be true. You've just shown that it is possible that morals can arrive from a source not of the creator.

[images snipped]

Sorry, slavery indentured servitude, remained as one well pass six years, finally free from slavery upon his death, being the freed human being named Kunta Kinte.

I'm not sure what your point is, we both agree that all people have personal, subjective moral systems.

If you want to attack the Bible's moral system, you first have to agree with me that it contains consistent, absolute (non-subjective) morals.

 

[McBell]

How so? Your moral compass is "whatever I feel is moral".

So is yours.
So what?

You have no right to judge my compass, or anyone's else's including your own.

You have no right to dictate to me who I may and may not judge or what I may and may not judge. See how this works?

I "feel" the Bible says slavery is immoral.

Thus showing that truth and fact mean absolutely nothing to you if they go against what you feel.

 

[McBell]

If you want to attack the Bible's moral system, you first have to agree with me that it contains consistent, absolute (non-subjective) morals.

The whole slavery thing shows that the Bible does NOT contain consistent, absolute (non-subjective) morals.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So is yours.
So what?


You have no right to dictate to me who I may and may not judge or what I may and may not judge. See how this works?


Thus showing that truth and fact mean absolutely nothing to you if they go against what you feel.

If I've "no right dictate to you who I may and may not judge or what I may and may not judge", then why did you send me that statement, telling me what to do and judging me?

 

[BilliardsBall]

The whole slavery thing shows that the Bible does NOT contain consistent, absolute (non-subjective) morals.

Of course it does. You can read more about Bible slavery here: http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslave.html

 

[SkepticThinker]

Of course it does. You can read more about Bible slavery here: http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslave.html

How many slaves do you own?