Jesus making all things new is a reference to a sinless world.
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Christianity vs Baha'i
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Jesus making all things new is a reference to a sinless world.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
No way, thats not biblical interpretation.
What else was Jesus referring to?
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
He is literally referring to making a new humanity. Creating a new man. Creating new heaven and new earth. A new Jerusalem coming down.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Only in John. Why not in the synoptics?
He said it in different ways there.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
He didn't even want the apostles to tell people who did his miracles in Mark. By John, he's tooting his own horn. The stories became different as time went on. John is beautiful and symbolic, but doesn't line up with the other gospels, especially Mark.
Do my format errors confuse you? Im confused if you would understand in both quotes, / in neither, or some combination? I think the way I word things makes my comments confusing to you.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
No, Jerusalem is a symbol. It means Religion of God. So, a new Jerusalem means a new Religion.
The gospel writers had different writing styles.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Anyone can write a story that has multiple witnesses in it, but that does not make it a true story.
Anyone can believe anything happened, that is the nature of beliefs.
But without evidence, it is just a belief.
Then why don't all courts of law agree?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, Baha'is do not believe that the words of Jesus will ever pass away, because Jesus said:
Matthew 24:35
King James Version
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Revelation 21 New Heaven and New Earth
King James Version (KJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
I believe those verses above pertain to the new Law of God, sent down from God out of heaven. Law of God refers to the Revelation of God. It is also interesting to note that Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof is where Baha'u'llah appeared and pitched His tent, and it is also where the Baha'i World Centre is located, atop Mt. Carmel
“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Meditate upon this, O ye beloved of God, and let your ears be attentive unto His Word, so that ye may, by His grace and mercy, drink your fill from the crystal waters of constancy, and become as steadfast and immovable as the mountain in His Cause.
In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself. This same verse is followed by these words: “And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that Day.” This is the Day which the Pen of the Most High hath glorified in all the holy Scriptures. There is no verse in them that doth not declare the glory of His holy Name, and no Book that doth not testify unto the loftiness of this most exalted theme. Were We to make mention of all that hath been revealed in these heavenly Books and holy Scriptures concerning this Revelation, this Tablet would assume impossible dimensions. It is incumbent in this Day, upon every man to place his whole trust in the manifold bounties of God, and arise to disseminate, with the utmost wisdom, the verities of His Cause. Then, and only then, will the whole earth be enveloped with the morning light of His Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-14
Revelation 21 (cont.)
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
The verses above are symbolic of the Glory of the new City of God. Baha’u’llah explained the meaning of City of God:
“They that valiantly labor in quest of God, will, when once they have renounced all else but Him, be so attached and wedded unto that City, that a moment’s separation from it would to them be unthinkable. They will hearken unto infallible proofs from the Hyacinth of that assembly, and will receive the surest testimonies from the beauty of its Rose, and the melody of its Nightingale. Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned….
That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 269-270
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
The way I interpret those verses above, Baha’u’llah was the Glory of God and the light of the Lamb Jesus was the temple and light that lightened the city.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Maybe that is true, but that does not mean there was no need for any more assistance from God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
But it does not mean that they are not, although Baha'is do not believe that Mormonism is from God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, because the same man Jesus never promised to return, but there is proof that Christ returned.
Thief in the Night by William Sears
Jesus told his apostles that he was going to return. John 21:22 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Bahai like Mormonism adds to the Bible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Till I come where? Jesus was talking to His apostles about what was going on in the present, not what was going to happen in the future.
Nice try, but that chapter is not about the return of Jesus to earth, but this chapter is about Jesus not returning to earth:
John 17 King James Version (KJV)
17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.